Eric W
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Posts posted by Eric W
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Probably was the same one. Only original for '50-'52 I've seen in months on ebay. The auction ended at a little lower price than that, but with shipping, total was more. Seller said he'd had it pressure tested, and it didn't look like it had ever been worked on. (In my search, I've seen what a re-re-repaired one looks like.) So even if it's not the long-term answer, I'll have it for possible use as a pattern for a new one.
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Been out of town for the past week. But where there's internet... Can "get stuff" done on the car.
Scored this on eBay. I had pretty much given up with originality here & had collected dimensions to just get one made...
The other cooling related parts they were selling from this car looked really good (saw inside the t-stat housing, etc.).
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Just looking around - saw a '36 water pump for sale in the "Buy/Sell" section of the forum for $50. Don't know if it's for the engine in your car...
http://forums.aaca.org/f117/1936-buick-water-pump-century-roadmaster-372804.html
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Miss E -
I just clicked on the ad that happened to be on the top of the forum page at the moment - Kanter. Which was what I was looking for anyway.
They have the water pump. Actually, they have 2 for the 1937's. One for the "smaller" car, one for the "larger" car. These are rebuilt pumps, but there isn't any new production for these things anyway. $179 for one, $170 for the other. So not too bad if it is the pump that needs to be swapped out. It appears as though they require your old pump as exchange, and if the old pump is too far damaged, they charge another $125. (If you got into that situation, you might find an acceptable part to exchange with them for less on ebay.)
One thing that comes up a lot for a new owner is to get a copy of the factory shop manual for your car. Since my cars are from the '50's, those manuals are on ebay all the time - either dead-tree edition or .pdf's on cd. The '37 shop manual looks fairly easily available as well. It should have detailed instructions on how to replace the water pump.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1937-BUICK-SHOP-MANUAL-SHOP-MANUAL-MAINTENANCE-BOOK-ROADMASTER-ETC-/231234869900?pt=Motors_Manuals_Literature&hash=item35d6ac1a8c&vxp=mtr#ht_359wt_1102 - here's the "dead tree" edition for $25.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1937-1938-1939-1940-Buick-Mechanic-Workshop-Service-Repair-Manual-CD-Factory-OE-/400443669411?pt=Motors_Manuals_Literature&hash=item5d3c4d7ba3&vxp=mtr#ht_1181wt_1102 - here's a cd for $26.10 (sale ends soon)
Note - I didn't even scan down all the results. There may be deals that you like better - lower price/better condition, free shipping, etc.
Searched "1937 Buick Manual"
Also see the "pre war" section of the forum for more specialized advice/help.
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I think the tape is out of the path of any motion that might be needed between the end of the spring and the spring rubber. I'd rather have the spring rubber in there with a little tape than to not have it in there and find out how much extra noise that might make!
Good luck Alain with springs if you try them. Once you get over that you are releasing ~1/4 of the car's weight by letting the jack down, it's an orderly sequence of steps to be sure the spring energy stays controlled.
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I used the shop manual instructions. There is a section on changing the springs.
The key item from the shop manual instructions is to remove the lower upright bolt.
By removing this bolt and not the upper, the alignment settings are not changed
(other than whatever results from the car sitting higher).
General order:
Crack loose wheel nuts.
Put car on jack stands.
Remove front wheel.
Remove shock. Can access top of shock through wheel well.
Disconnect sway bar link. If you forget this, the sway bar will prevent the A-arm from swinging down.
Put jack under the A-arm to hold the spring force. You might see the upper A-arm come off the stop.
In this configuration, the only weight on the lower upright bolt is the weight of the upper arm, upright & brake.
Balance the jack position under the a-arm against the upper a-arm sitting on the stop to have little/no load on the lower upright bolt.
If there is load on the bolt, it's a LOT harder to turn. I think I went slightly high with the lower a-arm and lifted up on the brake drum to unload the bolt.
On one end of the lower upright bolt is a nut. I think this really just acts as a jam nut, because the A-arm fork is threaded.
(I say on one end, because on my car, the bolt was threaded in from the front on one side, from the rear on the other side. I just put it back the way I found it, though the book might say which way is "correct".)
Remove the lower upright bolt. Only takes about a million turns. There should be seals between the upright & A-arm fork ends on both the forward and rear side of the upright.
Lower the jack until the spring falls out. If the spring doesn't fall out, the car wasn't high enough. Now you need another jack to lift the car higher...
Putting a spring IN:
Bolt seals -
The shop manual says to stretch the seals around the A-arm fork ends such that the seals can be brought into position after the bolt is installed.
I only did this on the end of the bolt away from the head of the bolt. At the head end, I slipped the seal between the a-arm fork and the upright before installing the bolt because you can lean on the upright a little to make space for the seal.
On the other end of the bolt, slip the seal into position BEFORE driving the bolt all the way in. Move the seal to its final spot when the bolt is just a little into the a-arm.
That way, you don't have to stretch the seal as much.
Spring -
There's a rubber "seat" at the top of the spring. It might fall out, or it might stay in the spring pocket.
On my car, one of these seats fell out, and it didn't stay in position when I put the replacement spring in. Of course I found this after getting it all back together and was ready to put the shock back in and the spring seat rubber was in the way.
So on the 2nd try I taped the spring seat rubber to the spring so it would stay approximately in position above the spring. Not sure what happens to the tape in there, but I'm not worrying about a little tape.
Raise the a-arm back up with a new spring in place. Watch the clocking of the spring. The cut end of the spring goes down, into a "pocket" in the lower A-arm.
The top end of the spring is ground (tapered).
The spring will probably shift around some on the A-arm "spring pocket". I found it will tend to fall outwards, but raising the A-arm higher, it settles (pops) back into position.
When a-arm is high enough, reinstall the lower upright bolt. Now if the jack lets go, the spring isn't going anywhere.
Slip the nut-end seal into position before socking the bolt all the way down.
Finish tightening the lower a-arm bolt.
Install the jam nut on this bolt.
Reconnect the sway bar link.
Install the shock.
Install the wheel.
Lower car off the jack & jack stand.
I only replaced the springs, but you might want to replace the spring seat rubber and the lower bolt seals.
Other related parts in the area that you are accessing at the same time include the shock and sway bar end links.
You could replace these as well, if the car needs them.
Online sources for springs? I don't know. For my car, Willie had some I could use.
It's looking like another forum member has some "pre-owned" for the rears that I will try. They're not exact for this model, but they're only 100lbs (total car weight rating) off.
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No time to get farther with starting, but finished off & installed the coil bracket:
Baby grand piano, all aluminum. Engine attach holes on the right, new coil mount holes rotated 90 on the left.
1x1x.125 angle, riveted. The extra holes in the angle are from a previous project that I recycled the angle from. Though those look like "pop" rivets, they're not. They are 3/16" SST, and I'd challenge anyone to get them pulled using the usual puny pop rivet hand tool. I forget the rating, but it's hundreds of pounds each rivet in tension and shear - should be plenty for the coil.
The "blade" has to step out from the engine a little due to clips & nuts on the engine side cover.
Vertical-mounted coil.
It gets a little tight where the wires pass under the wire cover.
Ensure there is clearance between the 6v output from the distributor and the coil. That terminal on the distributor is switched ground (and not insulated), and the coil case is ground. Might not hurt anything if they touch, but the spark would stop.
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Yes, that tube location looks to be the most likely based on photos of another car and the shape of the clamp & tube found on my car. Not sure how much that contributes to a fuel vapor problem.
Over the past weekend:
- Found a short & open in the ignition coil. Got a new coil.
- Found the low side (switched) power through the points wasn't getting through. Cleaned points. Now power gets through to the coil.
- Changed the spark plugs. Thought that maybe for an instant there the engine cranked faster as though a cylinder or 2 fired. But still no start.
- Working on a bracket for the coil. Per what's on the engine, the coil lays down on its side. This can lead to uneven cooling due to the unfilled volume inside the coil allowing a hot area along the side of the coil. Bracket will mount coil terminals-up. Simple bolt-on bracket, quickly reversible if originality in this area is ever needed.
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Yes, much better. Also included your recommended shocks. I'll get some proper non-torched springs in the rear as well. Right now the front is pretty plush, but the rear still needs work.
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Not mine. Ad says Century, but I only see 3 port holes. Anyway, it's a factory AC car. Part out the AC & have a 2dr HT for practically nothing...
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Fun of forum posting. It won't let me delete the "attached thumbnails" which are different pictures, but essentially the same as a couple within the post itself. And there's a limit of 20 items per post, which appears to extend to additional posts within a certain timeframe that contain additional embedded/attached items. Anyway, after this expires, I'll add a couple of photos of my car at the show, with the new ride height (raised ~3 - 3 1/2" in the front, ~1" higher in the rear).
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Thanks to Mike & Mike for the jump at the cruise night last night. I'll need to work on those battery connections again, and maybe the starter. Anyway, here's some photos from the big show last week:
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Hose details:
Edelmann #123500 5/16" Union (2)
Edelmann #821560 5/16" x 3/8" (Invert flare to hose nipple) (2)
Short length of 3/8" hose
2 worm clamps.
Top hose is the original broken off. It's 1/4" fuel line. Middle hose is made with the hardware-store 1/4-20 NPT to 5/16" hose fittings. These thread onto the reverse flare, but don't seal. The bottom hose is the one that works using 3/8" hose.
Installed looking up from below.
Looking straight up the side of the engine.
Looking down from the top.
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Got the short fuel hose made up w/ parts from the FLAPS. Will post pics & part numbers soon.
Tested the fuel system. Added 2 gallons of gas to the tank. Ran the electric pump. Sound changed (maybe pitch, not so much volume), so I figured that might mean fuel at the carb. It didn't. Ran pump some more. When fuel got to the carb & the float shut the flow, the pump got much quieter. Slight fuel seep at the carb, but no immediately obvious leaks in the line from tank to carb.
Tried starting (with some engine start spray). No good. Battery may have run down some.
Put battery back on charger.
Plan to clean the ignition points & double check that the plug wires are in the right order. I had pulled these off for cleaning, with everything labeled, but...
If that doesn't do it, going from low cost to more expensive would be: points, condenser, coil.
Then maybe plug wires & plugs.
Then rebuild starter. Any ideas?
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Quick update - aside from making the weekly cruise night pretty much every week, I had the car at a 500+ car show last weekend. Will add photos soon. Buicks of note: There was a '59 in a funky custom style, Mike & Mike's convertible, a GS (maybe '70 or so), and my '55.
The '55 has had difficulty starting lately. Takes many hits on the starter before it catches. I got it to the show & back without diving into diagnosis. Day before yesterday, I got it figured out. Checked battery: 12.85V. Good. Got car started - checked voltage at high idle: 13.8V. Good. Next thing I had in mind was to pull the starter. First step of that - disconnect battery. Positive post looked a little crusty - not on the side you could see, but between the post and the clamp. So I cleaned that up & reconnected. Starts good now.
But it did drive me to research the engine. This car was converted to Chevy 350 before I got it. So I found the engine number & decoded it. It's a 1974. So at least now if/when it does need a starter (or something else), I know what to look for.
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Good to meet you, Mike & Mike at the big show on Saturday. Here are the threads for my cars in Tucson:
http://forums.aaca.org/f163/rescue-me-51-41d-356199.html - '51
http://forums.aaca.org/f163/55-special-runner-349933.html - '55
I usually have the '55 out to the Thursday cruise night @ Freddy's. There's a '55 station wagon that is often there. There's a '55 Century & '60 convertible (see my gallery photos) that have been there a couple of times.
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When I asked at the FLAPS about a flare tool, they pointed me to a rack of pre-made tubes. For $5.49, it comes with both ends flared with the fittings all ready to go. Couple of minutes with the bender.
The story on getting the hose made locally isn't going so well. I went to the hose place that was recommended. They looked it over & concluded they didn't have that type of fitting. They recommended another auto parts supply place.
Those guys figured they could get something together, but it would require more parts than if I had end fittings just crimped on. So they recommended a 3rd place. This looked like a real old-school hose maker. No real office, just a garage bay next to a repair shop that was nothing but shelf after shelf of fittings. The guy wasn't there when I got there, but the shop next door said he'd be back. So I waited. Not too frustratingly long.
It was kind of entertaining to see a fool down the street playing with their race car in the parking lot. The guys at the shop I was waiting at figured the cops would arrive momentarily. The guy was doing burnouts & donuts, with much noise & smoke. The hose-maker guy showed up. I showed him what I had & he concluded that within his million vintage parts, he couldn't make this thing either. He recommended a simple part from the hardware store (1/4-20 NPT to 5/16 hose nipple). Sounds good, so I went over there & got 2 of those. I put the piece of 5/16 fuel line between them, then put this hose under the car.
Problem is, 1/4-20 NPT, though it threads onto a 5/16 double-flare nut (same or close-enough thread), it does NOT bottom out or seal to the double-flare. The threads engage and tighten, but the nut on the tube is just rattling around, nowhere close to being sealed.
I think it's back to the 2nd place's idea - 5/16 double flare union to a NPT-hose nipple part. Though this sounds like a round-about PITA way to get this done (since CARS, Inc sells a "jumper hose"), I don't want to go with their hose because if the length is wrong it either won't reach or it will be kinked.
So I'm going to give make-it-myself one more try.
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Nice idea on the hood prop. I'll have to try that if I ever get that far. I was at a show this past weekend with ~500 cars. Not a single one of this vintage Buick. One thing I've wanted to try with the '51 at a show is to open the hood from the other side every hour or so & see if anyone notices...
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I will check exactly what is on my car. I believe they are 7", with 225/70R15 tires. They will rub behind the axle with the steering turned all the way. Just don't turn the steering wheel that far. Rear has the same. No issues there at all.
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Got the answer to my question (see photos in post #64) - added the clamp to the fuel/breather tubes at the oil pan. Only took about 1/2 hour for that one bolt. Get the bolt through both ends of the clamp (battle #1), then get it straight enough to line up with anything (battle #2), then shift the clamp around until the bolt has a chance of finding the hole (battle #3), then crank on it until it catches the hole - not so tough, but working underneath the car I was about to give up. Anyway, here's my interpretation of how this is supposed to look:
Bottom looking up, oil pan at top of photo. Removed & cleaned off 1 oil pan bolt to match for size to get a replacement bolt at the clamp location.
Top looking down, front of car to the right.
Small gap to the frame-mounted tube. Put a small angle bend near the back of the engine-mounted tube to get the fitting off the breather tube. The original tube has this as well.
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Robert,
Your post gave me just the idea on how to do this myself with cheap locally-available parts.
To wrap up this thread w/ my solution, see post #171 over here:
http://forums.aaca.org/f163/rescue-me-51-41d-356199-7.html
Easy answer - re-make the hard-tube portion with a bend-it-yourself tube for $5.49 at the FLAPS. Comes with the end fittings already flared, so it's a pretty quick, easy job. Then just get the little jumper hose. Either what CARS sells, or I can get this made locally. And if I'm ever inspired to have the original duplicated, it hasn't been altered (other than the hose crumbled), for an operation such as Inline Tube to duplicate.
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Got the reverse light going. Had to make a new gasket for the lens. Sure, they are available, but I had some 1/16" gasket sheet stock & cut 2 for more or less the needed thickness to have it put back together for now.
Got the horn relay in - and now the + supply from the horn ring is out. It was working the other day (when the fault was isolated to the relay). Figure that out later.
On another thread I started in Post War for the fuel tube, Robert's picture gave me an idea. Not sure if he re-made the hard tube along the lower side of the engine to the fuel pump, but it looked like it. I measured that hard tube at ~18" long. They sell 20" at the FLAPS, and maybe I can "hide" the extra length. Saves messing with a flare tool, and the tube is only $5.49+tax.
I will get the little hose made up locally. I asked the guy at the FLAPS, and he recommended the same place where I've had hoses made before.
Tube to be duplicated (top, hose broken off). Blue tape is clamp location. My copy below.
Trick to taking up the extra length - the out-of-plane bends.
The extra bends hide neatly next to the breather tube (breather tube is hanging low, out of position - clamp to oil pan not yet installed).
Back end of the tube - tube in lower left is the frame-mounted fuel line. Now just get a little jumper hose made up...
I still have the original tube/hose in case I'm ever inspired to have it duplicated (I didn't resort to my plan b - cut off the hose from the original tube/hose, cut off the nut from the frame-mounted tube and just slip some hose over both with worm clamps...)
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I figured there was a tilt switch in there somewhere. I had the trunk lid full open when checking, but I plan to take the light assembly loose to see more of what's in there. It's inside a little cup-shaped housing, so it's hard to even see the socket.
I got all of the gauge lights + clock to light up yesterday with more cycling of the light switch... And the radio lights up, but no sound.
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You may be able to get a much better price by doing the best you can to look underneath where it sits. Open the hood - can see a fair amount looking down in there. (If you don't know, the hood releases are inside the cabin, knob at bottom of dash on each side - pull knob maybe 8" or so to release latch - hood opens from either side.)
If you do the work to cut the trees, air up the tires, and drag it out, the value just went up by many, many dollars because now the owner has something that looks much more impressive for the marketing photos, so best deal may be to take a chance as it sits. Owner may know this, and insist on much higher price if it's out of the trees before you have a deal...
I'm bringing back a '51 that sat for about 20 years in a field on gravel (not in mud). Sitting up off the ground makes a huge difference.
A very important part with the '50 is the front bumper. That one looks complete, and in reasonably good shape. EVERY SINGLE ONE of those "grill teeth" is a different part! (Thus in '51, they went to the "waterfall" grille where all but the vertical bars on either end are the same.)
Rescue Me - '51 41D
in Me and My Buick
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Nope, it wasn't the same radiator. The $145 one looks worse than the one that I got. Just a note - I swapped out the sun visor pivot fittings. After watching many auctions go by where a pair of '50-'51-'52 sun visors with the ceiling fittings regularly get into crazy bidding wars for $80+, I won a no-other-bids deal for much less than that on a pair that had really poor looking visors, but the ceiling fittings were ok. On my car, the RH ceiling fitting had been partially reworked with a big bolt and a block of wood to hold the visor (kind-of functional), and the left one was cracked, so the visor hangs down where you need to see. The visor panels themselves are not great, but they'll do. A couple of minutes with a screwdriver and both visors are back tight up against the headliner.