Scott Bonesteel
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Posts posted by Scott Bonesteel
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Larger one goes to the front. Should be the same as on my 34 Plymouth PE. Funny thing, all the years I've had these and I never noticed that they are different lengths...Will shoot you a picture later today if you need one.
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The bracket knobless has pictured is what I have typically seen on 33s in the States. Attached are two pictures of what I have always seen on 34s, which seems to be much closer to what you have--hole and the 'cup' shape, which is different than the stud on the 33s. Flange is a little different but perhaps that is a 'down under variant'. Hope this helps.
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The attached should be of interest to you. I have had 34 Plymouths for years and the 34 Plymouth 'Woody' has always been a favorite. As set forth above, none of the 35 manufactured apparently have survived. There are hardly even any pictures of them and we have mostly the Bette Davis 'Dark Victory' clips of the 34 PE Plymouth woody to confirm their existence. More direct to your point, attached are photos of a sales brochure from Plymouth/US Body and Forging for the 34 PE woody--this is the only documentation I have ever been able to find. Hope it helps. SMB
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Dave--All I can say is that 'idle hands are the devil's playthings'. Whenever I'm on the web and run into something 30s Mopar and interesting, I save a copy for future reference. Can't recall how I found this one but I seem to recall there is a website listing cars in films, and I may have found it there. Attached is another still from the same film, confirming that the car is a 34 PE. SMB
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Dave--The 34 Plymouth and Dodge convertible coupes (with roll up windows) had fold down windshields. They also had at least one sunvisor (I believe the passenger side sunvisor was always an extra accessory). What makes it confusing is that the visor did not attach to the windshield frame but, rather, to the front top header. See the attached photo of a 34 Plymouth PE from a 1930s period French film, showing the visor attached to the header on a folded top. The visors, at least on the Plymouths, were different from the closed cars. The closed cars had a visor that was hung from one end, whereas the convertible had a 33 Dodge style visor, hung from both ends.
In the learning mode. For 33-34 Dodge-Ply, the convertible were only made with folding windshield? 33-34 Chry-Desoto had the stationary windshield? So the folding windshield didn't have a visor? With that being said, did the Dodge-Ply have a convertible with stationary windshield?
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Chris--Erick is correct, they mount vertically. See attached picture, 33 PD Convertible door (turned on its side).
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Dave--I need one of each, left and right, for my KCL 34 Humpback. I will call you. Scott B.
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Dave--I think that one might be a 34, it looks a little thick to be for the 525X17. What size is the tire? I would also take a look down on the bottom by the clamp, they are often stamped with the size at that point. It does have the wider chrome band, which indicates it is either 33 or 34. The 35-36 I think has a narrower band. SMB
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Here's what they look like so you know when you find them. Hope this helps. Happy Hunting!
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Dave--Here is a driver side 1933 Plymouth sidemount cover, 525-17.
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Sure, glad to be of help. SMB
Hi Scott, May I have permission to use one or both of these photos in the parts section of my web site? Thanks! -
The screws I have seen on 34s are exactly that, #6 x 3/8" slotted pan head screws. On further review of the part numbers listed above and actually going down and looking at the darn things, some of the 34s do have 'studs' on the cowl protector strip. The 142594 pan head screw checks in my 1929-1939 Plymouth Master Parts List as exactly that. However 104449, while listed, is listed as a "oval head rivet, split", 9/64 x 3/8, which doesn't sound right for even the radiator shell, much less the cowl. I found on my 34 Plymouths, as well as on a 34 Dodge humpback, both screws and these 'nails' or perhaps 'studs', pictures of both of which are below. I would guess these are the 'cowl protector strip drive stud' as that describes them exactly. They have a flat head and are not exactly a threaded nail--they look like a large upholstery tack that has been 'pinched' mid-shaft to provide a self-threading bump of sorts. Probably cheaper than threading them. Closer to nails than to rivets or screws. Shaft is about 1/2" long. Hope the pictures help.
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Keeping in mind that my experience is mostly with 34s, every one I have ever seen has the nickel split rivets on the radiator shell welting but uses small, pan head slotted sheet metal screws on the welting on the cowl that screw through the welting into the cowl. This makes sense because it would be simple, during original construction at the factory (which is usually what controls how things are built), to rivet the radiator shell because the tool could be held on the edge of the shell and crimp the back side. Not so with the cowl, where to do so would require two people, one on the inside of the cowl and one on the outside. Therefore, easy to screw through the welting into the cowl, through the pre-drilled small holes along the welting installation line. I will shoot you a couple of photos later tonight and check my parts books--I will bet they list a cowl lacing 'screw' and not a rivet. SMB
Those covers are at the body shop. I will photograph as soon as I visit again. I thought sedans had them as well.Also Erick, thanks for these informative photos. I know the hood lace, against which the hood rubs, is attached with nickel plated split rivets on the front. Your photo shows what looks to be split rivets also on cowl? This makes sense to me. All my Chevies use split rivets on front and "wire on" on the cowl. The difference is the Chevies have a loop with a bolt that draws up and tightens the "wire on". The Plymouth has no way to do this on cowl that I can see. Split rivets look to be correct, any other input on this?
Thanks, Chris
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Had 4, just sold my PE coupe, now down to 3.
hello Scott how many mopar cars do you have -
Tom and Dave--
Checked all my part books. Trunk rack brackets, right (612782) and left (612783) are listed for 'coupe' in 'enamel' finish. They are shown as being on Plymouth PC coupes, US built, after #1804333; 1933 Plymouth PD coupe; 1933 Dodge DP coupe; 1934 Plymouth PF coupe. Looks like you have just the right set for your coupe. SMB
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And to REALLY CONFUSE THINGS, here is a set of purportedly 33 Plymouth trunk rack brackets currently on Ebay, supposedly from a sedan. Completely different from all the above versions. As I indicated in my prior post, there are numerous versions listed in the parts books. Absent casting or parts numbers, hard to tell exactly which one is appropriate.
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Interesting that the support bars are different than the ones I posted for Tom, probably because the main bracket is configured differently. Tom's is a 33 so he should probably see you about the support bars rather than use the dimensions I posted from my 34--clearly the locking pin hole is in a different position and the curved bar appears to be longer.
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Tom--Here is a photo of the 'curved link' bracket and a diagram of its dimensions, best I could do. The link, like the straight one, is 3/8" thick stock, 7/8" wide. Using the letter and number designations on the drawing, these are the other dimensions:
Hole 'A'--7/16"; Hole 'B'--11/32"; Hole 'C'--3/8". Hole 'C' is where the bracket attaches to the rack. Attaches with a 3/8 SAE x 1" bolt, with a nut and starwasher.
Other dimensions: 1. 7 3/8"; 2. 6 5/8"; 3. 5 1/4"; 4. 1 5/16; 5. 1 3/4"; 6. 7/16"; 7. 7/16"; 8. 7/8". SMB
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Dual sidemounts were, as far as I am aware, always an option on the commercial vehicles, at least as far as the commercial sedan and commercial panel (humpback) were concerned. Examples: The January 1933 Sales brochure for the "New Finer, More Beautiful Dodge Commercial Sedan" lists "six wheels mounted in fender wells" as available "EXTRA EQUIPMENT". The April 1934 sales brochure for the KC and KCL lists the same "EXTRA EQUIPMENT". The May 1935 sales brochure for the KC and KCL has similar language, "six wheels with spares mounting in fender wells". While none of those show a left (driver's side) mounted spare, one is shown on a 35 (first series) KCL advertising brochure I have, with another pair of left-sidemount KCL panels shown in a January 1934 Dodge "Dependable Trucks for Department Stores" sales brochure, the panels apparently just having been delivered to a Philly department store called Dewees. The Ross Roy Comparative Handbook for 3/1/35 lists for both the KC and the KCL lists a "Six Wheel" extra equipment option with "extra fender well and tire lock" for $10 if you wanted 5.25/17 steel spoke wheels/tires or $30 if you wanted 6.00/16 steel spoke wheels/tires. Finally, pages 176 and 177 of the "Dodge and Plymouth Parts Buyers Guide, A Catalogue of Original Factory Parts", Chrysler Corporation publication D-3532 with prices effective 11/15/35, lists both left and right side welled fenders for the HC, HCL, KC and KCL--$13 each, choice of enamel or primed. How times have changed! My 34 KCL humpback has a standard, right side spare with no evidence of ever having a driver's side spare. SMB
Got any pictures of left side fender mounts? I don't think dual fender mounts were an option on commercial vehicles. -
Tom--Hopefully this will simplify rather than complicate things. Attached is a series of pictures of the trunk rack on my 34 PE sedan, as well as of another rack and bracket set I picked up at a swap meet last year. I think you will find that the 2 holes at the front of the bracket are different diameters, one of them smaller. That smaller hole is for a locking pin or 'screw' as the parts book calls it to lock the rack in place when it is 'up' without a trunk on it. The ends of the two brackets, one straight (the one to the rear) and one curved (the one to the front) are attached to the support brackets and to the rack with bolts. In my pictures you can see I have substituted a pin and cotter pin for the small screw (easier to remove, no tools required on the road). When it is removed, the trunk rack can swing down flat to have a trunk placed on it. Don't know if you have the four brackets, but the straight ones are 3/8" bar stock, 7/8" wide and 6-1/4" overall, with the holes 5-1/2" on center. I'll make you a drawing of the curved one if you don't have it. Two things: The number of combinations of racks and brackets across 33-34 is staggering but the Plymouth ones are general the same and the Dodge ones different, due to the shape of the rear of the Dodge body 'ducktail' on the 34s. The 33 support brackets, much like the spare tire holder, bolt into the vertical flange of the rear cross-member as opposed to the 34s, which bolt through the top of the cross-member. Some have the supporting cross-rods above the panel, some below. However, I believe the racks themselves and the 4 swiveling brackets, are the same, Dodge and Plymouth, 33 and 34, with the sole exception being the boss at the top which is either for the Plymouth shield or the Dodge Wings. Second thing, forgive the sawdust all over everything, I was cutting up some plywood in the garage this past weekend... . SMB
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The blueprint is to full scale.
Dave, I believe it's full to scale. -
Dave--Would an original blueprint for a 34 Plymouth hubcap help? See attached.
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Great call on the Pathfinder. I thought this one had you guys stumped for awhile.
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Not 34 Plymouth. The rear quarter windows are too wide. Plymouth also had opening rear quarter windows but they were narrower. In addition, although somebody's cousin is right in the way, I think you can see that the rear panel is starting to slope outward. The 34 Dodge has a duck-tail type rear panel, not cropped short like the 34 Plymouth shown above in Leif's photo. From what you can see, if it was a 34 Plymouth I would think you should be able to already see the panel bending in or perhaps even the lower body detail line. Although 34 Plymouths (at least the PE and PF models) also had the 'dual function' front door window vents, car is definitely not 34 Plymouth. I'm thinking 34 Dodge although I am not familiar enough with 34 Chryslers to rule them out. Anybody for a Desoto? Attached pictures, in order, 34 Dodge sedan rear and my 34 Plymouth PE 4-dr.
1934 Dodge Full Body Off Restoration
in Dodge & Dodge Brothers
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Here a a couple of photos, 34 PE Sedan hood. Checked my 34 PE convertible and it is the same. I think the front one is bigger because it mounts higher up on the hood panel than the rear one, which is right next to the bead on the edge. By the way, keep up the great work on your Dodge, it is beautiful!