Doc Hubler

JIm, Yes, I see that info on line; 1929 Marmon 68 sedan, 8 cyl. Buck traded two Fords to legally buy it in Texas, and the title documents were discovered in the Joplin apt after shootout that killed two law officers. The Marmon was abandoned at the Joplin apt. So my guess is the Missouri State Police or Joplin City Police/possible county sheriff took the car as evidence and it was in some impound lot for some time. It then disappears from the record. As far as I'm aware, it was not damaged in the shootout since the car was parked behind the apartment bldg. The new FBI really didn't have much to do with the Barrow gang investigation. So it seems it was quietly sold some years later and may be in the hands of a private owner, or it may have been scrapped as part of the WWII recycling program about 10 years later after languishing in an impound lot -- just an old used car at that point with little latent value. It does seem less likely that happened. The infamous owner probably would have made this car appear desirable to someone, even before the Bonnie and Clyde legend became popular in the 1960s.

Regarding tommy guns and cars of the 30s -- I suppose many people have in mind the iconic pictures of Clyde and Bonnie with their guns when they posed with the early V-8 Fords, so that's why they associate gangsters with those cars of that era, even though they really don't generally know much about the history of that era -- so anything with running boards and that general look will work with the tommy guns. If you read about the early 30s gangsters, you find out that Clyde preferred the Ford V-8s while Dillinger and Baby Face Nelson preferred the Hudson Terraplane eights. Essentially the gangster era pretty much ended by mid 1936 with the capture of Karpis. Alvin "Creepy" Karpis survived till 1979, dying in Spain (after serving time at Alcatraz and McNeil Island Penitentiary, WA, he was deported to his native Canada and from there ended up in Spain). I live out in eastern Washington state and was surprised to read that Machine Gun Kelley had held up a bank in the small town of Colfax, WA -- not exactly the midwest -- was quite a large heist at the time. Anyway, the film taken by one of the Texas law officers immediately after killing Clyde and Bonnie is another association of the guns with these 30s cars. I recommend reading the book "Go Down Together" if you're interested in Bonnie/Clyde story. Here is the video of the B/C death car. They hauled the car back into the town with the bodies still in the car where they were examined at a local mortician's office.

Wow, thanks for the neat pictures! The hood ornament for these is really an exquisite piece of art.

Thanks for the pictures! Couple of observations/questions. Is this a 94 or 96 series car? I don't know the way they put different option packages on the car. So for example, my power seat and window switches are a part of the armrest (in front of armrest). It is same on passenger side door, only one switch to operate the window since the bucket seat on that side is not powered. I was a little surprised to see the other 4 switch unit on the driver's door of your car. Typically, the wiring through the door needs help. Also on the dash panel, I have never found a Toro in which the plastic lenses for the signal indicators haven't decayed and crumbled. The brake and high beams usually survive. And the paint on the panel of the originals is always coming off giving a zebra stripe appearance. You have the AC/heater unit, but not Comfortron. I think the dial just operates the fan speed on your car (lettering says "fan" next to the round dial. Mine dial says "temp" next to the round dial which has numbers from 65-85 in increments of 5 indicating temp in Fahrenheit. The "dial" just oppsite that one is the infamous "blank" or fake dial (just a molded piece of plastic held in place with a single screw. If you had the speed control, this is where you would dial in the speed setting. That has a little plastic part that always breaks that I'm trying to find! Half the lights didn't work on the dash. not because the bulbs were burned out but because the "electronic" board (looks a lot like a computer integrated circuit board) that is the actual wiring had cracked and broken the connections, so no juice was getting to the lamps. Had to use a part off my parts car because as far as I'm aware, these are just not available in any form (they get heat cracked). I also replaced the wiring harness for my Tilt/Telescope steering wheel years ago because it had stopped working. You can get those from a company called Shee-Mar Inc. I can send you a picture of the instrument panel out of my car. I'm almost done with it, but just finishing a few items before it's ready for reinstall. As you might guess, you will need valium to get through he process of removal/repair if you ever decide to go through it. One other thing I found out is these cars had tons, and I mean tons of clay sealant pushed into the wiring connections to prevent water from getting in them, and there was a huge abundance of sealant tar everywhere. The way they did these trunks was to spray LOTS of glue in the trunk area and then glue the felt to everything, including the rear drain tubes. It's no wonder those things always harden and then leak. I'm sure Toro owners mostly were AAA members when their cars were new. Who the heck can get the dang spare out of the trunk, wedged as it is against the rear seat??!!

In case anyone is interested, here's an ad for a 1932 Olds 8 cyl car located in Oregon. I had posted a similar ad for a 1933 ad in Washington, and this got added to the bottom of that posting. Wanted folks to be aware in case they are interested. I think this was the first year that Oldsmobile offered and 8 cylinder engine. I had purchased a 1967 Olds Toronado parts car from this person. 1932 Oldsmobile price reduced $1000 This is a started project most of the body work has been done,engine has been rebuilt its a inline flat head 8 cyclinder, tires are new.If your looking for a car that you dont see very often this may be for you. Call JIM if you have Questions 541-620-2323. send me your email if you want more pictures thanks. I do have a title.I've had this for sale for awhile will consider a offer thanks JIM Anderson.

Bryan, One thing which you must/probably know about.... I also thought my car was just fine engine wise. And really it was/is. However, when I did take it apart, I realized that the timing gear/chain had problems. These engines used a nylon toothed timing gear, and they all eventually get chewed up and the nylon ends in the oil pick up tube. Luckily, it is screened, and goes through the oil filter. So my car ran/sounded fine -- there were no obvious issues caused by the timing gear because the chain engaged the metal teeth of the gear below the nylon part. But the slop in the timing gear was incredible, and it's amazing that it did run -- could have quit any time. Be prepared for the engine to stop running at any time if you think the gear may never have been changed, and of course you are then looking at a pretty major operation to get at the timing gear (look at the front engine mount and what has to be removed in front -- may as well remove front clip and go through the entire thing). The other issue is that you are causing a some oil deficit to the oiling of the engine, not good for sure, especially if the engine has been run hard. This is a common issue with engines from these years. Like modern cars, the timing chains were meant to be changed after a specific number of miles as part of a regular maintenance program. But who wants to spend money if the car still runs, then after 10 years, most mechanics aren't even aware of the issue. the reason they used the nylon gears was because it was supposed to be quieter with the engine running. When I had the exhaust system replaced, I had them give it a little better breathing and a little more "presence" in terms of noise, and all the quiet stuff was ridiculous anyway. Nothing sounds better than an Olds Big Block!

I don't have any good pictures of the interior buckets/console, but Paul's pictures are exactly what they look like. They are out of the car right now and will need new upholstery. There's really nothing fancy about the seats or the console box -- the driver's seat is 4-way power (no power for passenger seat). The console has a simple lock on it, no light, but is pretty large and unique to Toronado. They are rare because of the design with no transmission hump, most people did opt to go for the Strato Bench seats as you really could seat 3 across the front comfortably, or if only two sat up front there was a large center armrest. I have located a 68 Toro nearby that has the center console and floor shift and I'm pretty sure that is is factory authentic. This was a fairly rare option for 68. Of course, the rarest is a W-34 equipped ram-air engine (they went to 455 cubic inch for 68). Anyway, the console on the 68 Toros look similar to the other Olds cars, has a light inside and at the end of the console. Also, for 68, they did a better job of incorporating the factory 8-track into the dash and where it was more reachable. These Toros are excellent cars, and very well engineered. Because of their uncommon nature, and the relative difficulty of understanding how to service components, most of these cars are runners, but not restored very thoroughly beyond some upholstery and paint. You'll find most of them have a little floor rust in the rear seat floor pan behind driver's seat, and also in the trunk/quarters due to the rear vent drainage system (the rubber tubes get clogged with leaves and dirt and then eventually water leaks into the trunk. For me, 67 was the gold standard year for Oldsmobile. My next desire is a 67 authentic 442 -- that is the best year for those. I also have a 67 Vista Cruiser wagon that I think I'll buy. Neat cars!

Pretty sure I saw an original condition 37 Business Coupe with two tailights about 8 months ago, and this would be the same basic body style as the '39. Myself, I do have a 1940 P-9 Business Coupe (Road King) and it has both taillights, but the one on the driver side has the "knobby" projection (clear glass, the rest of the tailight is red glass with the ship logo design). The 1940 was the new updated body style which was slightly larger, but there are many of the same components that are similar that are shared for those years. Many years ago, we had my car (black), and 39 BCoupe (black), and a 38 BCoupe (black) lined up at a show/swap meet. They all were very similar in many ways and all had the dual tailights. One thing I don't konw: what is the knobby clear projection supposed to accomplish on the taillights for these cars? I really am not sure, so if someone can help me with that I'd appreciate it!

Here's some pictures and description of my Toro project. My car, which I purchased from the original owner over 10 years ago turns out to have many rare options for these Toros. I didn't get it for that reason, I just though they were neat cars! Anyway, Here's the option list: Vinyl roof, Pinstriping, Custom Wheel Covers, K-50 Option known as Climatic Combustion Control which is a special air cleaner with vacuum operator doors, Comfortron -- automatic climatic control system with 3 sensors located throughout car to control temperature which is dialed in, Factory 8-track tape player, rear window defroster, Speed Control, tilt/telescope Steering Wheel, Cornering Lamps, vacuum operated truck release, custom seat belts, and bucket seats with center console. Options the car did not have: automatic vacuum operated door locks, front disk brakes, and just had the standard AM radio (have now added AM/FM Wonderbar as only non-original option upgrade. The K-50 option is rare on these cars as is the Strato-Bucket Seats with Center Console. In 1966, it is estimated that of roughly 40,000 vehicles, only 50-55 may have had the Strato Bucket seats. This number may have increased into 200-300 range in 1967, but exact numbers aren't known. Only about 22,000 67 Olds Toronados were built. Car was originally Florentine Gold (Code Z), with black vinyl top. I don't like the greenish gold color of the original paint (very popular in the 60s-70s), so I am painting the car the 1967 Gold Color (code G). The main problem with this car was the rust under the vinyl roof, necessitating complete replacement of the roof. This was done using a 67 parts car, and has turned out well. The body shop owner told me that the ~127K original miles car had about 2 dings on the passenger door, and a little rust repair on the rear quarters, but otherwise was in excellent shape. The engine was in excellent shape, but had to replace the original nylon lined timing gear which had come apart (car still running even so) and put in new valve seals, but otherwise is in great shape. The tranny has been gone through and seals/bands replaced. Will be finishing up the CV joints soon on this car and then is will be mostly an assembly operation. Will be posting more info as work progresses. Member of the Toronado Owner's Association and plan to post publish more info on this car there.

There was an ad posted on here about 1.5 years ago, and by the time I noticed and responded, they had disposed of the body parts in the landfill since no one seemed interested. That one got away! The grille on my car got mangled by the original owner about 40-50 years ago and some of the stainless strips were mangled/fell off. Anyway, would like to get the grille without having to get an entire parts car. Depending on the shape, might consider front/rear fenders as well.

Ok, found the 1932 Olds ad, so it's still available. Located in eastern Oregon. Seller is easy to deal with -- good guy who works for the Oregon DOT I think. Those of you familiar with Olds of this era will know whats correct or not, but just the pictures look correct to me. don't know if it's an original straight 8 in this vehicle, but if so, that would make it quite rare. 1932 Oldsmobile price reduced $1000

Bryan, Are you getting the 33 or not? Hope you can keep us informed here how it goes. Let me know how your 67 Toro looks. I am in the midst of restoring mine, and it seems to have all the rare options. Best was that I did buy it from the original owner. Anyway, i've had to learn a lot about these cars, and they are more complicated that I thought to restore. I'm getting ready to tackle the CV joints/final drive and then the tranny, engine go back in and we start getting an assembly operation going instead of increasing entropy.

The 32 seems to be gone -- for now. Can't find an ad for it now, so maybe it sold. I bought a 67 Toronado parts car from him about 2 years ago, and he was trying to sell this 32 Olds then, but I'm (still) ankle deep in projects (one of which is the Toro restoration). I saw the ad for this 32 Olds just a month ago; I remember that I looked it up and there were only something on the order of 5400 of these eights made, so it's rare. If it shows up again, I'll post a notice here. Tim

I was just curious if there is any idea what happened to Buck Barrow's Marmon. Buck Barrow was the brother of Clyde Barrow of Bonnie and Clyde fame. He abandoned his Marmon vehicle in Joplin, MO after a shootout with police there. In this infamous incident, two police officers were killed and the Barrow gang managed to escape (apparently Blanche, Buck's wife, lost her dog during the incident; she was captured later in Dexfield Park, Iowa, and Buck was mortally wounded there). I would think that the Joplin police had custody of the car for a while, but perhaps the FBI took possession of it for evidence. Anyway, was curious if anyone knew what happened to this car. I've never read about it showing up in later years. The house where the shootout took place in Joplin survived the tornado. It is a time capsule, and looks virtually the same as when the Barrow gang were living there. Thanks, Tim

There are no plastic inserts on the front door moldings that I'm aware of. If you mean garnish trim, they are the woodgrained (burl wood) metal only. The window cranks do have plastic inserts. The ashtray for the front passengers is on the dash. My car has the Sportsman upholstery. It has tan leather bolsters on top/bottom of seats with cloth seats, as per original literature (these were optional). I can't really see anything that shows clearly the ash tray covers in the back on the illustrated literature that I have. I think that the hood ornament was a diecast piece for standard cars, but that the lucite lady was optional (my car also has that). I'll send you some pictures of my 1960 Dodge Dart Seneca. Dashboards are similar with see through speedometer. Tim

Thanks for the response. Anybody that may have pictures, please send. If I can find a good pair, maybe I can see about having some reproductions made as they will be nearly impossible to find otherwise. If the were plastic, maybe that's why they are missing -- more easily broken. If you have any pics of your 61 Polara, would love to see them. Have a 1960 Dodge Dart Seneca.

Does anyone know where I could get a pair of these? They are located below the windows in the rear seat area of the Club Coupe. Have the actual ashtray, just not the covers, but any for sale would likely be the entire piece. Not sure if they were diecast chrome with plastic knob or woodgrained. Does anyone know if these interchange with postwar Desotos? my guess is probably not. Pictures would be very helpful. Thanks, Tim

I hope this car can be saved as they must be quite rare. I also know where there is a 32 Oldsmobile for sale not too far away in Oregon, and it is also an 8. Let me know if there's any interest. I've met the guy before, as I bought an 66 Olds Toro parts car from him. I'll see if I can find the listing and post it here. I briefly considered the 32, but too many irons in the fire and it wasn't quite in my usual repertoire. Tim

Tim, one question I had for you that I might have missed on your website was the engine color for you 46 PU. Before restoration it shows that it was Chevy Orange, but after it looks like it is a gray color. Can you give me some details on that? Thanks, Tim

Jon, THanks, I will contact you. Yes, this carb is exactly the same. Other than a Ball and Ball, there isn't much identification. Looks like a number is stamped into a space on the outside of the carb -- probably a "1". Tim

Can someone tell me where to get these from? Local parts store just finds the standard carb kit. Here is a schematic I found online

Just in case anyone is interested, saw this post in my area of SE Washington state on Craigslist. For those that aren't scared of projects! 1933 Oldsmobile sedan Straight 8

Tim, It's great to hear from you! I had seen your website before. I haven't really made any progress on this truck as there are 3 others in front of it (actually more, but I'll work on the Chevy sometime during this year). They are a 42 Desoto Club coupe, 67 Olds Toronado, and 48 Cadillac. After the Toro, the Chevy seems like a relatively easy one to restore. My Suburban truck was originally like yours in that it had the clamshell arrangement. Those were ripped off and probably thrown out with the seats probably 40 years ago as the truck was purchased by my brother in law from a church camp in Idaho, and they had been using it to haul stuff around the camp locally for some years. He found a a pair of barn doors, probably off a panel truck, so I have those, and rather prefer them anyway. I investigated how those would go on and they are essentially like the front doors, but the hinges are a little longer (about an inch I think). I can see that the bodies were built to accept either arrangement, which is what would make sense from a production standpoint. I talked with folks at Jim Carter about this and they have those hinges on backorder. Interestingly, I found parts of the chain and mounts for the tailgate/liftgate that were originally with the car. Other than finding the seats, the major items are the engine and suspension. I can get all the suspension parts from Rare Parts, pretty sure. The head had been taken off this engine while the truck sat since 1983, so things are quite rusty. Can be rebuilt. A lot of folks say to trash that engine and put in a full pressure 235, but I think the old splasher engines are fine. Under today's driving conditions and with the oils available today, everything will last much better on a properly rebuilt engine. I have several Hudson cars, including a 1941 Hudson pickup. Those also have the splasher type oiling system and they work fine and the babbit bearings actually make the engine purr quietly. I also had a 1941 Chevy PU in the past, but sold that one before I completed its restoration because I needed to concentrate my resources a little. Anyway, I very much want to stay in touch, so please do the same and let me know how your project is going. Who do you recommend for vendor for parts? Jim Carter has always been helpful to me. They looked for the seats, but didn't have any in their stash. The guy thought that a lot of folks use the Advanced Design series suburban seats as a replacement for these 41-47 Chevys. With only 2545 of the clamshell door type and around 1500 of the barn door type Suburbans, you and I have some of the few remaining examples of these cars from 46-47, and there are probably a few 41 and 42s left, but not many. I dont' know the original color of my truck. Looks like someone brushpainted the black. I plan the Boatswain Blue with black fenders (silver stripe with red pinstripe down the sides). Tim Hubler

Could you do me a favor and take a good picture of the radio on your Park Avenue dash? Mine seems to be missing a trim strip between the dial window and the preset buttons. Makes me wonder if it was a replacement radio out of another Chrysler of the era as they all have the same basic layout/design for a number of years. Even my 1940 Plymouth Coupe has a similar type radio. How do you use/set the frequencies with the preset buttons? Pulling them out doesn't work. Also, if you could take a picture of the steering wheel cigarette dispenser with the lid opened, that would be interesting to see, just for grins. Thanks, Tim

I guess these worked by pulling down the knob and then it would push a cigarette up the top; I imagine it's kind of spring loaded somehow; any pics of the inside of the disperser? Very 40s and very cool. Although I don't smoke! You probably only dispensed the cigs on the straighaway!