Beemon
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Posts posted by Beemon
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I found this listing. It's the Special 3.23 gear set vs the 3.36. What type of significant difference is this? Lack of power? Better economy? These gears are for the 264 I'm assuming.
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The car is in the shop for a scheduled tear down of the rear end to replace all the bearings and seals. I got a call today from the shop that the pinion gear was loose and has been hammering away at the housing and spider gear assembly. Furthermore, it has effectively sanded off the hardening on the surface of the teeth. The gear set is fine but he strongly suggested to track down a replacement. As far as I know, 1956 is a one year wonder with the rear end. The local classic junkyard has no rear ends left in their two 1956 Buicks. How often does this gear set pop up? No one makes this gear and I haven't been able to turn any leads.
A little bit of history: My grandfather had the rear end out in the mid 60s and went through and replaced all the bearings and seals himself. He tightened down the pinion nut and then backed it off.
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Thanks Beemon. I only wanted to understand what for it is and how it works. It is more like a residual valve, which holds the pressure in the lines.
It does both. It's a residual valve and proportioning block. You can still use it if you T your two MC ports into one line, but then you loose the whole point of going to a dual MC: having two separate lines in case of brake failure. Disc/Drum and Disc/Disc also have different proportioning settings for optimal braking conditions that the stock proportioning block is not capable of. I have heard it's okay to use for Disc/Drum conversions, but it might be harder braking.
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I see you did a rack/pinion steering conversion. What kit did you use? Was it a bolt on swap or did you need to fab some brackets?
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I think the block is 53/47. It should say in the manual, page 9-2 under Approx. % of Total Braking Power on... As for which port is front or back, just follow the front line to the block. I'm pretty sure the front most port is the front. I have my block sitting on a shelf, as I replaced it for disc/disc. It's also not very useful for a dual stage master cylinder since it only has one entry port and not two. If you keep the stock MC in place, then keep the block. Otherwise you'd be better off replacing it.
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I had my radiator re-cored and rebuilt by the local salvage yard. The man did an amazing job for $200 and it hasn't failed me in 8 months the car has been running. I also had a core added to the original radiator size. Looks completely stock with the fan shroud. Check locally, there may be something similar.
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Trying to follow this and forgive me if I missed somethin... you say box is in... did you rebuild it, have it rebuilt or?
My mistake, yes I had the gearbox rebuilt by Lares Corp. They tested and guaranteed it was working before I received it. I rebuilt the pump myself following the shop manual. Arrow points clockwise from the pulley, all the round edges are outward for the pump vanes, new bearings and pulley seal, pump moved freely and so did the pressure relief valve. Hook everything up, fill reservoir and let it sit until all bubbles are gone. Bled the system per instructions and no power assist. Dan from Lares said it was the relief valve getting hung up, so I flushed and removed the pump, removed the back and made sure the valve was free to move in the reservoir. Re-assembled and re-bled, still no power assist. I dismantled a second time to be sure I didn't miss anything, everything looked good, put it back together and re-bled a third time. I couldn't get it to stop bubbling on left hand turn but right hand turn had no more bubbles and still no power assist. The shop manual describes a bleed screw on the gearbox but I don't think I have one despite the shop manual saying it exists. I just have the normal side housing bolts on the plate, and this is supposed to be a small screw.
At this point I think I'm going to send the pump out to be inspected and rebuilt now, too. I can't figure out whats wrong with it. The pressure valve moved freely in the bore. At one point I had the reservoir off and used a screw driver to make sure the valve moved in the bore. My only guess is that somewhere a chunk of debris might be clogging one of the inlet/outlet cycles since they're only ~.116 inches, but I flushed the fluid and I didn't see any debris. The only thing I didn't do during the rebuild is take off the pressure fitting. The pump worked flawlessly before disassembly and I did a quick search and it looked like Buick5563 had a similar problem in his thread.
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Box is in, bled per instructions and there is no power to steering at all. In the shop manual, it says you have to crack open a bleed screw on the gear side cover. Is this any one of the five screws? The pump was working before gear removal and I had power assist before.
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Ah okay so you're already running timing through the computer. Pretty interesting setup. Looking forward to seeing the fuel delivery system.
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With the ports on the left side, be careful that they clear the inner fender. Since this is a small MC, it might not be too bad. Also how did it fit on the end, snug? Does it look like the booster piston will compress the master cylinder completely?
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I've been extremely curious about all these new electronic TBI systems flooding the market. Apparently the new Holley system has a fuel pressure regulator built into the main body, as well as being able to control timing. For a restomod, although hard to tell from just the distributor cap, bu I'm surprised you didn't go with the MSD Nailhead distributor. With a phased rotor and an ignition box, you could run your timing through the throttle body (not sure if FAST supports that feature or not, though).
What are you planning for fuel tank and delivery? I know the Phantom Aeromotive system is really popular right now and is a great way to retain the stock look while also putting a high pressure pump in the original fuel tank.
I'm really interested in doing this to my setup (electronic TBI, new fuel pump, etc) so I'll be keeping up with your progress. Amazing job thus far!
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Have you made an adapter plate for the Opel MC? I know you said it's mount flange was smaller than 3 inches. When you get it all mocked up, can you take a photo before you put it in the car? Thanks Thomas.
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Got out to take a picture the other night.
That's the extent of the bend, if anyone was curious. I measured the from the edge of the wheel well to the edge of the tire and its a 1/8" difference between the two sides.
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I have a firewall mounted remote reservoir with my master cylinder. The rear calipers I used are mechanical from 1980-85 Eldorado/seville/toronado/riviera. It was suggested for disc/disc I use a 1 1/8 inch bore master cylinder at a 3:1 pedal ratio, but since I mounted the master in the stock location, which is a 1:1 ratio, I've been hunting for a remote master less than 1 inch to take up pedal pressure. Even before searching, the 1 inch bore mc worked fine when using disc/drum. It required a bit more of a push due to the 1:1 but worked regardless.
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I found a pair on ebay that are straight and I may just order them. I'm very limited in the carport at the moment and I'll have it in the shop here pretty soon, where they'll have to remove them anyways, so I can just hand them off, or get their opinion at least. The only thing I'm worried about with straightening them is that the metal is already bent, and the radius arms control the sideways movement of the torque tube, I'd just hate to hit the last bump on I5 that puts the axle sideways.
Thanks for the info, guys! I was just worried that because it was bent, and I've put about 2000 miles on the car since the engine rebuild, that I wasn't causing irreparable harm to the driveline.
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Never heard of "radius arm" is that the rod between the pitman arm and idler arm?
Leif in Sweden.
The radius arm in the shop manual is the arm from the rear axle to the torque tube.
I'm sure that "sprung" means mis aligned.
Is there anything I should be worried about?
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While I'm waiting for the steering gear to come back from Lares, I've been doing some rear brake work. When I had the car jacked up, I noticed the driver side radius arm was bent, like someone tried to jack the car up from the center of it. In the shop manual, it cautions that the rear end might be sprung. What is this referring to? Also how hard is it to replace or find a replacement? Are they interchangeable between models/years?The local vintage junkyard has all the rear ends ripped from underneath their Buicks of the era. I'm having the car sent in to have the rear end completely re-sealed after I get the steering gear back, and while it's down, I'd like to get this taken care of.
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Thomas, if it helps narrow down your choice, the bolt pattern for the master cylinder is 3 3/8 inches
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What year Fiat Thomas? The ones I have found have a rotated mounting flange.
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After doing a bit of research, I did find a Doorman master cylinder with .75" bore. The original master cylinder in 1956 if I recall correctly is a 17/32" bore, so this master cylinder would probably be more desirable. As far as fitment goes, it doesn't specify how long it is. It also has a Ford mounting flange, so I'm not sure how well it would bolt up to the more common GM booster.
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I found the thread I commented in, it wasn't created by me, but I outlined everything I have done thus far. This last month, however, while I had my steering box out, I replaced the rear drums with discs. I went to go park on a hill and the car didn't stop rolling backwards, leaving me to park and walk an extra 15 minutes. Every park after that, unless on level ground, would not stop the car from rolling back. I'm jaded to the fact that I was not born in an era with drum/drum vehicles and I cannot stand them personally. Everyone always argues that the original system works the best, but there's a reason why all full size cars come stock with disc/disc. If I could, I would attempt to put ABS on the old girl, but that's besides the point.
It seems the pictures are lost, so I'll have to try and find those, but they're outdated anyways. Bear in mind I had to notch my frame to have the master cylinder fit in the stock location. In hindsight, I should have used a jeep MC or something much more compact under there.The car stops on a dime, or did before the drums went out of alignment and I spent more time than I wanted to trying to fix them. Bear in mind that drums are free floating, self energizing, while discs are always in contact with the pads. Also please note that the master cylinder I used has left ports. I put the master cylinder on the car before the fenders were on, and left ports come up flush with the fender. I had to cut a small hole (ouch!) to make the lines fit and just haven't had the cash to buy a right hand port master cylinder. Bleeding these systems can also be difficult. Because the MC is on a downward slope, I've been told that the angle allows for sucking in air. I am not familiar with this issue, but it could apply to you. There is a reason why the MC is parallel to the road surface, but if that were the case, then you would need to bleed your system every time you have to stop on a heavy incline.
Here is the link to the disc/drum proportioning valve that will mate to the MC I used.
They also make one for disc/disc setups, which I've recently purchased.
These proportioning blocks are cast from a GM block that uses a valve to equalize pressure in both ends of the lines. If you're sticking with drums, you won't need them, but you might have to get crafty with your proportioning block. Bear in mind the brackets provided will not work in the stock location, at least not for me. You may have to play with finding the proper location for the unit since space is extremely limited. While I wait for the steering gear, I may look into a different, smaller MC that more closely resembles the original stock, but for now my system has been working pretty well.
I hope this helps you and is what you're looking for. For me personally, Scarebird is the way to go. OEM products in my opinion are proven tough vs hotrod bling.
For anyone interested, the rear disc conversion cost me an unexpected $440 in shop time (originally quoted ~$200) to have the rear axle bolt flange shortened a few hundredths, as well as opening the rotor center hole up to the flange on the axle. The bracket was also from Scarebird and was $150. I had to pull rear calipers off a 1985 Seville at a junkyard for $30 to pay for the $70/ea core charge at NAPA. The calipers themselves were $65 each, the discs were about $45/ea and the pads another $45. I used a universal park cable connector from the universal wall packs and bought two 38 inch long cables that had to be pulled tight to fit (could have gotten away with 37 inch long cables) that were about $15. I can get exact values for those interested.
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Be careful with that kit! I purchased it for my buick, but it's not the right kit for the pumps that have the coordinator, control, washer and vacuum inlet/outlets.
The only thing that was wrong with my pump was the springs had rusted out. Cars also sells the large spring and that's all I needed.
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I sent BEEMON a message. If I read it right in an other post, he went to a dual MC with dual 7" brake booster. Let see how he did it.
I was just reading this thread, was wondering when my thread would pop up! I'm at work right now, but the swap is costly. The front discs will work with the original master cylinder, but you have to add a proportioning valve to the rear line since it takes longer for drums to engage braking force than discs. Going to a dual master cylinder is a completely different beast, but in my opinion is worth it in the long run if you plan to drive it more than just to shows.
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Not to bring this topic back to the top of the list, but has anyone tried or heard of using a Tri-Five electric motor? I know that one is cable operated, but the mounting flange is offset for one year.
1956 Century Ring and Pinion
in Buick - Post War
Posted · Edited by Beemon (see edit history)
So just to clarify, there are nothing wrong with the gears, except that the bottom of the pinion gear is rounded at the edges from hitting the spider housing. They are solid, but the hardening has been worn off in places because the pinion was loose (it looks like rubbed through tin foil?). What trouble would I get in to if I kept the gears?