mrcvs

That's what I used. A brand new set of hoses and hose clamps from Bratton's. I cannot physically tighten them further...and yet, leaks.

Well... I have learned a TON about early cars now. Probably just scratching the surface relative to the 'old timers' out there... And, here is where we are at now. Did the valve job today with a friend. Once you know what to do, it isn't all that bad. Got the head back on, torqued to 55 lbs, and... Okay, STILL won't start, BUT, I get a spark, variably...and, it must just be that I have been getting a spark variably, and, when I checked it with another friend, my variable spark did not act up. But I DID have low compression and needed the valve job. So, it is the ignition switch, and I shall order that tomorrow, and, hopefully, I will have a working automobile! All this stuff needed to be done...new water pump, new coil, some new parts for distributor/new condenser, new head gasket, NEW TOOLS (Needed those, but really disliked going to Wally-world to get Stanley tools made in China. Wanted to find Made in USA stuff at an auction, but could not find one locally having what I wanted anytime soon), and new automotive hoses. By the way, any tips on installing 3 new hoses using six clamps and I have as tight as I can go and yet 3 or 4 of the six clamped areas are leaking, more or less?

Appropriate for 1917 Maxwell. May have a lead on this already, but just seeing what is out there. Thanks!

Actually, am in need of a K D Carburetor for a 1917 Maxwell, may have one to purchase already, though. The Johnson Carburetor is an after-market replacement.

With 1913 patent date, for 1917 Maxwell.

Thank you !!!!! Howard. I knew you would know the answer. I did not realize that the spring could be adjusted, as it kept on not having enough tension in the past, and now I did not have enough. Apparently, there is a 'setting' in the middle, of which I set my new fan blade and armature to. The leather belts made by John Knox that I have, were slightly too loose now, so I placed a bit more tension on the belt by using a bungee cord, which shall suffice until I need a new belt, in which case I will order a shorter one. John Knox does a great job: http://leatherdrivebelts.com/ I took the Maxwell for a spin earlier today, and all went well.

I read what I wrote a few days ago, and, I guess, I could philosophize a little more, but, I think, the disappointment is what one's priorities are based on income...e.g., the salary is not necessarily there to fund hobbies, no matter what they might be, AND, most extra income is used to fund one's retirement. If you had told me at 18 years old that I would have to fund my own retirement, I would have thought that this is a most preposterous statement!!! Don't companies do that? Isn't that what a pension is? But...so it is! Now that the concept of funding one's own retirement is commonplace, there goes a lot of spending power to purchase early brass cars. In my case, $18,000 a year is gone, evaporated to fund my own retirement, and, of course, this is pre-tax dollars, so despite what I have saved, cut it by a third to pay taxes. (Yes, I am aware of Roth IRA's, but $18,000 a year with the tax benefit is tough enough...on my income I cannot afford the Roth IRA option). And, if you look at the ridiculous amount we all pay in taxes, if only we paid the proverbial 10% tithe as mentioned in the Bible, we would have so much more to spend on hobbies. I guess, as I have gotten to be mid-career, I have simply realized that my income will never be enough to support expensive hobbies, career advancement is a myth, and maybe there might be one brass era car in my distant future, and that saving for retirement is a much more significant goal than a brass era car, as painful as it is to say that.

Okay, some comments: I am not quite sure if prices will stay high indefinitely. I am making a generalization here, but the Millennial generation has been really nailed by the bad economy, so I don't know for sure if the job prospects in the future, and high incomes, will be there AND if those with the high incomes will even have an interest in very early cars. I have a home that, someday, I would like to sell. It is in an area where real estate has fallen upon bad times due to no jobs (which was always the case in the area) and a lack of interest in quaint housing by the younger generations (which was NEVER the case before, and it was a vacation place for those with means, but not really the case anymore!) The reasons, a realtor told me, is that the younger generations, as a whole, do not have the means that earlier generations had, due to poor jobs and high student loan debt. And, if they do, House & Garden television has ruined them. They want homes with all the amenities...granite countertops, media rooms, Jacuzzis, walk-in closets, etc., all the things you will likely not find in your average late 18th Century home. Okay, about education and disappointments: I am not particularly a depressing sort, nor suicidal, so all is good. But, now I shall get philosophical: 1) I knew early on that I had an interest in early cars, and knew it was an expensive hobby. I also knew I had other expensive interests, and I knew this at an early enough age to do something about it (e.g., pre-college), so that, I thought, I could do something about it. 2) I was told, you have good grades, you should go to college. I fell for that one, hook, line, and sinker! Worse yet, I was told in college, it doesn't matter what you major in, corporations love liberal arts graduates. Believed that one, only to find, upon graduation, that I was worth 50 cents more than minimum wage! I had gone to college intending to work my way up the corporate ladder, in order to fund these expensive ($$$) hobbies. 3) In reality, colleges are nothing more than for-profit institutions, and they prey upon those with little real-world experience. Fortunately, I set my sights so high that I could only attend the local state university, and, anyways, had I gotten in to 'those' institutions, I could not have afforded them, anyways. In reality, I was a moderate sized fish in a very small pond in high school, but did not realize that. When, in my day, 25% of individuals attended college, and my class rank was in the 10-20% range, I was smack dab in the middle of those who generally attend college. Nothing extraordinary about me at all. 4) If you do go to college, major in business or engineering. NOT that it will provide the means to collect early brass cars, but it can decrease the chances of having to go on for graduate education, OR it will enable you to more likely be able to work for a major corporation, and maybe you can rise to the top, but probably not, because... 5) You will have NO IDEA how competitive it is out there in the real world. Not only to even get a good job, but, once you are in that 'good job', to rise above that entry level job. Most will end up going no further, as it is a pyramidal hierarchy out there. Can't be any different! And, why is it so competitive to get into Ivy League institutions? Better chance of having those corporate connections...maybe? 6) I grew up middle class in a very wealthy area, which means that it was like being lower middle class, due to what my parents had, and what everyone else had. As a result, I saw lots of expensive hobbies amongst those who never had to work, and came to the conclusion that, despite what my parents said, in that it was not the real world, it really was! Wrong! I think that, with rare exceptions, and those will always be there, the opportunity to rise to the top is a myth. You are, more or less, socioeconomically where you were born, and there is more opportunity to fall lower than to go higher. I think that 'working for someone else', unless you are corporate brass, is not the way to get ahead, usually. Owning your own business is, but, for every one that succeeds, 3 or 4 fail, so the odds of success are low. But, like I said, such is life. But, I have learned as I get older, I don't HAVE to have an early brass car, or any of the other things I thought I would have when I was 18, there are things I would like and like and need are far different. Plus, I have few expensive hobbies now, and never had them. I fund my retirement to the MAX, as, obviously, this is more of a priority than a brass car, I pay my bills on time, and I live the middle class 'dream', I suppose. And dream about that early brass car. Okay, enough philosophizing, for now.

Howard Dennis probably knows the answer to this one. Previously, I had too much tension on my fan blade assembly, causing leather fan belts to stretch, and the fan blade to ride up against the radiator intake. After much searching, I located a new fan blade, reassembled this mechanism, and installed it in my Maxwell. This time, there is no tension on the fan blade as the 'spring' causes this to ride low. Trying to assemble twisting the spring, a VERY limited distance, yields no appreciable results. There is not enough tension to cause the belt to spin the fan, and the belt is loose. I have never really understood what purpose a fan serves on a car. It seems like the cooling effect over the radiator must be minimal, but perhaps I am wrong. Nonetheless, at tis point in time, I need more tension on this and don't know how to adjust. Previously, I was pulling my hair out to get this to have not so much tension. End result, secondary to this, or due to the fact that the fan blade showed metal fatigue, is that I threw a fan blade. Also, if anyone has smallish Maxwell parts, circa 1917, they want to part with cheaply, please let me know. Things such as fan blades, grease cups, etc. Can always use extra parts.

Oddly, when it comes to new cars, I really could care less about the 'wow' factor. I mean, a Mercedes or BMW means nothing to me, I previously drove a Ford Escort over 221,000 miles, and I currently drive a VW Golf that is 10 years old. When it comes to early cars, yes, I could have a Model T or Hupmobile. But, isn't that Pope-Hartford unique, not everyone has one, and it looks rather sporty? I love my 1917 Maxwell, not that expensive, not everyone has one, and did not cost a ton of money. Having said that, when it comes to a Brass-era car, a really fancy Brass-era car just seems more attractive than one that is not.

The fellow who will work on this car, and helped me last weekend, will hopefully be over again this coming week. Talking with him and describing what I see, he said it will likely need a 'valve job' and cost $600 to $800.

It is a compression issue; I have little to no compression. The head is pulled, awaiting an expert to come look at it. Valves are not stuck, nor are the pistons, but there is pitting between some valves.

Responses to the above comments: I would love to have a sharp looking early car, such as a Pope-Hartford. The purpose would be just to have it and enjoy it, take it for a spin down some back roads, maybe out to have ice cream or dinner and back. Run down to the local car show one afternoon a year and talk to other car enthusiasts. Don't see the point in collecting trophies, that create clutter and collect dust. I like cars with patina, such as the 1910 Maytag on the home page pictures right now. I don't think a car has to be 100% original. For example, a head gasket on a Model A I am working with has a modern replacement that is superior to the original, and so reliability is more important than originality here, for a functional part, but as far as appearance goes, most visual parts should be original or nearly so. Still, don't understand why cars as these cost so much. Doesn't seem like there are HUGE numbers of folks out there into this stuff??? Couple of comments above state it isn't easy and struggling for everything you have, and, ain't that the truth!!!! I grew up in a fairly wealthy area where many folks had tons of money, mostly without ever having to go to work a day in their life, of parents who would, anywhere else, been firmly middle class, but, because money was mostly not worked-for amongst many of the folks, prices were artificially high, and that made us lower middle class. However, I was led to believe that you get yourself a college degree, there will be tons of opportunity for advancement and many opportunities in private companies. (Just look at all those corporations listed in the fine print in the Wall Street Journal, all of which hire thousands of individuals). Ain't so easy. No connections...not the right education. So back to school I went! So much for the idea that keeping one's hair short, dressing okay, and not embellishing tattoos allover one's body was the ticket to a corporate dream job! Despite what the media perpetrates, there isn't much opportunity out there to make it beyond the 'middle class', and lots of opportunity to slide beneath that. So, I hear you!!!! I have struggled and worked hard to achieve what I have, and, despite it seeming to be lots of opportunities, wages are stagnant and employers have little need to bump up wages! To me, $50 is STILL a lot of money! AVS619 said it right: Nothing is easy in life!

Update: Had a fellow over yesterday who works on old cars and it's not the distributor or carburetor or other usual culprits. He left and will be coming back but had me pull the head in the meantime. There is some pitting around two of the valves so it needs a valve job at the very least.

Oh, ONE more thing. How do you even consider doing something like this when your wife would say NO, even at a tenth the cost, or less. She was about ready to roll my 1917 Maxwell to the curb the other day on trash day, I think.

Okay, I would LOVE to have an EARLY car, such as the 1913 Pope-Hartford for sale in Hemmings for $275,000 right now (although can it be worth anywhere near that much)? Or, the 1910 Maytag, unrestored (!) that comes up on the main photos page is really neat. (What is that car worth these days? That IS a genuine question). So, I have a college education, have a decent job, above the average income in America, I am a 'doctor', but not a 'real' doctor, as I am a veterinarian. But, despite that, to just frivolously spend $275,000 on a car, or anywhere near that, seems unfathomable, so how do YOU all do it? Is there some sort of creative financing out there, or are all of you simply the top 1%? I just don't know how everyone else does it, AND, why, despite my years of education, owning one, or several of these cars, is not an option? Or maybe, the REVERSE is true--why are they SO incredibly expensive, as not everyone is like Jay Leno. I HOPE MAYBE as the last truly GREAT generation passes on (sad to see this happen, or even mention this), MAYBE in 25 or 30 years, no one out there (other than a few souls like me (and I will be a septuagenarian then), will even want this 'junk'. Comments, anyone? With student loans, a mortgage, stagnant wages in this country, just doesn't seem possible. The ONLY way this 'might' happen, unless prices come way down, is if I sold a rental property I own some day and used the funds to purchase a car like this. BUT, that rental property took a lot of scrimping and saving to make it happen, and it has been a 21 year ordeal now, so it seems rather foolhardy to sell it some day and blow it on something this frivolous (and, due to depressed real estate prices these days, I could sell it and still have to come up with a huge chunk of change to afford that Pope-Hartford.

After ALL this, I had a friend over yesterday who has worked on cars before, and it STILL appears that it is the carburetor, despite replacing components within. I do have the new condenser, as the old one wasn't right, so THAT needed replacing, though was likely never the issue. I am half-tempted (or, more than that), once the car is running, to replace the Bratton's coil with the old one that was on there, probably from the '40's or '50's, made in USA (!!!!!), by P & D company, L.I.C., NY. Seems so much more substantial and better than the new one I bought, and probably will last forever! I am going to hire a fellow who works on Model A's to come over tomorrow and fine-tune this, as I think this is where we are at at this point. Probably he will have it running in no time like it should. I will say that I DID NOT replace the carburetor with a known one that works because I did not have one to do so with, and because the float, ball valve, filter, etc., were replaced and the carburetor was thoroughly cleaned and the jets are in working order, so I don't know why it does not work properly, but, such it is! When do you think that sort of coil was manufactured? Bottom portions look like it is Bakelite(?) With regards to the quote I included, yes, this is the plan. Right now, I am trying to get it running. Everything is there, it is a well-used, but not abused car, other than the fact the head was replaced once due to frozen water, so it should run. I have heard of stories of these cars being run several hundred miles, maybe thousands of miles, without problems, maybe even more! So, how do I, in addition to finally maybe getting this thing working right, do I get RELIABILITY? I would love to be able to run it 50 or 100 miles, maybe park it for a few hours, start it up EASILY, and run it back home, with NO issues relative to RELIABILITY, or the thought of that it is 4:30 in the afternoon on a Sunday, and I am 100 miles from home, I need to get up for work the next morning at 4:15 am, and I won't have to spend the night dealing with being towed, or even the remote possibility of thinking of being stranded or having to get towed. I do have a 1917 Maxwell, and, other than throwing a fan blade, which I fixed, and replacing a wire going to the distributor, I have not been stranded with this car, and have bailed myself out by myself. I have driven it maybe 150 miles since owning it. Right now, the only issue is that the leather fan belts stretch and cause the fan blade (with a 'wire' around it) to ride up against the radiator intake. However, the thought of being stranded has made me never drive this car further than 10 miles from home. This is always the fear. SO, once this is running, how do I get it to be RELIABLE?

Matt Hinson remains ever helpful. Here is where we stand now... Okay, first....this whole thing has made me learn a lot. I ripped apart the distributor today and put it back together, did the timing, etc., all stuff I knew of in theory and never did before. So, the problem with the condenser--turns out, after I ripped the distributor apart, the old condenser is smaller than the one obtained from Bratton's AND that screw I never could get out was not the right size. I had to drill it out! So, I installed the new condenser, checked the spark form all 4 spark plug wires and from the coil wire, and it is strong and white! Have gas on, gas in tank, key on, timed correctly with rotor pointing towards #1 spark at about 4 o'clock as facing from the passenger side, and...well, turns over, but won't fire. Before, when only dealing with the carburetor, as you recall, it would fire for 20 or 30 seconds. We have got to be INCREDIBLY close here!!!! Anything come to mind before I hear from Mr Hinson? I have learned a lot here. Evolved from a whiny my car won't run to just what I wrote now. Right, though...if the sparks are firing, I have gas, carburetor works, AND, in order to get sparks the coil and condenser must be working, it seems to me, according to the laws of phyics, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to not fire, but, here we are!

Matt Hinson is helpful. I will call him again... In the meantime, parts came from Bratton's yesterday. I replaced the coil. Still no improvement. A friend who knows about cars helped me adjust the timing a few days ago, before the crank arrived. By depressing the starter, we were able to do it. Next, I guess, replace the condenser. Easier said than done. I don't want to remove the distributor, because, first, it is adjusted, and secondly, I cannot get it off anyways, and fooling around with it messed things up in the past. Nonetheless, no matter what I do, I CANNOT get that screw that is parallel to the condenser out, the one that is in the direction of the driver's side!!!! What do I do? I even drove the old condenser out, reasoning it needed a new one, anyways, and, what remains behind (or what differs from the old one and the new one) is that the brass metal part that contains threading on the new one is separated from the old one, and, hence, remains behind. This is all that is left, and I STILL cannot get the screw loose or remove this piece from behind (in really constrained corners). Now what do I do? Something tells me that even once I get this fixed, however I do it, the car still won't run, as nothing else seems to work, either!!! By the way, what do you think of the quality of Bratton's parts? I don't know how long a coil will last, and if the old one was original or not, but the one from Bratton's is not identical. Also, the new condenser is longer than the one removed, independent of the brass threaded part. We are approaching a year now without a functional, running Model A. It seems confounding that it simply quit for no apparent reason nearly a year ago, and here we are, still, today. I am not totally mechanically illiterate. I can take something and replace it with something identical, or similar, like the coil. I can back out a stuck screw, usually, but not just this one!!! I can take a wire with a broken clip, which is unable to be used again, and strip it and wrap it around the positive point of the coil, e.g., I can improvise. But I lack the ability to figure out what is wrong with this car and the patience to get it to run. It just seems like to me it quit for no apparent reason, so it should be a simple fix, of a simple car, with good results.

I had 15 minutes to spare, but hope to work on this tomorrow evening. In the meantime: Question: Not having a crank yet (on order from Bratton's), I am trying to adjust the ignition timing. You can do this using the fan. I have tried to do so, and the timing pin does not go in despite turning the fan pulley. Presumably, it is because you must actually turn the crank pulley, which makes sense, as this is where the crank goes and because this is near the timing pin. I can easily turn the fan, but cannot turn one bit the crank pulley. Is in neutral, spark is retarded... How ever do you turn this without a crank shaft? Thank you.

Yes, I should not need to remove the distributor. But I cannot budge that left-facing condenser screw, even with Kroil. Screw starting to be such that screwdriver cannot bite screw. Don't know why it won't turn easy!

Okay, pulled rotor off and I think I found the centre head stud nut. Backed this out completely and backed out the Distributor Locking Screw and the distributor fails to budge an inch....Ugghhh!

How do you get the distributor off? You have the distributor locking screw. What else. Les Andrews' Book doesn't show what else to remove. I cannot get the left facing screw out of the condenser. Sprayed Kroil in there and it still won't budge. NOTHING seems to be easy with this car. I have learned a lot, and continue to struggle. Why don't they teach you how to fix your car in High School? Something useful and practical? Re-reading: Where is the centre head stud nut?

Any ideas where to get this condenser? I could try Bratton's, but anywhere locally that might have it or is it that specialized?

Gas is fresh, no crud! Gas comes pouring out of the carburetor when the plug is removed, obviously not the carburetor. Guess I had better get a new coil and condenser? Someone else suggested I keep this to the Model A forum, but this started out as me questioning whether I should have just saved for another decade and gotten a perfect car. It 'evolved' into what it is. Maybe check out the Model A section and post responses there?