mrcvs
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Posts posted by mrcvs
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It was recently asked when I contemplated buying a brass era car at auction what my intended use was for it.
What do others use theirs for?
It was mentioned going on a tour. That’s nice if you are retired, it’s hard to plan anything like that, and my wife only has so much time off and might not enjoy such a thing more than a few hours on a Sunday afternoon.
Plus, you have to have a truck and trailer to haul from your residence to the tour location. To be honest, I can’t afford that and, if I could, the HOA would view my trailer as an eyesore.
What I see using it for is driving to a big car show 8 miles once a year to check out the automobiles others have. And driving to my trout stream 2 or 3 miles round trip several times a year. A Sunday afternoon drive possibly including a stop at an American Legion or VFW.
How do others use their brass era automobiles?-
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This isn’t likely what you expected, but I read this book long ago and I get it it’s a child’s book, but a major theme is Mr Toad’s reckless driving. It came out in 1908. I has forgotten what a delightful book it is—The Wind in the Willows, by Kenneth Grahame…
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38 minutes ago, 61polara said:
You never told us what state the vehicle is in and what state you are in. That is very important to obtain any kind of reliable information. If the seller states that it's easy to get a title on a bill of sale, then offer him a few hundred dollars extra to get the title. I think you will see the conversation change very quickly.
PENNSYLVANIA
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14 minutes ago, DAVES89 said:
I'm surprised you are looking at another brass era car after what you went through with trying to get/keep it running and then selling issues with your last one.
I have a potential garage bay available. We shall see.
That car I lost storage space and had to keep it out front and my wife had no patience when she had to look at it more than 24 hours.
Leads vack to my original post—lack of garage space and space to work under a roof. Never mind if it’s even heated or not.
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I should ask—just how desirable is a 1908 REO, in the whole scheme of things?
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1 hour ago, mercer09 said:
an easy 40k car, of which I would have paid 35k wo a title.
Most others seem to think no way no how without a title.
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IIRC, it has a Johnson, I purchased a K & D, but probably should go with a Zephyr, although not correct for 1917, as it seemed to work well on a 1930 Model A Ford I used to own.
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5 hours ago, 1912Staver said:
Hi Ed, I completely agree regarding the high H.P. brass cars. Relatively few in number. Perhaps less than 1000 cars worldwide ? There is always going to be enough deep pocket buyers to keep prices up for our lifetime.
45 H.P and down , still great cars . But some of us average means guys might get a chance to own them yet.
Please don't say pre 1925 project and crusher in the same sentence. It makes a couple of my projects nervous.
What would be the horsepower of that 1908 REO I was looking at?
Is there a list of 1915 and earlier high horsepower automobiles and I’m gu swing that’s above 45 horsepower.
IIRC, the Ford Model A is only 40 horsepower and that dates to 1928 to 1831.
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And more photographs…
I thank everyone for this.
How much does it affect the value of this REO?
I did not know until attending there was this problem and the forum told me today what a big deal it is!
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It was this 1908?REO at auction yesterday. Estate sale. Bill of sale provided, the estate doesn’t know where titles are or if they even exist. Applied to this and several other cars. I guess it’s best I wasn’t the winning bidder at 23k, needs more work to get running, runs “when towed”, basically all there, but needs some refabricated parts.
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4 hours ago, pkhammer said:
5. Wrong year on title.
6. Incorrect body style on title.
7. Odometer reading wrong on title.
8. Wrong signature on title or signed in wrong place.
My 1917 Maxwell was sold to me as a 1816 Maxwell. A list of production dates by serial number did remedy that and I don’t recall it being too difficult.
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It’s Pennsylvania. At an auction yesterday, some automobiles, including the one I was interested in, did not have titles. Only a “bill of sale”. How much does that affect the selling price?
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And no title. How does that work?
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39 minutes ago, 69merc said:
Hilarious!
I don't think you realize it yet, but you're doing everything right. Even this disappointing auction is more valuable experience. Keeping the wife happy is never an unworthy goal. The fact that you are a couple years over fifty and find these brass era cars exciting should tell you something too. You live in a great area with a valuable home. I wish you continued good success, and that you find the car you seek soon!
I actually attended the auction more for the educational experience than to actually come home with this automobile. Let’s see what the crowd is like. Who’s bidding. What would this car, and the other eight, bring? If I could bring it home reasonably, so be it, but I wasn’t quite sure if 23k was a bargain, fair, or overpriced. The fact that the individual who put it together bid 22k tells me that’s what it is worth, and that’s his business.
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1 hour ago, alsancle said:
My honest advice about the market for all collectible cars is that they will never be worth more than what you pay today. The exceptions are in the 1/10 of 1% category. Possibly some will go to zero in the not to distant future. So if any level of financial return is required buy the cheapest car that will keep your brain occupied.
You summarized my thoughts, I think. I didn’t think of it that way, however.
These brass automobiles may go down over time, but labor isn’t decreasing any and will certainly rise. So an automobile that needs work—over time, the decrease in price may be considerably offset by the higher cost of labor.
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And so what are they? My wife’s 2005 Jeep caught on fire and was totaled, and I suddenly may have a bay available, but having only one bay potentially available, I have only one chance to “get it right”.
Some thoughts. Brass era automobiles are generally, but not always, of internet to an older crowd. It seems like these cars, at best, will hold steady over the next decade, or maybe decline, even substantially.
My budget right now is under 50K. I came close to purchasing this 1908 REO at auction yesterday. It hammered at 23k, no buyer’s premium. Was in pieces when the owner passed away, an auto restoration business put it back together, was told it was running when towed. Needs new gas tank, water tank, maybe other unknowns. The gentleman who put it back together was the runner up bidder at 22k, which means it likely was worth at least that.
Not running and over 20k caused me to not bid. A non running vehicle, unless up and running in short order, would prove unpopular sitting in the extra bay.
Unrestored was the huge appeal of this REO to me. So much of the brass era stuff seems over restored and over polished. Maybe that’s what folks want and I’m misguided.
So, in what direction is the brass era car market heading?
Buy now or wait for something probably better or cheaper over the next decade? When the mortgage is paid off, my budget improves, but it might be waiting until then might result in a similar budget but a whole lot more car if prices diminish.
And, restored or unrestricted? Meaning mechanically sound, but original leather, original or old paint job, etc.
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Some of the early Buicks in the Bonham’s auction seem attractive as well. Right now, while still having a mortgage (until 2031), I’m stuck in the under 50k rut, as nice as the 1904 Cadillac is.
BUT, I think the whole point of this thread is about my limitations, and timing.
Mortgage paid off in 7 years. No longer have that burden. I retire about that time. Now have freedom—both time and where I can live and not be subjected to a specific location with cramped real estate limitations.
BUT, it might, or might not, just be that in 7 years, if interest wanes some more, I might just get that 1904 Cadillac in the under 50k range. Or, if not, at least by budget is larger and my limitations fewer. I don’t see prices of brass era vehicles skyrocketing anytime soon.
A lot of the brass era stuff looks shiny, heavily restored. The appeal of this 1908 REO is that it was not restored. That’s what I like, maybe others don’t, and maybe I’m misguided in my approach.
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38 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:
I have come to the conclusion that a person needs a minimum of two buildings . One nicely insulated, heated and with ample lighting for the actual shop. And a second , possibly bigger , but very basic building purely for storage. Parts , parts cars, future projects, all the big tools and things that you need over time but only use every now and then.
I should also ask and how do you afford all that? It’s sad I’m asking that, but southeastern Pennsylvania—southern Lehigh and Bucks counties—it’s hard to do even that.
I suppose I could live more rurally but I did just that right out of college and that was a no win situation. Minimum wage, a student loan payment that was a day and a half’s wages per month, no health insurance, and no retirement plan. No thank you, I’ll gladly take any day the situation I’m in—a third of an acre, a house, and an attached two bay garage and a driveway that parks 2 cars.
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1 hour ago, mechanician said:
That's understandably going to be a hard sell. However well it is presented it is a highly modified car that still has the reputation of it's name. Cartercar enthusiasts or brass curiosity seekers will miss the opportunity to experience it with its most prominent feature, and to those who would never have a Cartercar, it still is. It's like buying a Stanley with a model T drivetrain.
The REO sounds like it may have sold about right (depending on the exact nature of what's left to do). It doesn't sound like a bargain but perhaps a fair price.
How would one value the REO? I thought, a brass era care, unrestored, an old coat of paint applied decades ago, can get running according to the individual who put it back together and bid 22k on it—I thought very fairly priced. But, to be honest with you, it was worth more to me running today even if it cost me a bit more as having a car that is not running in the other garage bay where my wife’s extra car used to reside—is a hard sell to my wife.
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30 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:
I have come to the conclusion that a person needs a minimum of two buildings . One nicely insulated, heated and with ample lighting for the actual shop. And a second , possibly bigger , but very basic building purely for storage. Parts , parts cars, future projects, all the big tools and things that you need over time but only use every now and then.
Amen! You can say what you want about American Pickers, but one thing I see are individuals with the ability to at least have one or more outbuildings of size that they can fill with whatever they want, this often being automobiles. If I had something like that, either that REO would have come home with me today or the winning bidder would have paid a bit more. The ability to acquire something and store it until you get around to dealing with it, which very well may be never, is HUGE!
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5 minutes ago, TerryB said:
Back to the auction today in PA. From the listing for the Cartercar
2. 1912 Carter Car - 30 HP 5 passenger touring. The car utilized a friction drive system to get power to the rear wheels. Other manufacturers tried the same system. They all experienced the same failure in this operation. A major wear of the drive disc was the inability to transmit torque. The owner of this car, being a qualified machinist/mechanic, converted the car to a standard clutch and transmission. It is now a very reliable tour proven brass era car to be driven and shown. It is equipped with correct brass lamps, brake/headlights, interior diamond tuft leather. It has beautiful exterior lines, everything you would want in a brass car era.
Bid up to 15k and the owner said no sale & rightfully so.
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3 hours ago, ABear said:
Bloos comments are most likely correct, if fuel is pouring out, you have a failure with the float and or float valve.
Cork was commonly used in a lot of early carbs, was coated with shellac (which is alcohol soluble), The alcohol in fuels made since the 1960s would soften and remove the shellac and the cork becomes saturated with fuel.
Many carbs also used brass hollow floats, brass isn't affected by alcohol, however, brass floats are soldered together, the solder over time from temperature changes and vibration tends to crack allowing the float to suck in fuel each time the temp changes until in no long floats.
What type of float you have depends on what carb brand and model you have..
Post some pictures of the carb you have, there are some carb savvy people that most likely could identify your carb from pictures.
Carb may need torn down, cleaned and refreshed, but it may be possible to sub in a different brand from that time period.
Get the carb under control, then look into what is happening with the cooling system as the carb can affect the cooling system some.
I did find a post on this forum from yrs ago that you might find interesting..
The carburetor I had on it when purchased was a later one and has a cork float. It never worked right. It is on the car now as the replacement one I got was authentic and what was on the car originally, and even though it has a brass float, I’m not convinced it was going to work right, either, and it wasn’t simply a matter of swapping out one for the other. I was afraid I would retrofit for the other carburetor, not have it work, and then backtrack and have to retrofit it back to what it was.
Modern gas isn’t exactly helpful with regards to the matter.
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2 hours ago, Century Eight said:
As someone said earlier in this thread, get in contact with Lou Mandich in Unionville, PA, Last Chance Garage,. he works on early stuff. Also, if you are near Allentown, have you had any success in contacting Keith Flickinger at the NBCenter For Automotive Heritage (Bulgari Complex) right there in Allentown or any of the people that work there? They are hooked up with I believe Penn College and train on old cars. You should be able to network there as well as Das Aukfest close to you.
Okay, will do & good suggestions.
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Realistically, what’s a 1908 REO that needs some work to get it going but is all there, including the paper mache apron really worth?
23k seemed good, but maybe not?
Use of a brass era automobile
in HCCA General Discussion
Posted
That exactly describes my usage—for my own amusement. Drive back roads and enjoy.
I would only attend a local car show in it because it’s local. Just walk around a bit and see what other early cars show up.
While the tours seem neat in that, again, you can see what other early automobiles are out there, they are too distant, they require a great expenditure of time and money, and, admittedly, to drive for several days is not of interest to me. I drive to the beach a few times a year because my wife and I enjoy that. It’s 162 miles. The time it takes to drive that is about as much as I wish to drive at any given time. I realize that a brass era automobile would cover less distance in the same amount of time, but it’s the time driving that’s a factor.
I have never been a fan of long drives with regards to time and distance and longer trips usually result in a headache.