Guest spyhunter2k Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Well I wish I had good news to report. The second set of Intrax lowering springs (because the first set were from a bad batch and did not fit) fit just fine. BUT, the front end is sitting at about 27.5" down from 28" at the wheel well opening.That's right--the lowering springs dropped the car a whopping half-inch. To make sure that no settling needed to occur as with the rear before the full drop could be achieved, I ran the car over a series of three speedbumps about 30 times, which only settled them a tiny bit more.I can't figure out why these springs wouldn't lower the car almost the full 2" as advertised for an Eldorado. The amount of weight sitting on the front axle of the Reatta and Eldorado is very close, with the Reatta coming in roughly 175 lbs lighter in fron than the Cadillac. I sat on the front bumper to see if this small amount of additional weight is what would make the difference and the car barely budged 1/16", so that's not it.I'll be calling Intrax today to ask what's up.A pic is attached of the rear at it's final lowered position of 26 7/8" down from 28.5" and the front at 27.5. The difference is noticeable.Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spyhunter2k Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Let's try that attachment again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoreice Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Sounds like you need to take the reatta to Intrax and "let" them use it as a test platform. Have them spend their time and money to figure out their own product. I always hated being a beta tester for some company that didn't do their homework. Any chance the lower control arms are bottomed out on the rubber bump stops? Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CL_Reatta Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Sounds like the Intrax box might have "results may vary" printed on it with microscopic print <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spyhunter2k Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I suppose part of the difference could lie in the fact that the factory springs have sagged a bit, but I don't think they could have done so by any more than about one-half of an inch. The springs did lower it by one-half of an inch. That still leaves 1" more of drop that should have happened. At this point, I'm about to find some clamps. I'll just clamp the springs and add titanium banding around the coils being squeezed together to prevent release. Sounds extreme (and somewhat unsafe), but I'm not sure what else to do at this point. I don;t want to drive around a stuck-up looking car. I guess I could explore the possibility of relocating the upper mounting points for the struts, but don't know if this is even possible. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />Scott at Intrax wasn't in. I left a message. We'll see what he says... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoreice Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 How much suspension travel do you have now, and how far will the stock setup move? Are you sure nothing is hitting, rubbing, or at its travel limit? Have you tried the set up without the spring on the strut to see if the car will settle down that far? Did you measure the strut length with the stock spring and with the lowering spring and get 2" difference? Just winging it here but who knows, Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTakas Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 (edited) ----- Edited January 2, 2019 by DTakas (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogonuts Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 IF it aint broke, Don't fix it.Whats the big deal?Much trouble for just a 2" drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Champ: sometimes, it's the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MauiWowee Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Champ: sometimes, it's the challenge. </div></div>Well put, from our other pioneer.Could the strut be preventing the spring from giving the hoped for height? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoreice Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Any possible interference from the front sway bar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greg Ross Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Can't imagine the strut is providing any resistance to the neutral position/ height and it's far from bottomed out. Has to be the Springs' ride height. They screwed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogonuts Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Champ: sometimes, it's the challenge. </div></div>Yeah Right, Thats what BUSH said, an look what it got him into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 This is a Reatta, not a countryPresident John F. Kennedy:<span style="font-weight: bold">-"not because they are easy, but because they are hard"</span> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CL_Reatta Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Champ: sometimes, it's the challenge. </div></div>Yeah Right, Thats what BUSH said, an look what it got him into. </div></div>No comment, as I read what happened the last time politics got involved here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoreice Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Springs NOT politics. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spyhunter2k Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I know it can't be a matter of limited travel. The suspension certainly can accomodate more than a half-inch of travel without anything hitting. I'm thinking front suspensions usually have at least 6", right?I also don't see how the strut could be limiting things. The spring determines the height of the car, up to the car's maximum travel, so if the tire can only be deflected 4" or so upwards, the spring being weaker or shorter (or both)should allow the car to sit lower up to whatever that maximum point is, and I know that point is not a measly half-inch.Scott at Intrax hasn't returned my call yet--probably because he doesn't know what to tell me. I'll be trying him again this afternoon.Thanks for all of the comments so far, and please, if anyone thinks of a good idea, share it. A leaf spring can be de-arched. I wonder if a coil spring can be fatigued in some way, other than heating (which destroys the temper of the metal according to most experts), to get it to sit lower? Like maybe putting it in the spring compression machine overnight? That may sound dumb, but I'm running out of alternatives.I have looked into coil-overs, but they are all custom applications as far as I can tell. Does anyone know of a manufacturer that sells universal coil-overs? If so, that will likely be my next try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoreice Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Are the lowering springs lighter and/or shorter than the stock springs? My suggestion is to put the struts in without any springs, set it down on the ground, and measure everything. Unless you already did that at the beginning of the project and I missed it. Then take a set of stock springs and cut off 1/4 coil [use a chop saw and do not worry about how they fit in the strut], install, measure, remove, and repeat until you have the 2 inch drop. It may well take four or five tries to get the required drop. NOW send that spring to intrax and have them make a new spring that is that tall but has the ends in the right places to fit the strut. I have only seen coil-overs to replace standard shocks and springs not for struts. Hope this helps, Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spyhunter2k Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I don't have a safe way to compress the spring to allow its removal from the strut assembly. Even the shop hates to do this with their machine because they still feel the procedure is somewhat dangerous. I'm up for at least trying most things myself, but I don't think I want to fool with the front springs.That said, the cost to remove and reinstall the springs is about $100 each time, and I've already spend several hundred on all the times they've had them out so far. I don't really want to spend $400-500 more.Also, here's the thing. The current Intrax springs claim to be progressive rate, meaning that the coils are spaced closer together at the ends so that initially the spring compresses at a rate similar to stock, and only gets firm under heavier loads. So an aftermarket progressive rate spring will not sit at the same height as a normal spring, even though sitting in my garage under no load they may be the same height. I honestly don't know how much of the lowering an aftermarket spring accomplishes is due to it's being shorter than stock or weaker (lighter load rating) than stock. I couldn't compare the Intrax springs to my factory ones because they were in the car. Even if they weren't, the factory ones had been cut. I suppose I could have ordered a spare factory spring from the junkyard to compare with the Intrax ones before installation but didn't think about it at the time.I don't mean to discount the value of your suggestions, but I have to move forward and find a solution based on the assumption that this is my daily driver and that I don't have the machinery to remove and reinstall the springs several times, unless someone has come up with a safe way to decompress, remove, recompress and install coil springs on Macpherson struts at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 When I did my struts I rented a spring compressor kit from Advance. It worked pretty well and seemed pretty safe. They fit the coils well and have a safety-thing so it won't slip off.My brother's done them with C clamps before with success, but... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. Don't try that one at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spyhunter2k Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 I'll check on that. If I can do the remove and reinstall myself then that could make the trial-and-error cutting more feasible.I would still rather find a direct swap-in type of solution, though. I want my results to be easily duplicable by others also wanting to lower their cars. If my final solution involves any cutting, that may automatically put it outside the comfort zone of many.That being said, for the time being I am definitely willing to cut/hammer/squeeze, etc. to get the front down, until I figure out a more practical and easily repeatable permanent solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Can't remember how much it was, but you get it all back, and have 45 days to play with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredthegeek Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Anyone know what sort of spring rate we´re looking at for the stock springs? A coworker who used to race NASCARish things turned me on to a local spring supply house, who can do custom-rate leaf and coil springs to specs. Spring rate, coil diameter and free height/number of coils is I think the data they´d need. I am interested in some better suspenders for my 89 and this could be a workable option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoreice Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Jared, ask them if we can send a stock spring and the front end weight and have them roll up a 2" lowering spring. It may be a dumb idea but it might work. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spyhunter2k Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I'm back on with this project.When last I left it, I had cut my factory front springs and the front went down to 27.5" at the highest point of the wheel opening from the stock height of 28.5"(the rear has already been successfully lowered 1.5").Then I ordered an Intrax lowering springs for a '95 Cadillac Seville/CTS which uses the same spring as ours. The result was once again 27.5".I then ordered custom springs that have brought the car down to 27.25" in the front, still higher than the rear.I am asking that the spring shop make another set, and they would like me to take some measurements. He sent me three diagrams of different front suspensions.The spring shop may be able to make another set based on the ratio to the drop attempted vs. achieved with the first set, but they are asking for the extra reassurance of having these values if I can get them (heading out to crawl under my car)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTakas Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) ----- Edited January 2, 2019 by DTakas (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-a-n-i-e-l Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 How did you lower the rear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MauiWowee Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D-a-n-i-e-l</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did you lower the rear? </div></div>This was started a while back. Start HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ChevroletR Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Yes, I feel the same way as DTakas! Thanks for sticking with it and keep us posted! I'd love to lower my Reatta, but do it so I can still drive it daily and on these bumpy roads here in Michigan without hurting anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spyhunter2k Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I'm in discussions with the custom spring company right now. The engineers said that they were ready to make another set of springs based on believeing my front suspension geometry is a "1:1 ratio." I'm not sure what this ratio describes. Maybe it refers to reduction in spring height to reduction in ride height...?The problem is, this is the same ratio used when I originally requested a 2" drop for the front, and I only achieved a 1.25" drop. So if they're using this same ratio to try to bring me down an additional .75", they'll really only achieve an additional .5" or less. I asked them why they would use the same ratio when we already know that it must be off, but the tech I've been speaking with says that the engineers are adamant about the ratio being correct after studying a diagram of the Reatta front suspension that I sent over. I mentioned this in a previous thread, but the tech still believes that it's possible that my struts may have enough pressure in them to partially support the weight of the car and may be preventing the first set of springs from allowing the car to come down, but I don't think so (otherwise wouldn't the car feel VERY firm in front...?), and how would I test this anyway... I guess I could reinstall an old pair of struts but I just don't think that this is the problem...Will keep you all updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SheldonZ28 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 If im reading anything correctly here, i think its your calculations that may be a bit off, and the springs are actually settling just fine.When i put an LS1 into my iroc, the engine was 134lbs lighter then the old 305 Tuned port that was in there, the front end of the car raised 1.1"I installed 2" lower springs and saw about 1" or so of drop to the front, and the 2" to the rear so i ended up spacing the springs a little so it didnt look like the rear end say so low.Not sure if this will help you any, i know its not a direct comparison as the camaro's have the strut and coil spring separate in the modified macphearson strut setup. But, hopefully it can provide a little insite.Sheldonp.s. - Camaro guy's have been chopping half a coil off for ever to provide a 2" drop, so it cant be that bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spyhunter2k Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 If the second set of custom coils doesn't work, I'll cut one coil off the Intrax springs and reinstall them. They lowered the front about an inch while maintaing about the same spring rate as stock. The cut should take care of the extra inch. It will increase the spring rate, but this is needed anyway to prevent bottoming out from the dcreased travel, and the custom coils I've ordered have been increased 20% for this reason.The coils should be finished in less than two weeks, and I'll get the car into the shop as soon as I can after that to install them.I have new wheels and tires that I'm itching to install and want to wait to do so until the front comes down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now