The big brake conversion (and this time, it's real).

[Guest F14CRAZY]

All done!

After removing the stock hardware, I applied the rotor and bracket (rotor first, I learned <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

View of the bracket from above.

Pads and retainer clips. I went ahead with the Wearever Gold pads from Advance. Around $30 a set.

I then let the caliper pivot on the rear pin. The piston was not in far enough to clear the pads and rotor. What do we do?

That's where this device comes in. This whole process of installing brakes is new to me, so try not to laugh <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />. I thought the piston simply pushes in. With a C clamp, I got nowehere. Hmmm...visited Advance for a "caliper piston compressor" (heck I didn't know). When I told him what I did, and mentioned a '97 Aurora, the guy said to the other dude "sell this man a caliper." Uh oh. He said I may have messed up the threads with my physical violence with the C clamp, and explained how it's threaded (I didn't know <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />). He directed me to this thingy, which goes on the end of a 3/8'' socket extension. This fits into the slot-like things on the piston allowing you to turn it in. I didn't mean to photograph it, but I used the caliper grease on the slides and inside the boots. After assembly of both sides, I bled all 4 calipers out, draining the Teves resevoir first.

Mission complete. They were not effective until I braked while reversing a few times.

Now, was it worth it you ask? Yes. Without a doubt. I don't have to step on the pedal as far, maybe 1/4-1/3 less. Nosedive is also reduced. Braking generally feels "more sure". I do have to touchup the caliper paint, since I scuffed it a bit when figuring out how it goes together. I did the driver's side first, so its more scratched than the passenger side.

The lines reach fine, but the parking/emergency brake cable needs to be extended. I'll look into this soon.

I picked up a pack of "cooper's washers" (in the HELP! section). These are the soft metal washers that are used between the caliper and the square thing on the end of the brake line that has the bolt in the middle. I also used a new one on top. I guess the originals were okay, but might as well so I won't have to worry about a leak anytime soon. Also got new brake bleeder valves in the HELP! section. It seems my calipers were not damaged from my C clamp

I'll get to doing the fronts pretty soon. May be a little silly driving with these hott, red rear calipers but stock fronts. Keep in mind, my rears are currently larger than fronts (10.8'' versus 11''). And it's a performance upgrade, so that makes it okay for me to paint my calipers. At least they're not ricer drums...

Any questions or comments? Now I'll be able to show them off at the Homecoming <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest CL_Reatta]

oh man I'm drooling already <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> , GREAT JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shoreice]

Well done!!! Best of luck at college. you'll have the only Reatta on campus! Definite CHIC MAGNET! Have fun at homecoming and post lots of pictures. Kenny

[Reatta]

Sweet

[Guest F14CRAZY]

There you go. Should be painted on the calipers, though there's not really any room.

And BTW, I guess welcome back. I don't think I've seen you post

[jonlabree]

Looks good & at least his nutz are covered.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

The rears have been doing well. While making a swift turn and braking hard at the same time, the car actually oversteered <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I'm proceeding to obtain the parts for the front brakes. I think this time I'll go ahead and get new parts. In another post, I made the point that I would actually save like $5 by buying reman loaded calipers than buying the used salvage parts and new pads (and having to clean them up and all). Should have another update in a few days.

[jonlabree]

What about the emergency brake?

[Guest F14CRAZY]

I'll get back to you on that. It's zip-tied back there right now. I need to get underneath and investigate if it can be re-routed, because right now, it seems the cable is too short. Instead of the cable connecting to the caliper from the rear, the Aurora brake cable comes from the center of the car.

[shoreice]

Maybe Aurora E=brake cable?

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Haven't though of that one <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Nice thing is, GM doesn't totally redesign things if they don't have to (in some cases, like this), so interchangability can work where it wasn't thought of before.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Dunno why I've forgotten to update this...

But I went to Advance last Sunday and ordered Cardone remanufactured, loaded front brake calipers. They come with the bolts and all the hardware, and the bracket. Other reman calipers they had do not have the bracket, which is important to have (considering I don't have any at all). They had to be shipped in.

They finally got them today, but I opened the box, and saw familiar rear brake calipers <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. I was rather unpleased. The manager who knows me said he could pay for 2nd day shipping of an extra $4. I said no, because I've been waiting since Sunday. I had him order them with overnight shipping, so I should have them tomorrow morning. Bad thing is that it's $28 more, which I paid. He said he cant makeup the entire thing (I think he should...) but when I pick them up he can reimburse me a bit using a "customer satisfaction" option. Sucks. But anyway, I'll be picking them up tomorrow. I have to go up north but intend to bring everything with me and install them there.

I'm gonna go to Mid States Bolt and Screw and buy me a cobalt steel 14mm drill bit. I don't like cheap bits breaking on me. Will keep you guys updated.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

SUCCESS!

Yesterday I picked up the reman loaded calipers from Advance ($70 each, $40 core each) and new Wearever rotors ($24 or so each). Picked up another can of Duplicolor red caliper paint, about $8.

My dad wanted me up at the cottage this weekend, so I brought the parts and everything I needed up with me. My Alltel wireless dialup is a bit too slow for my to upload the pix that well, but I did take a few. The rotors are quite a bit bigger (10.8'', now 12''). They're also considerably thicker. The Aurora calipers are just bigger too. Pads are thick and with lots of surface area.

The reman calipers come with new crush washers for the brake line. My dad operated the brake pedal while I ran the bleed screw.

Note to everyone: if buying an air compressor, find the one that's the biggest you can afford. Then, buy the next biggest. The cheap Harbor Freight compressor that was like $70 we have here wasn't very good at running my pnuematic drill. I couldn't drill one of the bolt holes without taking a break in the middle for it to build up more air. But oh well, it's just here to blow up quad tires pretty much. Though even with the 50 gallon or so compressor at home, I can still run it out of air.

The 9/16''/14.3 mm drill bit was the perfect size, as Greg noted. High quality, new drill bits are wonderful <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. I probably had one at home, but I went ahead and got a Hitachi bit from Lowes. Was the only brand in that size that was in stock. Around $14, but it's a sharp one.

Yesterday, I first went to Mid States Bolt and Screw for the drill bit, cuz they have that kind of stuff and quality bits, but they didn't have one in stock. I went ahead to Lowes. Home Depot was closeby, but I've had a lot of bad experiences with them not having what I need. Here, I got the Hitachi bit. I then called NAPA about the caliper bolts (Advance has to order a whole brake hardware kit). They said they had them, so I go there, but it was just the slide bolt <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. Couldn't find anything, but could tell me it's a 14mm x 2'', coarse thread. With this, I went back to Mid States and got 4 of them with small-surface-area flat washers. All in grade 8. These were sized perfectly. I didn't have a metric socket big enough, but a 7/8'' worked just fine.

It seems like the brake lines are almost too short. Ideally, they should have maybe an extra inch. However, do keep in mind that with the vehicle lifted, the suspension is at it's extreme. Assembly it and drop it back down, and everything's good.

I am going to try a Select 60 wheel so I can say for sure if they'll fit around the calipers or not.

Will get back with the pictures.

So, how are they you ask? They're great. Don't have to step the pedal down as far for the same stops. In hard braking, they quickly bring the supercharged, 3400 lbs monster to a halt. And hey, they're big, bright, and sexy. The difference is obvious once you drive it.

[shoreice]

Sounds great! Are the new calipers still single piston? IMHO use braided stainless brake lines when you replace the rubber lines. you'll have even better feel and control. When will you do your braking distance tests? Can't wait for the results, Kenny

[Guest F14CRAZY]

I'll conduct some tests this week. I didn't know stainless lines could improve braking like that. Will keep in mind.

From my understanding, the calipers are single piston

[Guest F14CRAZY]

THE PIX!

This pic isn't of much use

Also can't tell much here, but this is one of the reman calipers with a pad out of it. I'm not sure of the grade of these loaded pads, but they're expensive calipers, so hopefully they're not crappy

Here we go. This is an old rotor on top of a new one.

The new 12'' ones are really that much thicker.

Here we are with the old caliper and rotor off. The brake fluid drips fairly well and will empty the resevoir before too long.

Top hole drilled. The size difference actually isn't that great. Do notice my AC Delco PF52 filter, and my missing harmonic balancer cover, and my oil drips (I have tightened everything I have access to, but hardly leaves any marks when parked overnight).

Bottom hole drilled. Before drilled the holes, I held the new caliper up to the holes, just to be certain they're the right ones.

Brake line now connected. The reman caliper came with new crush washers. You can probably tell the hose looks a little stressed, but is perfectly fine when the wheel's back on the ground, and isn't an issue to connect the line anyway. I will keep stainless braided lines in mind though.

Passenger side all done. There is a left and a right caliper, so keep that in mind (they're marked). Please pardon my brake dust. Weather's been crappy lately and haven't had a good few hours to hand wash.

The driver's side before conversion. The big difference is obvious

Comparison of both calipers (not a good one though, I admit)

Not too much difference from the top though

And lastly, another comparison shot of both rotors. I'd imagine it would take a lot more to warp the 12 inchers.

Will get back with you guys on if a 16'' '91 or Select 60 wheel will clear, and some real tests.

[Guest EDBS0]

Did you bed them and let the smoke out?

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Eh say what?

[Guest EDBS0]

Most people after a great brake job using only the best parts do not finish the job off properly. They think they are through after torquing the last bolt down and kicking the wheel blocks out. NOPE! lots to do yet

After testing in the driveway to make certain I still had brakes by doing 2 or 3 stops from 1 or 2 mphs I was ready to go around the block.

Accelerate to 25 mph and gently brake to 5 mph. Do not allow the vehicle to come to a complete stop.

Repeat the braking 25 mph to 5 mph 3 more times and then park in the driveway and let them cool for 4 or 7 hours. I usually leave them overnight.

Drive normally for 2 or 3 days with no hard stops and then bed the pads.

Now bed the pads. Sorry no xxx here.

Choose a quiet highway or road of your choice. Accelerate 60 mph to 70 mph and brake hard to 5 mph. Very hard to 5 mph! Again do not allow the vehicle to come to a complete stop.

Repeat 5 to 7 times IMMEDIATELY! If your pedal gets soft or you feel the brakes going away, then you've done enough.

On the last stop the brakes should be very hot and even smoking! Your stopping distance could be 3X what the first stopping distance was. Sometimes the rotors and pads will get so hot even braking with full force will barely slow the car down. Do this on a quiet deserted road.

You are in full brake fade. AND may not be able to stop the car. This is good. Your brake rotors and pads are now full bedded. Some call it letting the smoke out. Yes they will smoke and stink.

Drive for 20 or 30 minutes to cool your brakes and you are done. Your brakes are now proper bedded and again I usually let them rest the night.

Your brakes will have improve pedal feel, reduce or eliminate brake squeal, and bedding will extend the life of your pads and rotors. AND they will work very very well.

If you have cheap crappy rotors you probably warped them. If you have cheap crappy pads then they faded after 1 or 2 stops. Better to discover this sooner than later.

So do you want to know about cryo treating your pads and rotors? Nope you arn't ready cryo treating info

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[Guest F14CRAZY]

I can do that

[DTakas]

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Edited January 2, 2019 by DTakas (see edit history)

[Guest F14CRAZY]

I asked my GM Goodwrench technician (he prefers Buicks) that I met on GMinsidenews. He's got about 2k posts there...

Find a realitivly empty road

and work on gentle stops, working upwards from 10mph

1st stop 10mph, second, 15, third 20, fourth 25, fifth 30

leave time between stops to let the brakes cool

this should allowe the pads and the rotors to "mate" properly without "blueing" the rotors

However, he said that since I've already logged a few hours of normal driving, no special care is needed.

[Guest EDBS0]

Bedding allows your brakes to reach thei...ake Pad Bed-In.

Caution: After installing new pads/rotors or a big brake kit, the first few applications of the brake pedal will result in almost no braking power. Gently apply the brakes a few times at low speed in order to build up some grip before blasting down the road at high speed. Otherwise, you may be in for a nasty surprise the first time you hit the brakes at 60 mph.

When following these instructions, avoid doing it around other vehicles. Bedding is often best done early in the morning, when traffic is light, since other drivers will have no idea what you are up to and will respond in a variety of ways ranging from fear to curiosity to aggression. An officer of the law will probably not understand when you try to explain why you were driving erratically! Zeckhausen Racing does not endorse speeding on public roads and takes no responsibility for any injuries or tickets you may receive while following these instructions.

From a speed of about 60mph, gently apply the brakes a couple of times to bring them up to operating temperature. This prevents you from thermally shocking the rotors and pads in the next steps.

Make a series of eight near-stops from 60 to about 10 mph. Do it HARD by pressing on the brakes firmly, just shy of locking the wheels or engaging ABS. At the end of each slowdown, immediately accelerate back to 60mph. DO NOT COME TO A COMPLETE STOP! If you stop completely and sit for any length of time with your foot on the brake pedal, you will imprint pad material onto the hot rotors, which can lead to vibration, uneven braking, and could even ruin the rotors. With some less aggressive street pads, you may need fewer than eight near-stops. If your pedal gets soft or you feel the brakes going away, then you've done enough. Proceed to the next step.

The brakes may begin to fade slightly after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A strong smell from the brakes, and even smoke, is normal.

After the 8th near-stop, accelerate back up to speed and cruise for a while, using the brakes as little as possible. The brakes need 5 to 10 minutes to cool down. Try not to become trapped in traffic or come to a complete stop while the brakes are still hot.

If club race pads, such as Hawk Blue, are being used, add four near-stops from 80 to 10mph. If full race pads, such as Performance Friction 01 or Hawk HT 14, are being used, add four near-stops from 100 to 10 mph.

After the break-in cycle, there should be a slight blue tint and a light gray film on the rotor face. The blue tint tells you the rotor has reached break-in temperature and the gray film is pad material starting to transfer onto the rotor face. This is what you are looking for. The best braking occurs when there is an even layer of of pad material deposited across the face of the rotors. This minimizes squealing, increases braking torque, and maximizes pad and rotor life.

After the first break in cycle shown above, the brakes may still not be fully broken in. A second bed-in cycle, AFTER the brakes have cooled down fully from the first cycle, may be necessary before the brakes really start to perform well. This is especially true if you have installed new pads on old rotors. If you've just installed a big brake kit, the pedal travel may not feel as firm as you expected. After the second cycle, the pedal will become noticeably firmer. If necessary, bleed the brakes to improve pedal firmness.

Your teckie knows [censored] about bedding brakes. Send him a copy of this and the linked pages.

[Guest EDBS0]

PS: I love your work!

[Guest MauiWowee]

Have you tried the S/S wheel yet? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Someone: keep bugging me about trying a Select 60 wheel.

I almost learned the hard way...when I got home from jet skiing, I found my driver's rear tire to be pretty much flat, and could tell I was driving a while with it that way <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. It got poked by something. I don't think it's harmed, or so I hope not, and will take it to Budget Tire on money. Thankfully, I was home. I tried using the Reatta donut spare, and it DOES NOT fit on the rear. Didn't try it, but since the front calipers and all are larger still, I can bet the spare won't fit there. Good thing was that I had a flat on the rear, and am using one of my old stock 15''s for the time being. I never thought of this happening during my conversion. So, I would suggest getting an Aurora donut spare if you do this conversion. Otherwise, you will not have a spare

[Guest MauiWowee]

Have you tried the S/S wheel yet? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Thank you for the reminder <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[Guest F14CRAZY]

In case I forgot to post...

The stock '89 Reatta temporary "donut" spare will NOT fit the front or rear. So, I picked up a '97 Aurora spare.

It fits fine. Now, the problem is, it won't fit in the spare tire well. it's simply too big.

[Guest MauiWowee]

Have you tried the S/S wheel yet? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Guest F14CRAZY]

You just keep adding more smileys on the back of that <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hmm, since I'm dealing with Reatta wheels and all, I might as well do it tonight.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

This is the Reatta's stock spare tire (right) and the Aurora spare tire on the left. It really is that much bigger. Since I don't feel like reworking my trunk well, I've got it wrapped up nice in a couple trash bags. Woo hoo, more to roll around in my trunk <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. The tag said it was actually from a '02 Saturn VUE and is 16'', but it fits fine. I'm sure it interchanges with like half the cars GM has made in recent history. I did check it on my front and it clears the calipers fine.

And thanks to Maui, I checked out a Select 60 wheel, and YES, IT FITS! No issues at all. With this being known, you can install the larger front brakes on your '91 or '90 Select 60 without having to use aftermarket wheels.

[Guest MauiWowee]

Well, thank you. That's good news about the 16" wheel. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

And if I can ever assist you again by bugging you to get something done, just ask. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Thanks again Maui. Will remember that <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Guest Greg Ross]

So the question begs to be asked

What does the '91 or '90 Select Sixty have for a spare?

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Hmmm...I'll have to check. However, I'm thinking it's the same old 15'', since the Select 60 and '91s didnt HAVE to clear big calipers.

Well, Greg, what do you have for a spare?

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Wanted to make a follow up...

I have not had any issues at all with the conversion <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />. I will make an update when I figure out the parking brake cable situation.

I also suggest trying to use brake paint and painting the non-wearing surfaces of the rotors silver. They won't rust, and you'll keep blingin <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />