New tires

[Oxnard Montalvo]

I have to get new tires (650x16) for my '38 Special and need a little guidence as to which ones to buy. I prefer radials for all the obvious reasons, and I wonder if my rims will accept tubeless tires. Thanks for your consideration.

[Lake Powell]

If you can figure out how to do a "search" of this forum, you should find "threads" where this subject has been thoroughly discussed. At the risk of repeating other posters more "expert" than I, let me sumarize what you will find.

There is something a bit screwy in the way most, (but not all) of the so-called "collector/bias" tires are built. They seem far more prone to tread separation-type failures, and "hunt" every road imperfection. Some of us remember how REAL old-style bias tires behaved; they were NOT as "squirrely" as MANY ( again, not ALL) of the current "repro/collector" bias tires.

Additionally, you freqently find the durn things are WAY out of round, making a smooth ride impossible. Even if you can find a tire shop today with one of the the old style tire truing rigs, you will still have a devil of a time balancing them even after they are made round.

Bottom line as to bias tires - you will be gambling that you will get a product that will give you good service.

I recommend radials for ALL applications. Radial tires are built to modern SAE/ASTM specs, so you will get a ROUND tire that will run much cooler, give a ride and handling superior to even the best of the REAL "old style bias" tires that came on the cars when they were new.

Some writers (even some of the collector car tire suppliers) write that "radials will put more of a strain on the wheel than a bias tire". I find this complaint hard to understand, for two reasons.

First of all, the amount of pressure trying to push the tire, and hence the wheel, apart, is a function of the tire pressure. Same air pressure-same force pushing out on the side-wall and hence the rim.

Secondly, the modern radial side-wall is SO much more compliant than a bias side-wall, that forces coming up from the tread are distributed far more evenly.

Several vendors advertise radial white walls that have the APPEARANCE of so called "old timey" tires. if you look in recent issues of Hemmings, you will find page after page of tire vendors advertising these.

Good luck !

(from time to time they throw a tire into my cage for me

to chew on, so I have become something of an expert on them....!)

[Oxnard Montalvo]

Thanks for the reply.

(I tried to do a search because I remember this subject being beaten like a rented mule but I got nowhere.)

[ex98thdrill]

Is this car going to be a car that is driven or a car that is going to be point judged?

[Oxnard Montalvo]

I'm not concerned with point judging, safety is more of an issue.

Right now I'm leaning towards Diamondbacks and going tubeless.

[ex98thdrill]

I'm not a tire expert by any means, but if you ever planned on having your car point judged, then I'd advise you to avoid the radials. Radial tires will cost you points should you decide to have your car point judged (if you didn't already know).

I would hate to see anyone spend money for tires for their car, take the car to get it judged, lose points over their tires, and then have to buy tires again to make the car factory correct.

[Guest BillP]

I have LT light truck conventional bias ply tires of modern construction on one of my LaSalles, a 37, similar in chassis design to your car. They look period correct, ride well and are modern in terms of technology and build. An alternative to radials. Don't know about the judging thing.

[ex98thdrill]

Bill, just to give you some insight on myself:

My father and I are currently doing a frame up restoration of a '42 Ford fire truck. The new tires that we bought for it cost us $1,200. Radials were not available in 1942 when the truck was built. If we were to put radials on a truck that didn't have radials available in 1942, and have the truck point judged (which it will be when it's done), we'd lose points on having six (6) incorrect tires on that truck. The point deductions on having six (6) incorrect tires could prevent us from winning a first junior when the time comes to get the truck judged. In our scenario, the fully restored truck may never win any awards based on the points deductions of the tires. In our case, if we bought the wrong tires, and wanted to make the truck right so that we could win awards with it, that would mean spending another $1,200.

In your case, your car is probably a driver, and the tires are fine. If you should ever decide to show your LaSalle at a National Meet and you are going for awards, I would recommend that you put the correct tires on your car before attempting to win awards with it. If you decide to never attempt to win any awards at a National Meet, or don't care about winning awards, radial tires are fine, and may even be better depending on how you use the vehicle.

Please understand that the AACA judging system does not specify what points are taken from a vehicle and why they were taken. Without knowledge of the judging process, a person could bring a car to a show, not win the awards that they were out to win, and be left scratching their head wondering what went wrong.

To save someone from going through that agony, I often will try to educate them of our rules. I would rather educate someone on the rules, than have someone keep bringing cars to AACA meets, not win the awards that they are trying to win, and get upset and leave AACA.

[Guest BillP]

Thank you for the thoughtful and detailed anaysis.

I don't have this particular car judged, it is all an original (paint and upholstery) 45,000 mile car. Eh....except for the tires. Going from memory which I am too lazy to reach for the bookshelf and confirm, the tires are 7.50x16 Firestone LT, as opposed to OE size 7.00x16. Cosmetically, there is a diamond motif embossed around the sidewall close to the tread, and in the size designator appears the appears the letters LT. The tires look very good on the car and ride well with none of the wander or twitch reported with modern/vintage bias tires. Thus my speculation that they may considered as an option.

As far as showing is concerned, it would be my preference to display the vehicle for the curiosity of other owners, noting of course the tire discrepancy.

A '42 Fire truck would be rare, having been used hard during a time when all truck production went to the war effort. Was it in bad shape? Photos?

[ex98thdrill]

You're welcome Bill. I'd rather take the time to explain things rather than see someone shell out money on a restoration project and then see them have to shell out more money to make something correct because they didn't know and no one bothered to tell them.

As for the truck, it wasn't bad. Floorboards and cab corners (mostly the salt from shoes). The floorboards were olive drab, the rest of it was delivered to American LaFrance as a black cab and chassis. Where the paint gun could reach, it got painted, red, where the gun didn't reach, it stayed black, while in between was red overspray. The truck was retired in 1971, sold in 1981, we got it in 2001, and we're now the 3rd owners.

E-mail me at home and I'll send you pictures.