1951 Stude Fender Welting - painted or not?

[Bob Stein]

I am about to detail and touch up my 1951 Studebaker Land Cruiser, and have new fender welting for the rear fenders. I have seen this both painted and non-painted (black) on restored cars. Does anyone know what the correct version is? I have not been able to find any factory period photos that help.

Thanks!

[Aanderson44]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am about to detail and touch up my 1951 Studebaker Land Cruiser, and have new fender welting for the rear fenders. I have seen this both painted and non-painted (black) on restored cars. Does anyone know what the correct version is? I have not been able to find any factory period photos that help.

Thanks! </div></div>

While I am no Studebaker expert, not by a long shot, I would have to believe that those body shells were painted before the rear fenders were assembled on the cars (in fact, I believe I have seen pics from the factory floor showing the bodies painted, but without rear fenders attached.

This leads me to believe that the welting would not have been painted prior to the bolting of the fenders to the body--vinyl doesn't hold lacquer all that well if it is flexed for an installation like that--in fact, lacquers don't really stick tightly to soft vinyls.

I do remember Dad's '49 Plymouth having black vinyl welting around the rear fenders, and have seen too many pics of 49-52 Chevies with obvious black vinyl welting, so I really do believe that standard industry practice was to install the rear fenders after they were painted, with fresh, black vinyl welting.

That said, I suspect that when one sees any car of this era with painted welting, that's a strong indication that the car was repainted without pulling off the rear fenders.

Art

[jw24spec6]

i was told that on my 50 champion that the welt is painted with the body panels. jim

[Aanderson44]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i was told that on my 50 champion that the welt is painted with the body panels. jim </div></div>

May be, but: As a long-time professional automotive modeler, and research/designer of both model car kits and diecast miniatures, I do an awful lot of digging for pictures for projects. In fact, I have just recieved the first samples of a 1:24 scale '51 Studebaker Commander Starlight Coupe that I designed for the Johnny Lightning brand, and have in front of me the book "The American Automobile Factory" (Byron Olson & Joseph Cabadas), MBI Publishing Company. On page 125 there is a full side-on view of a '47 or '48 Studebaker Commander 4-dr sedan body, on the conveyor at South Bend, in what one might term the "Trim & Final" department of the body plant (which was upstairs from the final assembly line). The body is fully assembled, and fully painted, ABSENT the rear fenders in this stage of assembly.

Now, for the fender welting, which was then, and the replacement welting still is, a cotton fabric, wrapped around cotton cording, impregnated with black vinyl (PVC), to have painted the welting and THEN assembled it between fender and body would have been very nearly impossible to do without the paint cracking and peeling--in all my experience, I have never seen common nitro-cellulose lacquer (the only kind available back in the 40's and early 50's) adhere well enough to flexible PVC to withstand the flexing and bending needed in order to get the welting around the fender opening, slap the fender on, and bolt it. Enamel would not have worked either, as the enamels of the day simply do not dry on flexible vinyl, but remain sticky long enough to seem like forever. The only logical, cost-effective way of installing such welting on an assembly line was to do it when the fender is assembled to the body, and if it cannot be painted or otherwise colored, then it would have been black. In the case of your Studebaker, the body was painted before the rear quarters were bolted on.

Also, in the immediate past issue of Collectible Automobile Magazine, there is a comprehensive article on the 50-51 Bulletnose Studebaker, on page 59, picture #10 shows a storage field filled with new '51 Studebakers, and the car in the foreground is a fairly light colored 4dr sedan, with, guess what? Black fender welting.

I have found that regardless of what "someone" tells me about the correct factory practice, fit, or finish, when doing a project that calls for serious accuracy (and a client paying several hundred dollars for a scale model replica--or several thousand dollars for my researching and laying out a subject for commercial production), there is no substitute for contemporaneous pictures of the actual car, as it was produced, back in the day. On such do I base my replies to questions of what, how, and perhaps why, a particular detail on a particular car is done the way I might advise.

Art

[jw24spec6]

my source is a retired studebaker employee,but you are correct in that it should be researched more. jim

[Aanderson44]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my source is a retired studebaker employee,but you are correct in that it should be researched more. jim </div></div>

Jim,

I understand. However, given that Studebaker closed their South Bend assembly line in early 1964 for the final time, and they stopped using fender welting with the end of the 1952 model year as far as cars were concerned, your informant's memory could be just a little bit worse for the wear on this issue--1952 having been 53 years ago.

Your best bet in such things is to look up as many 'contemporaneous' photographs as you can--look for pictures of light colored cars (by contemporaneous, I mean pictures that were shot at the time these cars were being built--definitely NOT restored ones--always go back to original cars when new wherever possible when chasing down information such as this thread.

I've seen way too many original cars of the era of the Studebaker in question here, and have learned that there were certain basic practices in assembly and painting cars (of any era, frankly) that were virtually "canon law" in the industry--for whatever reason.

But, in the matter of fender welting, unless it was pre-colored, which I doubt, to have painted that stuff before assembly would have been very counter-productive: Lacquers do not adhere at all well to soft PVC, they simply crack and flake off the instant you bend the stuff, and enamels just plain do not dry at all--the plasticizers in PVC welting (which keep it soft and pliable) also prevent enamel paint from drying past the 'sticky' stage.

Art

[jw24spec6]

i agree, he could be wrong. i questioned the painted welt on my car when i bought it. black would look better and make more sense. jim

[Aanderson44]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i agree, he could be wrong. i questioned the painted welt on my car when i bought it. black would look better and make more sense. jim </div></div>

Just a thought here (now, why didn't I think of this earlier?): When looking at a car, any car, on which fender welting has been painted somewhere along the way, a bit of detective work. Look closely (magnifying glass if necessary) at the welting itself, as it relates to the surrounding sheet metal. If the welting was painted AFTER the fender was installed (and I suspect this is a common thing among collectors not wishing to do a full restoration), then there should be evidence of a "fillet" between the welting and the neighboring sheet metal, where paint has flowed into the tiny crevasse next to the welting. Even if the paint has cracked, this paint fillet should still be quite evident--as it would be very, very irregular in shape. It would be virtually impossible, when painting with any sort of shop or production spray gun to not have the paint run into, and collect in the joint between welting and sheet metal--shop & production guns simply shoot too much material for there not to have been a flowing of paint into cracks and crevasses.

On the flip side of this, if there clearly is no excess paint in the crevasse between welting and sheet metal, then the welting may have been painted prior, but there should be cracks in the paint on the welting where it was necessarily bent and flexed for installation.

Again, this is detective work, very detailed detective work, and does require a careful inspection all along the length of the welting, and on both sides of each welt to determine. But, I believe my thesis to be valid here--you might check it out. Of such researching, not only pictures which can give evidence of "factory fit, finish and practice", but also on an actual car, gives a true idea of just how certain things were done.

Art

[starlightcoupe]

I have to agree with everything Art has said about researching archives, photos, et al. If I were a retired Studebaker paintline worker, I could say these are the facts. I'm not.

I have a totally original 1933 Rockne that is fully functional and would be a cinch to restore but I'm told "Don't, don't, don't." Restorers want to find these cars to see if the length of the stitch in the seat is correct or the grill to hood welt is stitched in first or out first.

I've been in the Studebaker Drivers Club for thirty years and, from what I've seen and read, the welt should be body color. But, as someone who enjoys owning and driving--as apposed to looking at--these cars, I think the welt should be the color you want it to be. And I would hope you are able to drive it and enjoy it. 9000% of the public won't know if the welt is correct but they'll appreciate a fine car when they see it.

When I bought my 51 Starlight Coupe it was very deteriorated but unmolested and the welt was detectibly body color.