When did VINs match engine #s?

[Twitch]

What year did engine numbers and body VINs begin to match? Was it 1955?

[Guest Albert]

Yes in 55 the body # and the engine# are the same (or should be unless the motor has been changed), yet in some states they have used the engine # as a vin # before 55 or the cowl # as the vin whic can cause some problems if the motor was changed. I heard of a case where a guy went to regester his model A body and could not because someone had rebuilt a model A motor and regestered his car by the motor, and it happened to be the original motor out of his car...

[Mr.Pushbutton]

1956 too! some states got confused/weird on Packard vin#'s due to the stamped "anti-theft" # on the firewall. My former employer had 20 Packards at one time (while I worked for him) and depending on what state it was last titled in, or how dull a pencil the previous owners were, some vin's were all screwed up, which became a nightmare when he sold most of them at auction.

[Packard8]

I have one mystery motor that stumped me for a while. It came from a ?51 Patrician and has a correct serial number of J6xxxxx stamped on the block pad. It has a 359 aluminum head, 359 crankshaft, pistons, rods, etc??.it is in fact a factory 359 (by looking at the casting date of Sept ?54).

I?m guessing it was a dealer installed replacement motor that came with a blank pad and the dealer stamped the original serial number that matched the VIN number on the title.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

55's and 56's:

we have to be careful of our terminology on this. I am often the most guilty of such sloppiness. The vin is the vin (sic) in the form of YYCC-9999 where yy is the last 2 digits of the year, CC is the model and 9999 is the numeric sequence of the car as it came off of the line. I think we all understand that initialy. HOWEVER, the term "engine number" is a completely DIFFERENT number from the vin. OR to put it another way there is a vin on the body tag and on the engine. There is also another number called the engine number as per my Packard documentation that has nothing to do with the vin. Or to put it even another way the engine has 2wo different numbers stamped on it: the vin and an engine number.

I state the above only because there has been some confusion over the years as to which number was being discussed relative to the engine due to terminology used. The ENGINE vin is the vin and the engine number is something completely different and unrelated to other numbers on the car regardles of what/where they mite be.

[Twitch]

This VIN matching engine # was industry wide in 55 though right? I was just thinking it's kind of a bad thing in the long run with people becoming faint if you tell them your 62 Vette has a different engine. I mean stuff happens and different engines of the same type REALLY shouldn't devalue a car in my opinion. I know, I know the accepted rules of auto etiquette leans to matching numbers. Oh well..... <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

[Packard8]

I believe the YYCC-0000 sequence started in 1954 with they jumped from the 26th to the 54th series in one year. The real confusion is in what different states considered the Vehicle Identification Number as shown on the title. At one time I had three 1953 parts cars with CA titles?.two used the engine number as the VIN (L2xxxxx) and the other had the YYCC-0000 format on the title. I believe CA stopped using engine numbers as VIN numbers on the titles in the mid 1950?s, not sure about other states.

AFAIK, there is only one ?engine number?, the one stamped on the machined pad, although the components (block, head, bell housing etc) have individual part numbers and/or casting numbers (at least on the straight 8?s).

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

as far as i know there was NO industry standard until about the late 60's. Each company just did their own thing. The term VIN was something concocted by the Fed (circa late 60's) to standardize the indistry. Prior to that the TERM "VIN" did not exist or at least was not generaly understood as such.

[Twitch]

Yeah I was trying to figure when engine numbers and body numbers first matched. My 65 Nova has a plate in the door jam and on the firewall which match, but if there are any numbers on the block I can't see them- just a number on the intake manifold which could be a part number. I'd bet there is no number that matches the body on the engine.

I've seen cars for sale touting "matching numbers" from 1960s era but never thought about it. If the engine number is somewhere on the block it sure isn't easy to see since my Nova has the whole front end off and nothing is visible. No way to see anything unless it's under the exhaust manifolds way down underneath.

Oh, I just found an good article talking about Corvette #s but it goes for numbers in general. For example GM didn't put the body number on engines before 1960. http://www.corvettemagazine.com/2000/august/numbers/numbers1.asp

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

here's an odd one: i have a scrap block painted blue and it appears to be original paint. "vin" = SP 21161. Engine number (on rear boss) = |6|, where "|" is actualy a verticle bar so the 6 could be a 9. Bellhousing date is 9/29/55 with cast part number 440275-A

[Guest Randy Berger]

Keith, what is the serial number, ie the YYMM-NNNN on the surface to the right of the oil filler tube?

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

It is the "SP 21161" number that appears next to the filler tube in the same place where one would ordinarily find the YYMM-nnnn formated number. There is NOT any such YYMM-NNNN formated number on the block. Just the SP 21161 and the |6| ( or maybe its |9| )on the upper right rear corner.

[Packard8]

That IS odd. I have a marine conversion V8 with "SP 003" stamped next to the filler tube. I wonder if the "SP" could stand for "Studebaker Packard" and these were motors that were destined for AMC or other non-Packard uses?