1955 Dallas Auto Show T-L Chassis

[WCraigH]

Here are the scanned glossy 8x10s provided by Mr.Pushbutton:

1955 Dallas Auto Show T-L Chassis (small 82K)

1955 Dallas Auto Show T-L Chassis (big 446K)

Message to PackardV8 from Mr.Pushbutton: ...the chassis in the photo only needs a HEI distributor, shorting buttons in place of the T-L compensation circuitry, and radio shack switches in place of the stock gear selector buttons to be "perfect" for next year.

[Mr.Pushbutton]

Glad you liked it. I was going to point out the Dixie flags. I'm sure Billy Bob and Cooter would approve. I have a few more 55-56 8X10's. Over time, with Craig's kind assistance, I'll share them. John

[Mr.Pushbutton]

Oh yea, I forgot--the Confederate flags are mounted to the torsion bars,so that they would "wave back and fourth" as the bars twist back and fourth. John

[DGRINKE]

Great thanks to you and Mr. Pushbutton for the historic auto-show photos!!! I noticed the differences between this chassis and the one that I have. I see this is a 55, solid steering shaft, shift arm on column, pig rear gear. The column support is alike, as are the plating and painting of parts for ID. and the lack of the body mounts at the T/L crossmember. I see that there was a lot of parts taken off over the 50 years that this thing was in hiding. I thought that by now someone from an org. might contact me about it, but so far no word. I guess that I will go back to plan A and clean it up and put it under my 55-400. Thanks again for the photo's.

Dan

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Look closely in the 2nd pic at the Carib front headlite brows. They sure protrude a great deal for 55 and not quite proportioned rite for 56. I'm no Carib expert but was reversible upholstery actualy available in 55???

BH: not sure what u mean by column support. If u r talking about that rather large black upward arching thing i believe that is the power steering hoses.

Did they actualy hold that show on a DIRT floor?????? Sure looks like it.

Great pics Mr PB. thanks.

[Mr.Pushbutton]

Sorry guys, it wasn't the camera lens that caused the LH optical distortion in that photo, but rather my Hewlett-Studebaker scan-copy-fax-print piece of crap machine. She's an old sheet feed model, I bought it about a year before all those nice flatbed 4-in-1's came out. I've been dropping some heavy hints around here, so we'll see if Santa comes through. (hope he's not checking my "honey-do list!). I got the original back out, and it's a standard '55

Carribean, regular '55 senior front fenders. The chassis is mounted on some kind of platform riser, I would guess about 12" tall, and it has the funky "dirt floor" appearance that V8 mentioned, which on the original looks to be a simulated grass "mound" effect. The flooring in the room seems to be rubber matting (it's rolling up over the stanchon in front of the drivers door of the carribean) at the very rear of the photo, there is what appears to be a concrete floor, under the partition drape. This was obviously before the days of new carpeting wall to wall at the auto shows. But then again, it was in Dallas, and the auto show could have been in a rodeo arena.

[DGRINKE]

B.H.

Thanks for the input. I realize this is an informal forum. I have e-mailed Mr. Blond and called the Dayton museum and left a message for the curator. I am with limited funds and not as fast as I once was. This is why I mentioned getting started with the project.

Thank You,

Dan

[Guest AlK]

Guys:

Let me interject 2 cents here if I may.

I belong to a Packard region here in the south(no names). There is a man here who has a T-L show frame for sale.

He wants $2k for it. He is of the same opinion, that one of the major PAC clubs or the musuems would want it for it's historical value. Point of fact, museums are notorious for crying poverty. Most of them do not even own the cars in their facility. they are usually borrowed, loaned out, or stored or free and therefore do not have the funds to make major purchases. I proposed that our club contribute funds from the treasury to buy and restore this T-L frame to augment the $500 I would kick in and the response that I got was less than heartwarming. Nobody is interested in anything like this unless they can steal it. The only way it will get done is when someone with the desire and deep pockets comes forward and does it. I have one but not the other so there it sits. P.A.C. cannot at the moment divert funds to a project like this because of its on going efforts to save, pay for, and restore the Packard proving grounds. And that unfortunatly has to come before something like this.

[joe kastellic]

Brain, you say you have a promo factory film on the 56 cars, does this show the cars on the line being assembled? Would you go into detail on this bit of video history? are there any video on the Packard factory 1955-56 era? BTW I agree the www.survalcracksas.com is just GREAT take care Joe

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

All of this somewhat begs the question: How many such units were made, were there 55's and 56's, were they numbered, which units went where and how did they initialy fall into public hands form the company????? Any answers to that last question mite give rise to answers to alot of other questions surronding the last days.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

DGRINKE: is there an engine number and a vin number on your unit??? what about the trans????? Possibly an "O" (alpha o) in the numbers or preceeding them????

[DGRINKE]

PackardV8,

Good questions!!! Where would a Vin.# be on a chassis/engine?(56). The trans is all aluminum, is there a # on it somewhere? I will look for #'s the next trip to my nephews where I have it stored for now. All help to ID. this thing is appreciated!! Thanks,

Dan Rinke

[Guest Rojo22]

I have seen and wanted to buy the chasis that AlK talks about. It is sitting out in the elements and is getting close to being a "basket" case. It is sad that it is going to go the way it is. I think the proving grounds is important, but what do you do with something that is as rare as this?

[Guest Randy Berger]

The transmission number in 1956 is stamped on the rear flange of the casting just to the left (as you look down at the tranny) of the tail shaft. It should start with an alphabetic letter.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

As far as i know Al trans was 56 ONLY. 55 had Cast iron trans. The "vin" on the engine is located directly to the left (drivers side direction) of the engine oil filler tube on a flat cast boss on the block. LATE 56 engines had an ENGINE NUMBER (not related to the "vin") stamped just above the "vin" as described above. If it is a 55 or eraly 56 engine then the engine NUMBER is stamped on a flat boss at the VERY EXTREME upper RIGHT rear corner of the engine BLOCK. There should also be a date CLEARLY VISIBLE and cast into the top of the bellhousig that is integraly cast to the block. Dates cast into the heads visible when valve cover is removed.

The trans number on 56 Al case is stamped on a flat smooth surface just above the trans oil pan REAR flange. It may or may not beprefixed or suffixed with a five pointed star symbol. Look on the very TOP of the trans for a rather crude number that looks like it was drawn on with a stick welder by a 10 year old.

If we could find out where the FRAME serial number is located that would be a GREAT DISCOVERY TOO.

[Mr.Pushbutton]

Brian, I have "the safe road ahead" on VHS. I saw it about 20 years ago at a Stude meet in South bend, inside the old plant. The VHS copy was poor--a lousy transfer. I bought it at Hershey from a guy who specialized in old automotive film-to-video transfers. You are right, the acting is very reminicent of the "Superman" TV show, and it's a hokey story, but hey--it's from Packard, and shows brand new 56 models doing their thing. I would gladly have forked over another $10 to get a clean transfer video. The man the couple in the film visited was (in the story line) a retired engineer who was building a model of the Packard T-L chassis for Packard. Bill Allison, the inventor of T-L once spoke at a Motor City Packards meeting, and he brought along a dozen beautifully crafted brass models of contemporary (in the mid 80's) unit body "chassis"/suspensions that were updates of the Packard T-L system. Bill made the models himself. They all used the concept of interlinking front and rear suspension. Some used torsion bars, some used transverse leaf springs--many different approaches. Bill took these to all of the big three engineering people. They all said the same thing--too expensive to build, we're making money with what we've got, people are still buying what we make. Bill was an engineer's engineer. I'm glad our favorite company put his idea to work. John

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(snip) Bill Allison, the inventor of T-L once spoke at a Motor City Packards meeting, and he brought along a dozen beautifully crafted brass models of contemporary (in the mid 80's) unit body "chassis"/suspensions that were updates of the Packard T-L system. Bill made the models himself. They all used the concept of interlinking front and rear suspension. Some used torsion bars, some used transverse leaf springs--many different approaches. Bill took these to all of the big three engineering people. They all said the same thing--too expensive to build, we're making money with what we've got, people are still buying what we make. Bill was an engineer's engineer. I'm glad our favorite company put his idea to work. John </div></div>

There was a thread a while back about update changes to the T-L. Also, according to at least one article I read, the 1957 T-L was also somewhat different than 1955-56.

In any case, I find it kind of amazing that the automotive suspensions of today are basically unchanged over the last 50 years. It seems the manufacturers would rather spend millions on computer time and chassis dynos fine tuning the spring/shock/mount combos than change to a design that was intrinsically superior.

[DGRINKE]

B.H.

Thanks for the info! I have printed everyone's hints on #'s & locations and will look closely when I pull the engine & trans. I'm going to sandblast the frame, so maybe I will spot a # in the process, if one exists.

Dan

[Jack Harlin]

Craig

Have you or others seen, that Bose is working on a new suspension system? No springs or shocks. In place will be four computer controlled lineare electronic motors, one at each wheel. Testing it, proved to be an exceedingly smooth ride over all road conditions, and hardly no body roll on fast driving on sharp turns. It seems odd that a audio company is doing this, while the Auto mfg. are satisfied to do nothing. Guess we will have to waite & see if any step forward.

[Mr.Pushbutton]

Bose? the audio manufacturer? My high end audio snob friends have a saying:

"No highs, no lows, must be BOSE" <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Mr.Pushbutton]

Brian, the 16MM print I saw in south bend 20 years ago was PERFECT. The print quality was tops, and the color was true and vibrant. Many color films from the 50's-70's suffer from degradation of the color--everything tends to get pink, due to the other two primary color dyes fading. Theatrical 35MM prints with "color by Deluxe" are known for this fault. I have experience with this in my cinema-theatrical endeavors. Not so with the Packard film. It was near perfection. The fault with the vhs tape the guy from NJ sold (same guy I got my copy from) is that his transfer was done on the cheap. film to video transfer is a snap, with the right quality equipment. Hence my comment about wishing I could have paid another $10 for a quality copy. John <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

[joe kastellic]

You said that you read an article about the 1957 TL , could you go into detail ,what changes were going to be made, is this article still available for reading? I wonder if the Packard or the Stude musem has any tech info on the 57 TL ? Was there ever a prototype of the 57 TL assembled? just think if Packard could have refined the TL I wonder what a 1966 or 1976 Packard would ride and handle LIKE? Joe

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You said that you read an article about the 1957 TL , could you go into detail ,what changes were going to be made, is this article still available for reading? (snip) </div></div>

The only info I have hardcopy for is "CARS That Never Were" by the editors of Consumer Guide, "Last Days in the Bunker -- Packard's Plans for '57".

A couple pages into this article is the statement: "From an engineering standpoint, the '57 Packard would have been an advanced version of the 1955-56 Model, with self-adjusting torsion-bar suspension..." I took this to mean that the T-L was also "an advanced version", but critically examining the statement, it may only have referred to other components, such as the engine (300bhp 440CID).

I did talk to a guy in PA a few years ago on the phone who did a "home made" copy of the 1957 Black Bess; he called it "Black Bess II" and it was based on a 1955 Patrician chassis. He displayed it at the 1999 Centennial in Warren, OH and it was pretty ugly. He told me that he had "blueprints" for the 1957 model, including the T-L, but I didn't pursue it any further at that time.

That's all the info I have.

[Guest JT]

Brian, I got "Building a masterpiece", "The way ahead" and some other shorts on one tape from I guess the same vendor as you and the quality was so bad I only watched it once, barely. I might as well trash it <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Is there a better source out there for videos?

[Guest Randy Berger]

Brian, along those same lines is the video from 1999. I think

they fell down on an outstanding show because the one video tape

I saw caused me to NOT order it. Poor quality and voice over by

someone who didn't know Packards. "Here comes another old one"

trying to describe a 1934 sedan. Didn't know years or models.

Should have hired a pro to film it and several Packard people

to do the voice-overs later.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I was Very Disappointed that none of the TV producers saw fit to do a show on the Centennial Meet. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I don't think it was even mentioned on any of the car shows.

[Guest Randy Berger]

I thought it was featured on a car show hosted by Edward Herman. He was driven around the track circling the opus by Terry Martin. Does anyone else remember this?

YFAM, Randy Berger

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I was Very Disappointed that none of the TV producers saw fit to do a show on the Centennial Meet. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I don't think it was even mentioned on any of the car shows. </div></div>

You missed History Channel's "Ultimate Autos" series on Packard. It was a history of Packard produced right after the 1999 Centennial and featured some sequences from both PAC's Warren, OH meet and PI's Orange, CA meet that year. Edward Herrman was the host and narrator and indeed was given a drive "#1". Also interviewed were Beverely Rae Kimes, and some Packard Club notables. I attended the PI meet which had about 100 Packards on display. My 55 Pat just missed being in the background on one of the pan shots. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, one should be able to order a commercial copy of this show directly from THC.

I bought one of those amateur/commercial videos (Ocean Video Movies in NJ) of the PAC meet. While it was a copy of a home video (not great quality), it was 2 hours long and showed almost every Packard there including the 1954 Panthers and the Predictor.