Manual T-L Switch

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I checked at MaxMerritt about the Manual T-L Switch and they have the switch for $45. and the Kit with switch, wires and instructions for $95. Kanter as never heard of it. It doesn't even come with a knob. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Guess I'd need to find a knob and bezel that matched the others.

$45. seems a bit much to me (if it happen to brake then it'd be $90.) My common switches, that I already have, are looking better. But, I think I'll check around a little more before making a decision about which switch I will use. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Rick L wrote:

"Kanter as never heard of it."

Now u're getting a little taste of what some of us have been putting up with.

AND:

"My common switches, that I already have, are looking better. But, I think I'll check around a little more before...".

Make sure u do that "CORRECTLY" now!!! No Billy Bob and Cooter switches either. MAKE SURE u go directly to one of the clubs or vendors to get the CORRECT NOS parts the job... . And if they never heard of it then it never existed. Just ask any trailor Queen jockey. They WILL tell u.

.

[RO]

That switch goes under the dash left of the steering wheel column; it's hardly visible. I have manual switches on my cars but I don't think that toggle switch does anything other than turn the system on and off; you could just pick up a switch at Walmart that could do that. As a toggle under the dash, there's no matching to other knobs on the dash, at least on my cars.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

RO

We were talking about a Manual Up-Down switch (on another thread but desided to start another thread on the subject), not the On-Off switch under dash. The Manual switch disables the automatic system and allows you to move the suspenion up and down manually.

(The other thread was 'Torsion Level Motor' Page-2, if you want to see what was said)

PackardV8

NO BillyBob & Cooter HERE, I'm Gonna make it PUURRDY. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If I didn't know Better, I would think you were a little bitter, about our previous comments. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Rick L wrote:

"Guess I'd need to find a knob and bezel that matched the others."

According to the SC i have on the Manual sw there would be no bezel because it mounts verticle at the rolled lip under the dash near the TL on/off sw.. And it shows what appears to be a 56 Jr knob.

However, mine is mounted in the dash between the headlite and wiper sw. using an antenna bezel and matching knob. Much more convenient at that location.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Thanks, PackardV8

That's Good to know. No one mentioned that before. That makes it a lot simpler, as long as I don't bump my knee into it. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

That's the reason I've been waiting to install a Manual Switch, because I knew I hadn't researched all the Information yet. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

What's the best way to get Service Information like that?

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Email me a mailing address and i'll snail mail u a photocopy of what i have. NOTE: it will be a copy of a copy since thats all that i have.

Packard56V8@wmconnect.com

[Guest AlK]

Rick L.

I have both of mine under the dash. The on/off switch for the automatic leveler and the up/down switch which is nothing more than a black plastic switch in a black plastic bezel from autozone. I even have to feel my down there to make sure I get the right one. They both work fine.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

As per our previous discussions, and if I understand this correctly, you Must have a Special switch to wire this correctly. (one that will disable the automatic system when activating the system manually but allow the automatic system to operate when the manual switch is off). I am an Electronics Engineer and I don't know of ANY single common switch that can do that. So, the need for the special switch-kit that MaxMerritt sells.

The reason you need to disable the automatic system is: you wouldn't want it to run the T-L motor in one direction at same time you were manually trying to run it in the other direction. (Major Problem There)

I have figured out a way to accomplish the same thing by changing the on-off switch to a SPDT-centerOff and using a SPDT-centerOff-Momentary for the manual switch and a relay between the 2 switches. The relay is needed because the on-off switch switches +12.volts, from the brake switch, and the manual switch switches Ground, thru the limit switches to the motor activation solenoids.

Evidently there have been many other ways that a manual switch has been added but I'm afraid that many of them are Meltdowns and Broken Gearboxes Waiting to happen. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Brian

I had looked for Service Councelors and Bulletins at the club websites but maybe I Overlooked them. I'll try again.

I had bid on some S-Cs on eBay but got outbid because I wasn't sure what was included and if they were worth the price.

[55PackardGuy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe they were reprinted by Packards International in an issue of their club magazine; I seem to recall it was the comemmorative to Dick Teague</div></div>

Right you are, Brian. It's that great Summer '91 issue. It also has a wiring diagram for the TL operation. It does NOT include info or wiring specs for a manual switch, though.

I can scan and post the diagram if anyone wants to see it. However, I'd encourage all those interested to take a few minutes and order the back issue. They were still available last February for just a couple of bucks from Packards International. ANYONE with interest in '55-'56 Packards will find a lot of fun and informative reading--and some great pictures.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

PackardV8

Thank you very much for the Manual Control Info that you mailed.

*Very informative* <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[55PackardGuy]

Brian,

I believe that paper on the V8 is in the same issue of Packards International. I'm not sure what an SAE paper should look like, but this is definitely "period" material and not a re-write.

I forgot the T/L manual switch was a post-production item in '55. Our '55 Clipper had it. As I recall, the procedure was to turn OFF the main switch (knob on the left of steering wheel under the dash) before using the manual switch. Then, the toggle switch, located under the dash to the right of the steering wheel, was pushed or pulled to raise or lower the back end. The switch automatically returned to center when released, breaking the connection to the leveling motor--no need to move the switch back to center.

This seems like a logical layout to me. I don't know if it was a factory kit, but it sure worked well. In fact, I think the automatic system was normally left "off." It kept us kids from taking "elevator rides" on the back bumper until the battery went dead. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> (At least 'til we started monkeying with the manual switch.) <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_Packards1]

There is the wiring harness for the manual control switch kit on eBay right now. Mike Dotson has it on auction for the next week. Joel

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Joel

I think that is only the Stock wiring harness for the T-L automatic system.

URL:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...ssPageName=WDVW

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

we need to find a source for the bullet and sleeve connectors (Douglar connector?) like Packard used. A source where we can buy in bulk or say 100 or more of each at bulk price. Also the Series 56 connectors that GM used from 55 thru 75 or longer.

The TL manual sw wiring harness can be made using the diagram in the SC. Thats what i did using salvaged wire with connectors from other cars.

One thing i have not determined yet is if the Packard bullet and sleeve connectors are soldered to the wire or not.

[55PackardGuy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">three-position, push-pull switch, not a toggle</div></div>

I'm trying to visualize this setup for future info. Is the "push-pull" switch a sliding one with a "back" "front" and "middle" position? Or am I just not getting what a push-pull switch is? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Attached is schematic of Manual T-L Switch circuit that I designed and plan to try. I already have all the parts so it's just a matter of getting up the Nerve to do it. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> (I have already changed out the On/Off switch to the double-throw switch)

Again, I had to reduce quality greatly to get the 100.k file size limit. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Oops, I just noticed that I forgot to say on schematic that the Manual Up & Down wires go thru limit switches (on gearbox) before going to Solenoid-relay-coils.

[WCraigH]

Rick L: Good design. But, I don't think the 30A relay is absolutely necessary since you can get 30A DPDT. In either case, it satisfies the "idiot proof" criteria of forgetting to turn off the auto system whilst activating the manual system.

Where are you going to mount the relay? 1956 would be easier since the wiring from the relay to the solenoids would be very short. For 1955, I wouldn't mount a relay under the car by the solenoids.

One other thing: "off" is not truly [color:"red"] OFF with your design since the T-L could still "accidently" be activated during service by inadvertently hitting the manual switch. Maybe you need a "master" off?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Craig

The relay is needed because S1 switches +12.volts to Auto system and Ground is switched in by the relay to the up/down switch. I said 30.Amp current rating because that is a common inexpensive size to get. (about $3. average in Bosch design)

The relay will be mounted under dash next to both switches. See the change I just made to previous post, I forgot to mention that the Up/down wires need to go to limit switch wires (under car) before going to Solenoid relays.

Since S1 is a 3 position switch (auto, Off, manual) S1 Is the master switch. When it is in center position both circuits are Off.

[WCraigH]

Rick L: got it, thanks for the clarification. As I posted before, good design. I'll consider changing over to this on my Panther project.

[joe kastellic]

Rick, let us know how you like the setup when you install it, and if there are any other changes you might make and would please make another schematic, with these changes in it, thanka again Joe.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

The only thing I haven't determined yet is the best place to tap into the limit switches, (at the controller box or into the harness). I'll have to crawl under the car and ponder for a while, on that one. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Right now I think I can remove cover on controller and connect there, but not sure yet.

[55PackardGuy]

Thanks, Brian. I missed that attachemnt. It looks like a sort of "plunger" style like a headlight switch, no? Except with a center "off" position. Definitely different from what we had. I'm pretty sure my dad installed it, and may have used his own parts. He's not around to check with, though. As I said, the spring-loaded toggle which centered itself to an "off" position worked very well, and made it impossible to forget the switch in either up or down position.

The limit switches evidently kicked in if you kept holding the manual switch until the system reached its full up or down position. Fairly "idiot-proof" except it may have still been possible to try to operate the manual switch without turning the auto knob off. But if so, I think the time delay would be sufficient to keep the automatic system from trying to work against the manual adjustment. It would just kick in afterwards and undo your adjustement. Doh!

An interlock which would make the manual switch dead until the auto was turned off, such as apparently is the intent of Rick's Auto-Off-Manual switch is ideal. And being able to turn the whole system off with an inconspicuous switch has its advantages, in case someone discovers how much fun it is to hop on and off your bumper. A whole different meaning to the phrase "riding your bumper."

Packard mechanics were said to have quickly discovered the advantage of having a couple of guys sit on the bumper to run up the height, then quickly shutting off the system before changing tires. Less jacking to do!

[Guest imported_Speedster]

PackardV8

I have been trying to find a source for the Bullet&Sleeve type terminals, but have Not been able to find any the same size that Packard used. I found larger ones at 'Newark Electronics' but none that size. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

They could be used but are not exactly as Original. They don't come with any kind of insulation cover either, would have to use tubing for cover.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I am Happy to report that the Manual T-L Suspension Switching Circuit that I designed and built has been working for about 2 months, with No problems. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

See Attachment:

[Guest Randy Berger]

Rick, What is the purpose of the relay? Is there another wire(s)

that you just didn't show? It looks like S1 should just power S2,

which seems OK to me. What am I missing?

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest imported_Speedster]

No, it is All there and it is All needed.

The relay is needed because S-1 (master switch) switches +12.volts to Auto system or to relay (coming from brake switch) and the relay switches in Negative (ground) to S-2. You can't connect Positive voltage to S-2 because Negative voltage is needed to activate the up/down solenoid relays (thru limit switches).

S-1 needs to have a center off position since it is also the master off switch for both the auto and manual circuits (replacing the original master switch).

I said 30.Amp current rating for relay because that is a common inexpensive size. The current thru relay contacts and S-2 is very low, (solenoid relay coils only).

The 2 wires from S-2 go into the controller box and are soldered above pins on ends of the pink and yellow wires. Connecting them there puts the gearbox limit switches in the circuit before going to the solenoid relays. They could be spliced into those wires external to box but connecting them inside box makes a neater installation. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Guest Randy Berger]

Rick, thanks for the detailed explanation. I knew I had to be

overlooking something. Save the original on-off switch, they

are hard to find(grin). The original manual control switch

accomplishes the same thing in one switch which makes it

convenient. It has become difficult to find, though.

The wiring harness for that switch makes the connections

inside the box also - neat and out of the elements.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, it was the cost and availability of the original type switch and harness that drove me to design my own. I could build my circuit, with parts I already had, for maybe $15. for all parts, if I had to buy them.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Brian,

I main advantage of my circuit is that Auto system circuit can Not be left On when you are activating the Manual circuit. If the Auto system is trying to run the Motor in one direction and the Manual circuit is running it in the other direction, That's Not Good. I think it would cook something <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> The fuse would probably go first.