Torsion Level Motor

[Jack Harlin]

AlK

I understand that. You have bought them all from miles around. no wonder they dont know, they only see the ones you drive. Thats a nice position to be in. Jack

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

ok. i dug out the SC for the "Torsion Level Manual Control 56th series". TRUE, the sw in the schematic has 4our terminals where as my Billy-Bob and Cooter antenna sw. has only 3hree terminals.

SO, if i understand this "correctly" then the operation of the manual control sw is as follows:

Push(or pull) the manual control sw when needed. This will raise/lower the rear end of the car to the max until the limiter sw stops it. After the rear end attitude adjustment is no longer needed then return the manual control sw to the centre position and the automatic leveling circuitry kicks in to normalize the rear end height. So, the Manual Override when activated either up or down raises/lowers the rear end of the car to the MAX.

What if the compensator on/off sw (little black toggle sw) is turned off?????? Will the Manual control sw still work???? The SC explanation of its operation is bit terse or concise so i'm guessing it still works even with the on/off sw in the off position.

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(snip) So, the Manual Override when activated either up or down raises/lowers the rear end of the car to the MAX. (snip) </div></div>

Uhh, I don't think so....<img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> The example situtation I read somewhere on the "functional requirement" for the Manual Override switch was to temporarily raise the rear end to avoid scraping the rear bumper when entering an upward steep driveway from a flat road. Practically, this situation requires that the auto-level on/off switch be in the OFF position until the challenging terrain is navigated, however long that may take.

Keith, I have a similar Billy-Bob & Cooter implementation on my 55 Pat, which bypasses the limit override when in manual mode. I used a Radio Shack-type double pole, center (spring loaded) off "bat wing" switch mounted under the dash next to the factory on/off switch. I'm just careful when using it. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Craig, According to those that have the factory override option kit the Sw is NOT spring loaded.

From a recent previous post:

"The manual control switch is a special three-position switch, part #6492143 and is in Group 4.22606. AS designed it will stay in whatever position you place it, UP, Automatic, and DOWN. I didn't like that arrangement as I had read

that some people..."

The SC i have on the Manual control does not instruct to turn the on/off sw to the off position while using the manual option sw. Apparently, based on my understanding of the SC and the recent posts the operation of the sw is to simply hit the manual sw, negotiate the terrain, and then return the manual sw to the centre position. IF this is the case AND the sw is NOT SPRING LOADED then the optional manual override feature MUST be depending on the limiter sw to stop the request for adjustment.

On a different note, 2 or 3 years ago u posted pics of a TL gear box mainshaft that had been twisted (i think u found 2wo that way?). Were u ever able to determine WHY the system allowed for the overrun of the TL gear box to cause the twisting of the mainshaft(s)??????

[Guest Randy Berger]

The manual control switch <span style="font-weight: bold">AS MADE</span> will stay in whatever position it is placed.

If it is placed back into center (AUTO) before the limit switch is engaged then the T/L motor stops wherever it is.

If the T/L ON/OFF switch is turned off during/before this operation, then the car will remain at that level (UP/DOWN) until the manual switch is again energized <span style="font-weight: bold">OR</span> the T/L switch is turned back on.

The only difference in my modification is to have the manual switch return to the center (AUTO) position when the switch is released.

The center (AUTO) position of the manual switch is wired in series with the T/L ON/OFF switch so that if EITHER switch is disengaged the self-leveling feature is disabled.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Mr.Pushbutton]

Didn't the factory call this the "steep driveway kit"? John

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Thanks guys, your discriptions have cleared up the questions I had about the switches and the various optional ways of doing it.

I had planned on adding a manual switch UNTIL I started hearing all the options, but NOW I think I can find the proper switch and connect it properly. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

BH wrote:

"Also, if the manual control switch (as supplied by the factory) is simply left in either manual position, then yes, the compensator motor would only shut-off when (if?) the limit switch breaks the circuit, but I don't think this is what the factory engineers really intended. Rather the kit was provided for use at the driver's discretion (NOT "unattended" operation) to raise or lower the car, yet only enough to clear an obstacle, and then purposely move the switch back to the center position to halt the action."

I tend to disagree. Drivers discretion would vary too widely (and in the case my former girl friends Bobby-Sue and Cooty-Jill no clue at all). My uptake on the Eng'rs idea for use would be to just slap the manula control sw in the appropriate direction and let the system handle the rest until normal operation is required again and then just return the manual sw to centre. Simple, effective, no Judgement call to make. Not everyone who bought a Packard was necessarily capable of discretion and the Eng'rs would have to account for that.

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(snip) Rather than use an antenna switch, it seems that whoever did the work on Craig's car specifically chose a toggle switch with a built-in center return, but it looks like all three "impementations" serve the same basic purpose - manually energizing the up or down solenoids. (snip)</div></div>

This part of the thread is turning into an implementation sophistication discussion (which is not a bad thing).

For the record, the person who "did the work on Craig's car" was me (Craig). One thing about the technology of the period was what we now call the "man in the loop".

Sophisticated "interlocks" to make a system idiot proof were not that common at that time. An example would be the possibility of the driver inadvertently placing the Ultramatic transmission in reverse instead of low; that would be a "fun ride" under certain circumstances. Likewise, requiring the driver to follow certain a procedure (1.turn off the "auto" switch; 2. manually activate the up/down switch...) was acceptable for the period, given information availability (owner's manual, etc). On the other hand, wiring the system so as to avoid calamities is a good thing.

[Guest Randy Berger]

Just so we all have an idea of what we are talking about, I attached a picture of the switch. Note that when the switch is either pushed or pulled to an end detent, it has effectively grounded the lead to that terminal and broken the continuity between the center terminals. Simple, eh? (The Eh? was for Dave Kenney) <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

BH wrote:

"...when the control box gets "stuck" and a limit switch fails (a true testament to the..."

I'm wondering how often limit sw failure occurs (w/respect to not limiting). Again Craig had posted pics sometime back of 2wo different TL gear boxes with twisted shafts.

NOW, this has prompted me to put on my Billy-Bob and Cooter cap again to maybe wire up a couple idiot lites to the limiter sw's so that i can closely monitor the movement when activatiing the dash sw i rigged up. IF the limiter sw's in my car are good. I think one of them is bad.

I often run the rear end quite hi or low depending on how i need to jack it up for service. IF the limiter sw's in my car are good. I think one of them is

[Guest AlK]

Hey Guys

Thanks for all of the advice. Word has come from the mechanic that not only does the electric motor not turn when juice is apply directly, but that the gear box is cracked like an eggshell. So it appears that the heavy hitters are going to have to be brought to bear to fix this.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

The gearbox may be jamed, not allowing the motor to turn. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[Guest Rojo22]

I want to thank everyone who has posted here. Alk has been helping me nurse this Packard back to health, and the car is my candidate for a driver while I get a few other cars fixed up. I am always amazed at the breadth and depth of knowledge shared here, and for those of us new guys, appreciate the spirit it is dispensed in. Thank you again for helping me out. We will be taking the car up to Birmingham and have found a suitable replacement motor and gearbox. The four by four (wooden block) suspension should be deinstalled shortly, although I kinda liked the idea of a four by four Packard.....Just kidding.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Since the switch you have shown is probably Not easy to find at a good price, I have about desided to change the under-dash SPST switch to a SPDT-CenterOff type (going to automatic system to one side and the other side going to Manual switch). And then use a SPDT-CenterOff-Momemtary switch (like used for Powerwindows), for the manual up and down (mounted in dash).

That way I can use more common, easy to find, type switches, to accomplish the same thing. And I already have those switches. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The only problem I can see with that setup is that I'll have to cut a larger hole in dash for the Manual up-down switch, <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> but the ones I have are nice chrome units so it should look okay.

[Jack Harlin]

RickL

You could be sneeky & mount the window switch in the door. Jack

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, It would Look Less out of Place in the door, but If someone else drove the car and wanted to lower the window, Man, would they get a Surprise! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'll have to Think about That.

[Guest Randy Berger]

Rick, Max Merritt had the switches and Kanter probably does too.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Okay, I'll check with them before making any Drastic Changes. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

That switch would be a much easyer and neater installation, Thanks

[Guest Randy Berger]

Brian, No I don't have any pics of the minor mods I made to the switch,

but they are simple - much like the guy who changed the switch. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

YFAM, Randy Berger