researching # cars

[Guest]

I had a company research my 58 buick century model 66r to see how many were left out of 8,800 or so that were made. They sent me a letter back stating that there only 24 servivors left and other than mine one other one in the state of michigan. I believe this company to be reputable, but i find it hard to beleive ther are only 24 left.<BR>does anyone know of other companies that research how many cars of a certian make, model and year are left survivng? I would like another opion and if it is true i would need to rethink my insurance policy<BR>thanks:<BR>camman.8<BR>58 buick century 66r<BR>60 stude wagon

[Guest]

First rarity does not equal value - check the market value of a 57 Chevy Bel Air convt (a relatively common car) and a 57 Studebaker wagon(how many have you seen?).<P><BR>Car club roster lists are a better source of info, but of course do not count cars not in the club.

[NTX5467]

I highly suspect they can only track current registrations of vehicles. Some owners might have lapsed in their liscensing their vehicles for one reason or another. It might be better to consider these lists as of "street legal" vehicles instead of the total population of particular vehicles. Have you looked in the recent BCA Roster and previous issues to check on how many are in the club and where?<P>Enjoy!<BR>NTX5467

[Guest AWBE]

Who did you get to do this research? How do I contact them?

[Guest]

after much searching i found the company that did the report for me. i stand corrected. there are, by their count 27... 58 buick model 66R LEFT nationally and 3 in the state of michigan. I took the advice from you folks and counted 14 nationally and 1 in the state of michigan. so it would be a safe bet that some of the 27 are not bca members.<BR>according to their papers, they use the following to acheive their figures.<BR>1. U.S. registrations by make and model<BR>2. U.S. production figures by make/model by manufacturer.<BR>3. the AIC comprehensive computer model of make/model extrapolition.<BR>4. United States salvage figures by state.<BR>5. where appropriate, AIC uses factors our experience indicates affect the figures.<BR>note: AIC stand for Automotive Information Clearinghouse.<BR>I do not have a clue as to what some of this means, but i agree there must be more somewhere in the barns and back 40's of the world. (hope to find them cause i can always use parts}.<BR>but anyway the company name is Automotive Information Clearinghouse<BR>box. 1746 La Mesa, Ca. 91944<BR>(619) 447-7200<BR>I beleive i paid $25 bucks for their research, but it was a few years ago.<BR>camman.8<BR>58 buick model 66r<BR>60 stude wagon<BR>P.S. they also go on to say that rareity+populairity=higher appraisal value for insurance pourposes. my stude wagon is more rare than my buick, but it was not a popular car,nor still is, so the appraisal price is much lower. <P><BR>

[Guest]

the people that REALLY KNOW whats left r the big Vendors and parts suppliers that specialize in your particular line and vintage of car. Especialy if they have been in business for several decades. After all, its their bread and butter TO KNOW!. But, good luck ever getting a number out of them.

[Guest 70 Electra]

No offense, but in my opinion, this type of research is completely meaningless and is simply a revenue generator for outfits that have access to registration records. I've seen these kind of "documents" proudly displayed at car shows, and the owners think they have some kind of "proof" of how rare their car is. Not so--they are just fooling themselves!<P>When it comes to collector cars, going by the registration data is meaningless. As pointed out previously, MANY collectors don't even register their car. This is done for a variety of reasons. For example, I know two different fellows that have each collected over 50 of a particular car model. Neither one keeps ANY of their cars registered. Other cars that are typically not registered are those offered for sale at a collector car dealerships or those in museums.<P>Conversely, in a state like Michigan that has a non-expiring LIFETIME registration on Y-O-M plates, the registration records will show the existence of cars even after they leave the state! I, personally, have sold two cars that had non-expiring Y-O-M registrations. Yet, according to state registration records, they are still "on the road" in Michigan.<P>The idea of "estimating" the number on the road is also bogus! Anyone that says they can estimate the number of a car model that has survived based on registration attrition, or scrappage records, is blowing smoke.<P>Even though you'll NEVER know how many 58 Century's like yours exist, you can be certain it is a VERY low number. Sounds like a neat car and I hope to see it at a show/event!<p>[ 04-11-2002: Message edited by: 70 Electra ]

[Guest]

AMEN Greg!. This hobby is already full of too many Snake Oil salesmen as it is. I still contend that the 'dealers' have a good idea tho. Yhey'll never tell.

[NTX5467]

I concur with 70Electra, the numbers generated from these "services" are certainly not absolute numbers, but can give you a general guide only. Their dialogue starts out credibly enough with mention of the state DMV databases, but when they mention their computer extrapolation for scrappage and such, that's when the credibility tends to go out of the window for me.<P>The word "rare" is totally subjective too. For example, in the early 1980s, I saw 12 different Unibody Ford pickups in my various runnings around in the DFW area, along with other low production '70s era muscle cars. Those pickups were still running, driving vehicles and would show up in the DMV database for sure. But you would not see the same concentration of these vehicles in another locality. Rare? Yes, but not everywhere. <P>Just like any Buick being a rare car in the non-metro areas of West Texas, but not in Dallas or other large metro areas.<P>I understand that there are a lot of Buick owners that are not in the BCA, but I'd look at the number of vehicles like yours that are listed in the members' vehicle section of the current and recent BCA rosters to get a better idea of how many might still exist. How many are "in the club" can be much more important than how many are still in existence "whereever".<P>In any event, you might never get a firm number, just an approximation. Rarity and value are in the eye of the beholder. Get the vehicle appraised by a credible appraiser (who usually aims "high"), check the prices in "Old Cars Price Guide", get insurance of your choice, and don't worry about the "numbers".<P>Just some thoughts . . .<P>NTX5467

[Guest]

I am whole harted in agreement with you as for the numbers left. It is mor for fun than anything, but i did call my insurance co. (hagerty) and they strongly urged me to send it to them, so i did. with the idia in mind that parts guys know how rare a care is that would explain why certain parts cost alot for mine and why i can never find that darned part i really needed. furtunatly ther are 3 peaple out there that have a bunch of 58 buicks that i buy from and they know the value of the parts for sure, and for some spare parts i will gladly pay it. Anyway for a small price to pay this info from them plus what,s in the rooster giveS someone a general idia what they have.<BR>one thing for sure i will never give up this site, cause all you folks out there are the best way to network. i have never seen so many knowlegable peaple about differant things than here.<BR>thanks and keep up the good work, peaple like me and those new to the hobbie NEED YOU!<BR>And yes, you will see the black beauty at more shows this year now that i have a little more time. The bride and i plan on attending kokomo this year. Never did care if i win anything... i just like meeting and talking with peaple like you folks. my buick ain't no #1 car but she is mostly original and could well be a good #2 car.<BR>again thanks to all.<BR>camman.8<BR>58 buick 66r<BR>60 stude wagon