Guest Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Jeremy:<P>I am not going to condem the product or Buick management, what I am going to tell you is that Buick does not offer at this time anything which attracts my interest or attention. Advertisements can make me aware, but the product is what sells me. I am probably statistically an ideal Buick buyer, Age in middle 50's, satisfied previous Buick owner, empty nest family with dual income.<P>The first new vehicle I ever purchased was a 1969 Buick GS Stage 1 hardtop, why, because it was unique and I wanted it. Last Buick I purchased was a 1897 Buick Grand National, why, because it was unique and I wanted it. You build what people want and they will pay for it. The 87 GN is the only car I have ever paid full Manufactures Suggested Retail price for. Why, because Buick had built something I wanted.<P>In the past year my wife and I have both bought new vehicles. We didn't even look at Buick, why, because they didn't have anything unique. What did apeal to us was REAR WHEEL DRIVE, a SUSPENSION that doesn't beat you to death but lets you know the road is there and that you are in control of it and a STYLING that says I am me, I am not like every other car running down the highway nor is my owner. What fit that critera for us was a Pontiac Firebird Coupe & TA WS6 6 speed Coupe. <P>As far as Tiger Woods. WHO CARES!<P>Thanks for listening.<P>Keith Cronkhite - GSCA #42 - Michigan<BR>69stage1@absolute-net.com<P>PS: Thanks BCA for allowing a guest to post an opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Buicks are BORING ! Have been for many years . Discontinued the Riviera - how stupid is that ? The only thing wrong with the last one was it was gutless - should have put the 32 valve Northstar engine in it . I told them that when I pre test drove it before it went on the market - did they listen - no - where is the car now ? <BR>Forget targeting the old farts ( Im 55 so Im no young hotshot just shootin my mouth off ) <BR>Buick has to design a sport 2 dr that has some real balls so they can compete with all the rice burners that the young crowd is buying these days . WAKE UP BUICK !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Can a product be judged by its celebrity sports spokesman? I think so; Golf is boring thus products advertised on Golf broadcasts are boring. <P>Anybody who has managed the financial resources to purchase a new car in the Buick price structuring probably has enough self confidence so as not to be influenced by any celebrity. Tiger Woods is more likely to give a Buick away as a gift rather than drive one to his private jet. I agree with the multitudes before me, build something interesting and we will come. But you’re not going to convince me by sales lectures from high priced hucksters. If the people who have replied to your inquiry drive to my house in something cool, that will carry a lot more weight than any celebrity endorsement in my future buying decision on any new car.<P>Build one with a supercharged 3800 on a 105 to 115 inch rear wheel drive wheelbase, base priced in the mid teens with a six speed advertise on programs like Survivor or the Great Race and Buick may be able to replenish its dwindling loyalty base.<P>zzbergie<P>Own three Buicks<BR>455ci Stage One Pro-Street Buick Skyhawk<BR>70 Buick Skylark 350<BR>3 Buick 455 Four Speed Gran Sport<P>PS<BR>Golf could be interesting if they had 3800 supercharged golf carts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUICK RACER Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Jeremy, there's some more comments on the BB at <A HREF="http://www.v8buick.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.v8buick.com</A> <BR>here's the link <A HREF="http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2089" TARGET=_blank>http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2089</A> <P>WE are having fun! I want one of those supercharged golf carts to run around in the pits at the drag races!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 At Roberta's suggestion, I'll venture a few comments. I'd go along with most of the general comments above, but the general theme seems to be that advertizing does not make the car. It's the other way around. There have been times when Buick was the #1 car: Try 1910 and 1940. What were the similarities? Why can't they be duplicated? The buying public is not stupid. When you have a better product at a lower price, you can believe they'll sell unless they're really ugly.<P>In both instances, the Buick was flat-out the best bang for the buck on the market. They were capable of great street performance, great longevity, and style comparable with luxury marques of the time, but at a production price. People who historically have bought Buicks are value conscious. They are not image-ostentatious. They are prosperous farmers, bankers, businessmen, and professionals who want to buy great quality, but don't splurge on image.<P>My dad bought Buicks from 1938 through 1952, and traded every 2 years with about 150,000 miles on the clock. Had a falling-out with the local Buick dealer, and thereafter bought mostly foreign cars for the rest of his life because he thought they were a better deal. I still think so. After a string of VW's, I now like Benzes, particularly the bulletproof 300 series diesels, which I've driven since 1978. If I'm going to buy a static design, I may as well buy one which will last. I have 3, all with more than a quarter million miles on them, and very little maintenence, and no holes in the upholstery! My '86 Suburban with less than half the miles has had to have the upholsery and the tranny replaced twice!<P>My classic '32 series 90 Buicks compete successfully styling-wise with the best automoblies of their time, including Duesenberg, Rolls, Stutz, Packard, Pierce and Marmon. In 1940, the Buick was the car of the stars, and the car to be emulated. Can the Buicks of today say the same? Why not?<P>Mac Blair<BR>BCA 2702<BR>National Chief Judge 1989-2000<BR>Chair, Judges' Training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 At Roberta's suggestion, I'll venture a few comments. I'd go along with most of the general comments above, but the general theme seems to be that advertizing does not make the car. It's the other way around. There have been times when Buick was the #1 car: Try 1910 and 1940. What were the similarities? Why can't they be duplicated? The buying public is not stupid. When you have a better product at a lower price, you can believe they'll sell unless they're really ugly.<P>In both instances, the Buick was flat-out the best bang for the buck on the market. They were capable of great street performance, great longevity, and style comparable with luxury marques of the time, but at a production price. People who historically have bought Buicks are value conscious. They are not image-ostentatious. They are prosperous farmers, bankers, businessmen, and professionals who want to buy great quality, but don't splurge on image.<P>My dad bought Buicks from 1938 through 1952, and traded every 2 years with about 150,000 miles on the clock. Had a falling-out with the local Buick dealer, and thereafter bought mostly foreign cars for the rest of his life because he thought they were a better deal. I still think so. After a string of VW's, I now like Benzes, particularly the bulletproof 300 series diesels, which I've driven since 1978. If I'm going to buy a static design, I may as well buy one which will last. I have 3, all with more than a quarter million miles on them, and very little maintenence, and no holes in the upholstery! My '86 Suburban with less than half the miles has had to have the upholsery and the tranny replaced twice!<P>My classic '32 series 90 Buicks compete successfully styling-wise with the best automoblies of their time, including Duesenberg, Rolls, Stutz, Packard, Pierce and Marmon. In 1940, the Buick was the car of the stars, and the car to be emulated. Can the Buicks of today say the same? Why not?<P>Mac Blair<BR>BCA 2702<BR>National Chief Judge 1989-2000<BR>Chair, Judges' Training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 A lot of talk of using the 3800, blown or unblown. This engine is well-developed, reliable, but near the end of its potential. And that valve train certainly doesn't say "technology", does it. Use the "shortstar" (another item Olds doesn't need anymore) and leave the 3800 to Pontiac for the poseur SSE. Then the divisions have (gasp) different engines, and might have a chance for product differentiation instead of just more advertising BS.<P>As to handling, my opinion is that Buick handling all falls into the mediocre to miserable range (would you like understeer, understeer, or even more understeer?). But I'm not sure that's a problem - Buick's historical image is as a highway car, and typically had mushy suspensions. Before someone starts with "yeah, but my GS..." muscle cars have fantastic acceleration but not much in handling - much less powerful but better handling sports cars with independent suspensions and disc brakes gave them fits in the twisties. I've spent seat time in both types.<P>In many ways the roles we are asking about fall to Cadillac these days, or at least to what Cadillac aspires to be. So there may not be funds for Buick development and it will continue only as long as it's worthwhile to badge engineer a Pontiac. The only role may be related to styling - Cadillac is taking an angular approach (personally I hate it, but at least it's different). Buick could have a more rounded look, continuing in the "copy Jaguar" vein, and then be a badge engineered Caddy instead of a badge engineered Pontiac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest COMPACTBC Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 When I was in Flint Mi at a BCA board meeting, I had the opportunity to meet and talk with some top executives of Buick. I think it was in the Winter of 1997. At the time I suggested that Buick needed to come out with a HIGH END SUV like Lexus to take the place of the estate wagon. The executives gave me the impression that they were very uninterested in a SUV. It took them FIVE YEARS to come out with a mediocre underpowered SUV, well after the SUV market had hit its peak. I hope it doesn't take them another 5 years to come our with a car like their Ciello concept car with a powerful engine, rear wheel drive, exciting exterior colors, and quality interiors.<BR> <p>[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: COMPACTBC ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1965cat Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 "Dave@Moon" and others suggest "were waiting" and "convince us"... I'm through waiting for Buick to sh_t or get off the pot!!! I am 34 and grew up driving Buicks from the 60's and 70's or GM trucks... The so-called Buick Tri-Shield is a thing of the distant past!! I agree with much of what has been posted here, but Buick is going to loose yet another loyal customer in that it's time for me to purchase a vehicle and I will not even include the Buick "slap-in-the-face" lineup... My '99 Silverado was built in Southern Texas (Mexico) and it is falling apart around me... and to find out Buick's are MFG'd in Mexico, you can forget it!!!<BR>I owe a debt of thanks to everyone on this board that has helped me restore my 65 Wildcat Conv...., but I hold no alliance with GM's weak attempt at keeping me a Buick customer... don't get me wrong, I will keep restoring old Buicks (next project - 50's Roadmaster or '59 LeSabre) but I refuse to entertain any thoughts of spending $25-35K with Buick or maybe even GM!!<P>Jeremy, I've got it!! Why don't you send Tiger an E-mail asking his history with Buicks, family history with Buicks, favorite all-time Buick, last Buick he restored or appreciated since he is the Buick spokesperson!! <P>1965CAT<BR>1965 Buick Wildcat Conv.<BR>1967 Wildcat 2-door<BR>1981 Skylark (Yes, I'm ashamed to admit)<BR>1988 Park Avenue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 1) Complete the sentence: Buick is...rapidly following Oldsmobile into the grave.<P>2)What type of person buys a buick?<BR>Geriatrics and those who accept bland transportation <BR>3)Did you know Buick sponsors Tiger Woods? How do you feel about that? <BR>Yes; I hope they don't pay much for it; it doesn't help Buick.<P>4) Why do you feel proud about owning a Buick? <BR>I'm not proud of Buick or GM as they currently are; they're an embarrassment to GM's once proud heritage. I'm proud of what Buick was in the 1950s to early 1970s:a stylish, up-scale, (often high-performance)luxury car with more provocative styling than a Cadillac.<P>5)What would it take to get me back in a Buick?<BR>A (full size) 2 door coupe with STYLE, excellent performance, lots of interior room (like a Dodge Intrepid, for example,... something Buick hasn't had since 1985). Oh yeah, and some basics Mercedes and others have and GM doesn't: optional engines, back seats that don't make you claustrophobic, limited editions (e.g., AMG) and more than 2 choices of interior color and more than the current 5 choices of exterior paint.<P>What I don't want:<BR>Another SUV or another 4 door bland sedan. I won't buy a SUV or a sedan, period; I'll stick with my 14 year old daily driver until something decent is built. And, I won't buy one of those tiny cars GM pushes... if I wanted something that awful I'd have bought a'86 Riviera when they were new.<P>Darwin Falk<BR>1966 Riviera GS<BR>1971 Riviera GS<BR>1967 Cadillac Eldorado<BR>1966 Oldsmobile Toronado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 If it's not a Buick engine it's not a Buick! PERIOD!!!<P>Leave the northstar to Caddy cause it's a Caddy engine. I'm not knocking them, I hear they are strong engines but they aren't Buicks. That's like putting a Chevy engine in a Buick, a disgrace. Pontiac hasn't had there own engine since I can't remember. if it wasn't for the Buick engine what would they do. The dying TA isn't even a Pontiac it's a Chevy. The '89 "BUICK" anniversary TTA was the best Pontiac that "Buick" ever built! <P>If you survey the "true Buick performance people" they will want a Buick engine and a majority will want a V8 Buick engine plant to be cast.Killing the V8 Buick engine WAS THE BIGGEST SCREW-UP BUICK HAS EVER MADE!The SC3800 is okay yes it's a Buick but not addiquit to what a Buick V8 can do with todays tech and fuel injection.<P>IF IT'S NOT A BUICK ENGINE, IT'S NOT A BUICK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Jeremy,<BR>Buick is: losing money, buyers, appeal.<P>The Buick buyer: is absent.<P>Yes I am aware Tiger is the spokesman. I don't care because Buick doesn't make any car I, or anyone else under 65, want to buy. God couldn't advertize Buicks and get anyone to buy. So it makes no difference who the pitch-man is. There are no products.<P>I am proud to drive my 1969 Riviera because people give me thumbs up when they see it. I'm stopped often and asked to talk about it. What new Buick can do that? It also moves its 4500 pound carcass down the quarter mile in 13 and a half seconds.<P>There is no ad campaign ANYONE could conceive that will sell Buicks as long as Buick makes cars nobody can recognize or will want to own down the road.<P>Think about this: In 10 years will anyone be collecting any car Buick has made since 1988? No. The 87 GN is the last car Buick made that anyone will collect/restore. In fact, it is the last car GM has made (except for the last year TA and Camaro) that anyone will collect/restore since the 1976 TA. 25 years with only 1 collectable model is heinous for a car manufacturer. At least the Boattial Riv is seriously collectable.<P>Good luck, Jeremy. But no ad campaign will save Buick or sell Buicks. Only PRODUCT can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 I see that you are really getting beat up by this, but it is Buick that should be getting beat up over their cars.<BR>Without trying to repeat what has already been said, Buicks don't have any appeal. The only people that are buying Buicks, are people who have always had Buicks. Nothing made by Buick catches my attention. They have nothing to attract new buyers.<BR> In the past, it was common knowledge, that when someone went to look at the new Corvette, or Buick Riviera, or Olds 442, that they may not be able to spring for one of those, but they would for something more in line with their needs/finances. You have to have something to attract buyers to the dealership. Then when they are ready to move up, they move up to the more expensive, and less practical car. Unless the Blackhawk was on display at the Buick dealer, or I needed a part for my Riviera, I would have no reason to stop and look, or even to turn my head as I drive by.<BR> SUVs are a craze, and they may last a long time, just like the soccer mom mini-vans. But a rebodied Aztek! Nothing is appealing, nothing sets it apart, not a performance oriented SUV by any means. Like the GS guys slogan, "Going Fast With Class", is not a slogan for any current Buick model. And yes, Tiger Woods is a great golfer, but even though I golf, having a golfer as a spokesperson does not persuade me to buy anything. I am persuaded by quality, uniqueness, and value. And Buick may have the quality, but nothing else. Where is the vision that brought us the Riviera GS, the Grand National, the Wildcat convertible, and so many other memorable cars? I think they may be working at Daimler-Chrysler!<P>Sean Cahill<BR>wldrvr@aol.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 In my earlier post I said Buick needed to put some performance back into the market. The generation coming up sees a Honda or Nissan with loud exhaust and tinted windows as performance. One thing I will say is they are in their own way unique. When the bean counters took over GM and made it a "corporation" with corporate engines, chassis and bodies they pulled the trigger on cars like Buick, Olds and probably eventually Pontiac. We lost the identity that made each of these cars unique. Buick motors were just that, Buick! Torque monsters and respectable HP for heavy cars, but also able to make the Skylark into a respectable GS for anyone. GM had better look at the direction of Olds and see what really put it on the chopping block. Their own exec's and designers (and accountants) killed the line. Not the buyers. People would still be buying Olds and Buick If they truly were what the badge says. I'm not one or unions or any organized labor, but the pride that those workers had and memories of the cars they built is something that should never be forgotten. Lets see if the Mexicans or Japanese can boast about the cars that were turned out of Buick City and the likes. The people at Buick are wondering what is happening to their market share? Take the outrageous bonuses paid to the exec's and put it back into developing a car that is really wanted and needed (at an affordable price). They will never capture a new generation of buyers at 30k plus prices. Marketing is not the problem , the product is. I grew up with my Dad buying 50's and 60's Buicks and loving everyone of them. They were a car you could identify and identify with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 What Buick needs to do:<BR>Bring back the Grand National/Turbo-T.<BR>Bring back the GS/GSX.<BR>Bring back the Riviera.<BR>All powered by turbocharged V-6's & or V-8's with rear wheel drive.<BR>Buick builds a fancy GSX for the SEMA show & cancells it!<BR>Buick builds the Bengal & cancells it!<BR>Buick builds the Blackhawk & cancells it!<BR>If Buick would simply package a rear wheel drive, high horesepowered 2-door coupe & give it some pizzaz they wouldn't need to waste there money on Tiger Woods advertising, they would sell themselves!!!!<BR>Rendezvous--Umm, no comment!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Poor Jeremy, if he is still reading (but not responding anymore, I noticed) this thread, I bet he didn't expect to open this can of worms. Jeremy should be looking for another assignment at McCann. It is obvious to most of us that GM is allowing Buick to go the way of the Olds, the only product that is advertised at all is the Rendez-whatever.<P>If Jeremy wanted to talk to his potential and current customer base, he should be checking the Old Country Buffett at 4:00 PM. Plenty of newer Buicks there for Early Bird dinner. Not very many of the people at this Bulletin Board are who you are looking for Jeremy.<P>I am inspired about all the ideas posted here to generate more excitement for the Buick brand, too bad GM is just going to push out all the Centurys and LeSabres it can before the customer is dead, thank god for medical breakthroughs or Buick would have been gone before Olds.<P>The product is the problem and if Bob Lutz gives a damn about Buick, there could be an exciting future, personally I would find it more entertaining if someone would stick a club up Tiger's ass and then Buick could spend the money on some fresh product talent.<P>McCann-Erickson can only improve it's advertising when there is something to improve on.<p>[ 04-09-2002: Message edited by: wildcat465 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Man Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Here, here!!<P>I agree with Wildcat 465, with one additional comment. <P>It looks as if GM has moved the murder, er, demise of Olds to the fast track, and the name will be totally gone by late next year or early 2004. Since they are determined to do away with their oldest brand (and sales of 260,000 units per year) maybe they will have the excess plant capacity to move production of the Rendezvous BACK TO THE US, and in the process, keep several thousand American families off of unemployment. <P>And, oh, one other Christmas wish--get that 3.4 out of there, and replace it with the Olds hi-tech 3.5 or the reliable Buick 3.8. The 3.4 makes a great boat anchor, but that's about it. <P>If they did that, and added some snappy shades of red, blue, pearl white, aqua or green, I MIGHT be able to visualize a Rendezvous in my driveway someday soon. <P><BR>MR. LUTZ, ARE YOU LISTENING???????<BR>Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kozaka Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 i hate new cars all of them that's why i went and bought a 71 buick riviera whith the new cars you have to be a electrician not a mechanic lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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