1952 Derham (?)

[huffreport]

Hi all,

I'm a newbie here, and joined in part so I could see if someone can tell me what the heck this car is... I once owned a 1953 Clipper, but over the last year or so, I've been trying to track down the owner of a Derham that my dad had told me about. Well, I finally got some photos of the car, but it is VERY rough. It just makes me sad to see this thing so far gone... So, I will probably pass on this car, as I simply have too many projects, but still, I'd like for SOMEONE to tell me what the heck this thing is. It's NOT your typical Derham, as I've gone back and reviewed photos from books/magazines/etc., and this thing is clearly different. For one thing, after careful examination, I realized the doors are somewhat longer than the typical Derham from that period. Also, this car has JUMP seats!... I do know that this car was once owned by the President of Champion Spark Plugs, and that it's been sitting outside under a tarp for about 5 years. Before that it was in a building, but I suspect it had been sitting out for a long time before it went indoors... The rust is severe. I'd love to have this thing, but I just don't have the stomach for something this rough... I'd like all of you who know some things about early '50s Packards to take a look and tell me if you know anything about this car. I will probably eventually link the page to my site, and try to sell it for the owners. It's clearly a very special car... I contacted Gerald Perschbacher and he seemed to think it could be EITHER Derham or Deitrich... (I'm not sure I have the spelling right on that)... He agreed that it's a rare beast... Pass this info along to your Packard Club Buddies. This one deserves to be saved.... Thanks for looking! Kevin

Here's the link:

http://www.huffreport.com/2004/derham.htm

[Pierce66]

Great pictures - how tragic that such an elegant car came to that !

I dont know how many of these so called "Derhams" were built, but I have seen more than one '53. One of our better known Packards International members in the Santa Ana, California area has a beautiful one. I do not recall that they were "stretched" sedans - I recall them as just as standard Patrician/300 series body shells, having a "formal sedan" type rear window, and a fancy center compartment between the front and back seats - again, very elegant!

Those Derhams looked so much better than the limo. they had in that year, which, if memory serves, was just the Clipper rear shell "tacked on" to an extended sedan. I dont know if they did the "Derham" treatment to any of the full limos that Packard had built by ..hmm..was it Henny ?

I hope you decide to try and restore that thing - gawd...what that would entail, I dont even want to think about the time, cost, and effort. I still dont have access to my library of old Packard-related items, but hopefully someone in here will remember which publication had a full article, with pictures, about these fantastic elegant looking '53 "Derhams". Hopefully, one of our other "posters" will be able to find the articles for you, and that will whet your appettie to try and save this interesting piece of automotive history.

I keep referring to them as 1953's, because I never saw or heard of any later "Derham" Patricians. Just dont know.

Dog Spot

[Pierce66]

Just took another look at the photos...yeah..it sure DOES look like the rear portion was "stretched". Also, note the front windshield. We know this car was built as a 1953 model - but dosnt the front windshield (look at the rounded top of the windshield outer upper corners) look like the '51 - '52' roof stamping? ?

Dog Spot

[Packard8]

Hello & welcome,

Go to the ?showroom? section of the www.packardclub.org website and look at the 1954 cars. There is a photo of a nice ?54 Derham on the 149? wheelbase. I don?t know for sure, but I suspect that Henney built the basic limo and Derham subsequently modified the roof.

[Guest]

Kevin: The car is a 1952 Packard Derham with 1953 outer grille shell, inner grille, and 1953 bumper. In 1953 there where 25 of these cars produced.

[Constellation]

It certainly looks to me like a 52 Henny Limo Body modified with a small back light to look like Derham or was hence a modified by Derham with a 53 nose. This probably is an example of a very late 1952 Limo Body that was fitted with enough 53 style adornment to become a 53 and they just retained the 52 trim.

Pierce66 You are right about the windshield it is 51-52 vintage. Unfortunately, the car the car was left to the elements. What a shame. It would be restorable with ton of work and elbow grease.

Bob

[Pierce66]

A fifty TWO Henny limo ? Didn't know there was such a thing. But again, the sad, rusted mess in the photos, does NOT to me appear to be anything more than a standard Patrician/400/300/Cavalier shell. "Stretched" in the rear door area? Sure looks like it.

You sure about that "'52 Henny" business?

Again, only Derhams I ever saw had '53 front clips and rear trim and, again, were on the Patrician/400/300/Cavalier shell. Never saw a Henny fitted out as a "Derham". As we can see from the Packard Club photos, there were also '54's, and some on the so called "Henny limo" chassis.

As far as the curved, rather than sharp corner upper windshield - yeah...we know that is not regular 195THREE production - bet there is a story in all this as to why the upper body shell is '51 / '52 and the front clip a '53. Best guess, is they shipped out to Henny what they had handy in Parts Stores that afternoon..!

Dog Spot

[Guest Albert]

That car looks in better shape than the 54 Clipper Special I bought a number of years ago that was parked in a field since 1959 untouched. With a little sand paper and some welding an making up and english wheel to make new rear quarter panels it all came back together with a little work. It would make a great project when done though..

[Pierce66]

Hi, Albert:

I hope you are right and someone will take on that job and treat it right. I havn't participated in a major restoration for a number of years, and thus have lost track of the costs, prices, etc. Assuming a hard worker could do the body and mechanical work himself, what kind of rough guess / estimate do you think would be in the ball park for:

1) the cost of re chroming a car of that type would be ?

2) What do you figure the cost of an authentic interior would be ? I have the awful feeling costs have gone so far out of sight in the last few years, this car could be an economic disaster - my recollection of the interior of the Derhams, is that they were just about as elegant and featured the same kind of extremely expensive and rare Laidlaw-type broadcloth and Wilton "moss-tread" carpets as the traditional "top of the line" Packards from before World War Two. I was quoted MANY years ago a price of TEN GRAND to re-do my '38. Dont want to THINK what it would cost today.

Which gets us to the real tragedy of why we don't see as many "project" cars being restored these days. It has always been the case that it costs far more to restore a rough car, than just go out and buy the same type of car in good shape. Trouble is, the costs are so much higher these days; probably scares people away.

Somewhere around the house I have a copy of Robert Gottlieb's CLASSIC CARS AND ANTIQUES, published around 1952, which tried to explain to the general auto buff public why some of us crazies thought the big luxury cars of the pre-war days were worth saving. I think I am quoting exactly when he said "it makes no sense to pay $75. for a classic that needs work, when you can buy a sharp, serviceable one in near new condition for $175......!

I dont know which would be the greater shame - letting that rusted out hulk disappear, or have someone take it on who can NOT do it justice, so that it is not "restored" in the REAL meaning of the word. An accurate restoration of that incredibly rich-looking interior would be a gift to history. An inaccurate restoration would not explain to people what we mean when we say "the best of the best".

Dog Spot

[huffreport]

Hi, in my opinion, it's not JUST the cost of getting the chrome done, or the interior, or any other part of the car. Part of the problem would be finding someone talented enough to do it right. These days, it seems its hard to find anyone WILLING to do this kind of work... Or, when you do, it's just outrageously expensive. I have been somewhat disappointed by some of the people who've done work for me, and worse yet, it seems to take forever! My dad has had similar experiences. He has one car that was in the body shop for almost 3 years, and it didn't need much at all... I suppose you could look at it as free storage... Then the upholsterer had it for another year. He always had some excuse... "Oh, I'm having problems with my eye", or "My wife has been sick", or some such lame excuse. Finally, my dad threatened to come over and get the car and have it done somewhere else, and that seemed to motivate the guy... Yes, it's hard finding good reliable help. Plus, as for the chrome on this car, I can tell you from experience with a Clipper, that pot metal is very hard to buff smooth. You'd never be able to get all the pits out, although there are shops that will plate, buff, plate, etc., or I think it's also possible to silver solder the pits. But how long would THAT take? You'd spend a while trying to track down really pit-free pot metal. The Cormorant on this thing is a good example. Ever try plating one of THOSE? Way too many compound curves, and if you found a good one on eBay it would be high $$$.... Yes, these are all things I've thought about, and that's why I'm too spooked to buy this car myself... If it were cheaper, I'd probably buy it just to have it, and decide later what to do with it. But, storage is a problem too. You can't have them ALL! Still, this is quite an unusual car...

[Guest Randy Berger]

Huff, I agree with you, but you can have the potmetal done by Pot Metal Restoration in Tallahassee, Fla. He does not grind the pits out, but has a different process. BUT he aint cheap either! This car will be scrapped - no one wants to take on that big a challenge.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest Albert]

Any of the chrome work gets expensive, and once you start farming things out costs can get out of hand very quickly, so far i have been lucky enought to be able to do almost everything mechanical, and the bodywork. Though it did take a almost a year doing the body and replacing almost the entire floor and the flood structure as well as making an english wheel to fab a couple of new quarter panels. See Attachment