55PACKARD Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Ok here it goes i have 51,380 miles on my car the car runs like a top i love the motor i just dont love the lifter noise i tried the extra qt trick differnt weight oils etc.etc.etc. I came to the conclusion i want to due the updated oil pump..Will THIS STOP MY LIFTER NOISE.....or am i going to be wasting my time...the car never never makes lifter noise until i go on the highway around 2200 to 2500 rpm the noise occurs, so will getting the oil pump rebuilt with this bushing or whatever they do ,will this help PROBLEM????????. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted June 12, 2004 Author Share Posted June 12, 2004 No one else has an opinion on what i should do and who's rebuilt pump to use???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 The infamous engine noise and oil pump again! Well, in summarizing from my threads, the problem was very bad main bearings. But I changed out the pump to one rebuilt with the vacuum pump intact. From the NUMEROUS email exchanges, periodicals, this chat site, and one-on-one discussions with folks, it seemed to be divided right about 50/50 as to which oil pump to use in the rebuild, i.e., one with the vacuum pump or one with a block out plate. First thing I would suggest is to verify the oil pressure at those 2200-2500 RPM with a numbered oil pressure gauge and you can see where to hook one up on that previous thread about oil pumps. There is a tap right beside the normal oil pressure pickup. See what the pressure is at speed. Indeed, I also have been keeping my Packards 1/2-1 quart over filled and that I started doing because one of them would start rattling if I idled on a hill for more than a moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 The generally accepted oil pressure numbers appear to be 45-50 psi just after startup, 25-30 cruising down the road at 55-65 mph, and somewhere around 10 psi at idle. If you come up with those readings, then you will have "the system" verified. Then you'll have to take it from there to determine what might be the weak component(s). In my ordeal, I changed out pumps twice and still had no pressure after a couple miles. My engine is of unknown miles but three mains were totally eaten up and the other two pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(snip) My engine is of unknown miles but three mains were totally eaten up and the other two pretty bad. </div></div>RO: did you establish the replacement main bearing clearance using plastiguage or ?Also, do you have an opinion as to why the mains were "eaten up"?I presume that the crank itself was OK, just the bearings were bad. In several crank/bearing failures that I have seen, <span style="font-weight: bold">BOTH</span> were bad. Maybe you were lucky? (If one can call main bearing failure only -- lucky!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Well, we did the rods with plastigauge but the mains were down to copper. I posted a photo or two back in the January-February timeframe under a second thread about the engine I think. I refoundthe photos and am attaching here. But the crank was also bad and had to be ground down. We went with 10 under on the rods but 20 under on the mains. I think the problem was the oil pump originally. Even though I was told the engine was "rebuilt" 11-12 years ago, driven "ok" for 100 miles and parked, they had not done anything on the engine bottom side. But it's hard to say since the engine came from another car and mileage unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 second view of worn mains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Since I had the mains and crank done at a shop, I do not know the order of them, but all are shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted June 12, 2004 Author Share Posted June 12, 2004 Ok i do have an oil presuure gauge hooked up here my readings as follows. Start up cold 40 to 50 psi after she warms up anywhere from 30 to 25 at idle car in nuetral, in gear it will go to 20 to maybe as low as 15 psi crusing down the road at speeds anywhere over 25 its stay around 40 to 45 psi so i think the thats ok..what do you guys think..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1956Packard Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 I should be so lucky......They look good to me - but I'm no master mechanic. I thought, though, the pressure was to max out at 40 - triggering the relief valve?? Someone can correct me.Anyway, I had my pump rebuilt saving the vacuum pump. I replaced main and rod bearings. My pressures are ok at start up and when at cruising speed, but when the oil is hot the pressure will drop quite low - to sub 5 at idle.I'm keeping my eyes and ears open (and fingers crossed).Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 READ CLOSELY someone wrote:"...the car never never makes lifter noise until i go on the highway around 2200 to 2500 rpm the noise occurs, ..."have u tried disconnecting the oil filter????? have u tried disconnecting the oil filter?????have u tried disconnecting the oil filter?????have u tried disconnecting the oil filter????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since I had the mains and crank done at a shop, I do not know the order of them, but all are shot. </div></div>So, you removed the crank with the engine in the car, leaving the pistons & rods in their cylinders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(snip) My pressures are ok at start up and when at cruising speed, but when the oil is hot the pressure will drop quite low - to sub 5 at idle.I'm keeping my eyes and ears open (and fingers crossed).</div></div>Yes, below 5psi at hot idle is VERY worrisome. Try PackardV8's trick of [color:"red"] temporarily disconnecting (blocking) the oil filter feed line and see if that changes anything.As a point of reference, my 55 Pat has 15-20psi at hot idle and no lifter noise while running. [color:"red"] BUT, the original Pontiac 350 engine in my 1976 Firebird turbo project car had less than 5psi at hot idle. Recently, I inspected the main & rod bearings in it since that motor has been replaced with a fresh Pontiac 400. Most main and rod bearings were very scored with ridges. The crank journals matched. None of the bearings were down to the copper like RO's example. There could be other reasons for low hot idle oil pressure, but the bearings are the [color:"blue"] Usual Suspects. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(snip) Dick Benjamin's <span style="font-style: italic">TPC</span> article on the V8 indicated that some sort of flow restriction orifice was factory-installed in filter inlet elbow, and a missing one will cause loss of pressure.Just food for thought. </div></div>Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Also, on a related topic, a full flow filter wouldn't be a [color:"red"] LEAK, albeit a small one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Craig, engine came totally out of the car for the rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Ok i'll try to run the car with out the filter but which way is the best way to shut it off or tempoarlly diconnect it????? Oh yeah my car does the same thing too i have to be on the highway over 2200 to 2500 rpm for them to start making noise and its not all of them its maybe 1 or 2 lifters that make noise once i come dowm to regular rpm's the lifter noise goes away...i think its weird that they even start to make noise at all will good oil pressure...huh???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 I tried to SEARCH for previous postings by searching "oil filter, disconnect oil filter, and bypass oil filter" but, like on ebay, came up with hundreds of unrelated topics to what I was looking for. I found one usable posting by Keith back in 12/03 and he apparently installed a valve in his oil filter pressure line so he can cut it on/off. That's one way or you can plug the inlet line to the filter canister or run a bypass tube around the filter canister. I forget the line size, but I was going to do that myself back when and found the line to be just a fuel line, not 3/8 or 5/16 but maybe 1/4" line. I just cannot recall if the lines came with correct fittings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Thanks im sure its a pipe plug type if i would want to plug it off which one is the supply side the one near the intake right.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Yes, that should be the inlet or supply line. I used that line to hook up an oil pressure gauge at that point just to see if the pressure was consistent throughout the system on mine and it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 The supply to the oil filter comes directly out of the front of the head up to the side of the filter - the outlet (drain) comes from the bottom of the filter and drains back into the block near the oil filler pipe.YFAM, Randy Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1956Packard Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dick Benjamin's TPC article on the V8 indicated that some sort of flow restriction orifice was factory-installed in filter inlet elbow, and a missing one will cause loss of pressure.</div></div>I don't suppose there was any mention of orifice size.? Any thoughts on installing a gate (or butterfly or ball valve) and partially closing it to restrict flow? That would also leave one the option of opening it completly for free flow every once any a while if desired. Wouldn't look good but......Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 Ok so if i block the tube coming out of the head with say a pipe plug could i leave the other tube next to the filler tube hooked up or should i disconnect that too??? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Leave it hooked up. Nothing is going in so nothing will be coming out. I would just put a valve in line on the input side and you could then vary the amount of oil you let into the filter.YFAM, Randy Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Query OR vs AND. This is why everyone loves Google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 I use the "abcdefg" on ebay and it really limits the findings, sometimes eliminating items I might have preferred to look at. Looks like you found the "" will work on this site as well....soemthing to remember in the future. Sometimes on searches on other sites it is **....and I have even seen abcde%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted June 15, 2004 Author Share Posted June 15, 2004 Ok i guys i get that idea of blocking the oil from the filter what type of valve did you guys use? and where did you get it from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 the search operators 'and' and 'or' really need to be expanded to the negation of those operators such as 'Nand' and 'Nor'. As in 'NOT and' and 'NOT or'. Several years ago it was suggested to ANSI to adapt them to COBOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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