Straight 8 Engine Rotation?

[Guest]

Standing in front of the car, with my ample belly leaning against the grille, what direction would I see my Buick straight eight engine crank pulley, fan, etc. rotating? Clockwise, or counter-clockwise? Thanks, guys.

[our51super]

I vote for Clockwise.<BR>I think most car engines turn clockwise when facing them as you've described. (About 85% sure of this)<P>FYI - WWII radial engines turn clockwise as viewed from the pilot seat. (in case you're on Jeopardy or something). (100% sure of this one)<P>Cheers!

[Guest]

Clockwise. To the best of my knowledge all auto engines turn clockwise taken at the front of the engine. There r some modern exceptions like Honda (i think). NOTE that some of the modern engines (since about 1980) that use serpentine belts will have fans that may or may not turn in the opposite direction of the crank. This is due to the fan being driven by the BACK sideof serp the belt. Dont let serp belts confuse you when looking at engine rotation.

[Guest]

Hey,John,ol' Buddy,it's normal for some to know which way you CRANK a car,but with a Buick you usually have a starter that works,so you forget. Yhe Brush was cranked CCW,but MOST other cars CW. Now you know.See you at Iola !

[Guest]

Thanks for the help, guys. I appreciate your time. AND, RALPH....it's good to know the gray matter is still doing its job! Thank you for responding. Yes, Iola isn't that far off...an exciting thought See you there, my friend.

[Guest scott mich bca # 6619]

Crin is correct.<P>Actualy, the all rotate cloclwise from the front of the car. Not sure about new or imports.<P>But here is the catch. Those airplane engines rotated the same way as the car engines, except they were mounted in the planes with the flywheels in front, so they only appeared to rotate the opposite way.<BR>This is true of single engine planes.<P>This was covered in Old Cars Weekly a few weeks back.<P>The exception:<BR>On the 2 engine planes, the engines rotated in opposite directions one on each wing, to balance each other out.<P>Scott Mich

[Guest]

The old Brush had wooden axles YES wooden,and the engine turned counter clockwise.The Gypsy Moth airplane had a prop that turned clockwise,looking at it from the front.

[Guest]

Military Tanks used 2 Cadillac V-8s for a few years. One would turn clockwise and the other counterclockwise. Its all in the camshaft.

[Guest]

Can you get me one of those Cad engines that turns backward? I know a museum that would like to have it.

[Guest]

My uncle "Zeke"bought one of them thar Surpluss engines to put in his 39 Ford he used for drlivering (merchandize).When you put it in "D" it backed up,so we tryed "R" then it would go ahead,but wouldnt upshift. We put a gayge on the trans(cant remember how to spell it),anihow the gayge,hooked up to the hand went down to 16.5 inches of Mercury instead of pressure..Until the ex-spert splained about the left-handed tank engines,we was at a loss .Now we know.If you tune in this here web sight,sooner or after,ENNY cwestion will sooner or layter be anserred

[Guest]

The two engines in the tank were easy to tell apart,the one had "Cadillac" on the rocker cover.The other one had "Callidac"

[Guest]

Hey,John,one important item which has not been discussed(every other has), on a Buick in-line engine, the fan always turns the same direction as the CAMSHAFT ! If your Buick has timing GEARS,the fan turns COUNTER clockwise, if your Buick has timing chain and SPROCKETS,the fan turns CLOCKWISE.This is for your information.. The CCW Cadillac engine fascinates me,I would like to hear more about it.

[Guest]

Hi Caddy ”expert”<BR>The Cadillac engines used in tanks was flathed engines and did not have rocker covers.<P>Vegard<BR>Norwegian Buick “expert”

[Guest]

Hey guy,glad to have you aboard.I was born and raised in a Norwegian community.(They had the BEST LOOKING girls around!) Two of my very best friends married Norwegian girls.A couple guys seem to have a sharp sense of humor,and some how this thing got started.Have you ever heard of "Tongue -in- cheek ? I think there is a bit of it here.Have fun,enjoy life (send me some Lutefisk)

[Guest]

Most twin engine boats have engines that run in opposite directions. Same reason as airplanes. They regularly use automotive blocks (Chrysler,Ford and GM) which are built up for whichever direction you need.<BR>Depending on internal design you may need more than just the cam changed.

[Guest]

In WW I,there were the Gnome and LeRhone aircraft engines where the CRANKSHAFT was stationary, and the rest of the engine rotated. What direction would you say they turned ?

[Guest]

The only thing you are missing here is the low-down on KK doughnuts. Switch over to the AACA web to get up-to-date !

[our51super]

Two of the more important rotary<BR>engines were the Gnome and the Le Rhone.<P> Indeed, the rotating mass of the engine did act as a significant<BR>gyroscope with the result that the airplane "preferred" turning one<BR>direction to the other. In other words, when turning, say, to the<BR>right, the nose would climb and the plane would loose speed. On the<BR>other hand, you could do a fast, diving turn to the left. Of course,<BR>the "sign" of these effects depends on the direction of rotation of<BR>the engine.<P> Another idiosyncrasy of the rotary engines was that they did not<BR>have throttled carburetors. Once started, the engine ran flat out.<BR>Duty-cycle control was used to reduce the engine's time-averaged power<BR>output. Remember the movies of World War I aviation? As a plane<BR>would be coming in for a landing, you would hear the engine running in<BR>bursts. This was because the pilot was momentarily pressing an<BR>ignition kill switch to cut the engine's output and thus modify the<BR>plane's speed and height.<P> Yet another quirk is that the rotaries used a lubrication system<BR>that I believe is similar to that of a two-stroke engine --- a<BR>lubricant was mixed with the fuel or fed in with the fuel and air.<BR>Castor oil was the lubricant used, and apparently a great deal of it<BR>was spewed out by the engine. This was why the early pilots wore silk<BR>scarves; they didn't like having castor oil running down their necks.<BR>Also, unrestored airplanes of that vintage were found to have a<BR>shellac-like substance coated onto parts of the wings and fuselage.<BR>This was "fossilized" castor oil.<P><BR> <P> <P>Based on the statement above of "you could do a fast, diving turn to the left" I would say that it still rotated clockwise from the pilot's view. I'd have to break out a moments of inertia (mass properties) book and I already passed that class so no more tests.<BR>

[our51super]

I just realized something and I don't know if anyone cares except for maybe Wm Hill, but in looking at the aircraft picture I noticed that the only way that propeller would be able to push the aircraft forward is if it turned clockwise (from the pilot's view). So for a definate answer as to the rotation of the Gnome rotary engine -- it is clockwise from the pilot seat. <P>Great! I can sleep tonight.<P>Cheers!

[Guest]

Who said the Gypsy Moth had a ROTARY engine?

[Guest]

I believe the correct term is radial engine, and I see that our "unregistered user" has reared his ugly head again---right Reatta Cruzin.<P>Interesting subject nevertheless.

[our51super]

Actually the aircraft engines which rotated around a stationary crankshaft were indeed called 'rotary' (not like the Mazda). Here's some more info I found:<P>-----------------------------------------<BR>Aircaft Engine Design Revolution<P>Brief history highlights of The Golden Age of Aviation and how air racing furthered<BR>Engine Development<P>Engine Types<P>The Rotary Engine.<P> (the engine propeller was attached to the crankcase, and the propeller, crankcase and cylinders rotated as one, while the crankshaft was stationary and fixed, being attached indirectly to the airframe.)<P>Radial Engine<P>(It had an odd number of cylinders disposed around a circular crankcase facing fore and aft, so that all the engines cylinders face the airstream.) <P>In-Line Engine <P>(This means that cylinders were in-line one behind the other and mounted on top of the crankcase.)<P>Flat Engine<P>(The engine is flat and the cylinders are horizontally opposed from each other with the crankcase in the center.<P>Vee-type Engine<P>(When viewed from the front there are two banks of cylinders: 8 cylinder engines usually had two banks of four cylinders separated by an angle of 90 degrees, while a twelve cylinder engine had two banks of six cylinders separated by an angle of 60 degrees.<BR>------------------------------------------<P>I find it really amuzing how some of these topics get so far off the original question.<BR>It's very entertaining and educational I think.<P>Cheers!

[Guest]

Gypsy Moths are inline, but with the crankshaft of top and the cylinders underneath.

[Guest]

Hey,Buddy,you ask what time it is ,and you get instuctions on how to assemble an eight-day clock! Pardon me for not getting to you sooner,but raise the hood,have someone hit the starter,and there you have it! Try "US" with a real poser sometime ! Always glad to help,Zeke.

[Guest]

ENGINE ROTATION ON AUTOMOBILES ONLY!<P> All automobile engines turn to right (Clockwise) when viewed from the front as if you were cranking the engine over with a hand crank!!! This due to the people who made the first engines breaking thumbs, fingers, forearms, arms in general, shoulders and other parts of the human body that are breakable or that can be put into a state of supreme pain. A right handed person had better crank it to the right so that if he inadvertently has not retarded the spark and he hasn?t wrapped his thumb around the crank handle and it back fires he is much less likely to, # 1 break his thumb, # 2 break other parts of their body as mentioned above.<BR> This means that one of the greatest inventors of all time is Charles Kettering and the Delco system. This also means that if you have an old Buick that has to be hand cranked you had better beware and make absolutely sure that the spark is retarded before hand cranking the engine. It not only hurts but also makes you feel and look foolish.<BR>This also means that the engine when view from the drivers seated position the engine turns to the left or counterclockwise. I advise people who are left handed not to hand crank engines but to sucker a right handed person to do it. Or to make sure that they do it right-handed. It is not fun to get hurt in any case! Yours M.L. Anderson

[Guest]

WRONG !! Brush you crank counter=clockwise.

[Guest]

What direction did the engines turn on a Ford Tri-motor?

[Guest]

Seems like nobody read the question. he wouldn't see it turning in any direction as he didn't even open the hood! the answers though were interesting I'd like to add a few things, Some "in Line engines were horizontally opposed like VW. Others had two crankshafts one ot the top and the other at the bottom with the pistons forming the combustion chamber. Like in the British Cheiftain tank. Some vehicles fitted the engine backwards and! in the rear of the vehicle like the British scorpion. what do you all make of this??

[Guest]

Where's 33Ply

[Guest]

Hey John you have a way of posing a question that REALLY brings out wonderful answers! Give us a treat ask MORE !

[Guest]

Crin: I made a post with a Q: about radial engines. I must be a log head, but how on earth did they get the fuel into to he cylinders if the mass of the block was spininng around a stationary crank?

[our51super]

Aircraft "radial" engines didn't spin around the crank, they were stationary. The early aircraft "rotary" (not like the Mazda) spun around the stationary crank. As far as how the fuel got in, beats me. Do a search on Yahoo on the Gnome engine and I'm sure you'll find your answer.

[Guest]

On the rotary engine the carb is mounted on the (rear) end of the stationary crankshaft.<BR>The intake charge is drawn through the hollow crankshaft into the engine crankcase and from the crankcase through individual intake runners to each intake valve.<P>While we are on the subject of rotary/radial engines:<BR>The four stroke radial engine MUST have a odd number of cylinders (3, 5, 7 ,9) to function properly. <BR>On a radial engine all the connecting rods are connected to one crankshaft throw.<BR>Like all four stroke engines all the cylinders must fire in two crankshaft revolutions.<BR>Lets take a 7 cylinder radial engine: the firing starts with cylinder #1, skips #2 then fire #3, skips #4 then fire #5, skips #6 then fire #7. So in the first crankshaft revolution the firing order would be #1, #3, #5, and #7.<BR>The next cylinder to be skipped on the second crankshaft revolution would be cylinder #1 then fire #2, skips #3 etc. On the second crankshaft revolution the firing order would be #2, #4, and #6 and the #7 cylinder is then skipped and #1 fires to start the hole process again. <BR>On a radial engine with an even numbers of cylinders two adjacent cylinders must fire on the same crankshaft revolution making for a rough running engine.<P>Vegard<BR>Norwegian BCA member

[Guest John Chapman]

My observations on the engine rotation discussion and associated myths, truth, justice and the American way tempered with 5500+ hours in various forms of prop driven aircraft:<P>Myth: all multi-engine aircraft have counter-rotating engines/propellers. In fact, this is the rare exception instead of the rule. My right calf is still an inch larger than the left from years of rudder use to control prop torque on two Allison T-56s. In practicality (read $$), counter rotation doubles the supply/spares requirement and increases system complexity while decreasing interchange capability. Counter rotation was used on a handfull of twin engine pursuit and light attack aircraft in WWII to enhance control response at/near the 'edge of the envelope' (design limit). Prop torque in modern aircraft is pretty easily dealt with by hydraulic-powered flight controls. There are a number of aircraft that have counter rotating props on one shaft driven by one or more engines (e.g. Tu-95 Bear and the British Gannet) that effectively cancel out prop torque.<P>Myth: Dual drive boats commonly have counter rotation. Nahhh.... reasons are same as above. Plus, CR engines cost 10-25% more than ones that turn the 'right' way and it's not worth the improvement in torque control except in high-performance applications (e.g. BIG mother motors in a small hull)<P>Truth: Radial engines rule! There's nothing like the acrid smell of 115/145 aviation gasoline exhaust to clear the sinuses on a crisp morning. The sound of such engines operating will clear the hangar of old timers who, regardless of weather will be standing out to watch with misty eyes the magnificent...or not so magnificent... air beast creating the music.<P>Truth: Rotary engines died a deserved death as ill-tempered, oil slinging, bearing burning nightmareish examples of rotational mass physics.<P>Truth: When slow and dirty in a high performance military single engine prop, sudden application of full power will usually result in an abrupt torque roll (airplane rotated smartly around the engine) which (if survived) will soil one's flying suit in a most shameful way. Sorta reframes the relative output of a 455.<P>Truth: Any landing you can walk away from is a good one... A landing where you can use the aircraft again is a great one.<P>Justice: There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots.<P>The American Way: In many states, you can be a licensed pilot and fly solo before you are allowed to have a driver's license. Conceivably you could be instrument and multi-engine rated, fly coast to coast in instrument conditions with passengers... and have to take a taxi once on the ground.<p>[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: John Chapman ]

[Guest]

Jet Engines?

[Guest]

Did you mention the displacement?

[Guest]

Did you get one answer you can use yet?

[Guest]

I checked Mine But it was outta gas<BR>Sorry ;-) <P>I made some vidz of our plane.. That did<BR>not work cuz I could not see the prop in the videos!<BR><A HREF="http://woodgraining.com/bird/" TARGET=_blank>Video Of The Cub Landing</A><BR> I give Up!<BR>Jdee

[Jyrki]

John, I have to disagree with the boat thing. Most twin engine STERN DRIVE boats do have counter rotating props, as two props rotating the same direction would tend to turn the boat sideways. BUT, both engines turn in the same direction, however the reversion is done in the stern drive unit. <BR>Jyrki

[Guest]

Having read this,I am ready to write a thesis.By the way,could I claim a few college credits for completely going through all this information?