96 Park Avenue Ultra

[90 convertible]

Saturday, turned the car on to warm up and went back inside. Came out 20 minutes later, loud rattle under hood. Sounds like a peice of sheet metal was loose. Shifted to reverse, and backed-up. BIG cloud of what looked like white smoke. (It was dark out - could've been light blue). Drove home, smoke occasionally after traffic light stop. Also, slight slip in transmission when first stepping on the gas. My wife drove it yesterday (Monday) and told me it stalled on her!!

Is it time for a dealer visit or what?!

[NTX5467]

Might be an intake manifold/coolant leak situation. There is a service bulletin out for that situation, but not sure if it applies to your vehicle (usually not for supercharged V-6s) . . . so you'd better get with a dealer's service department to see what's going on.

Clanging and banging might be a lower pulley/harmonic balancer situation. On the backside of the pulley, there's a balance weight that's mounted in rubber. When the rubber deteriorates, the weight will swing freely (as it's mounted on a ball bearing!) within a particular range of motion (a few inches). Not a hard fix per se, but needs to be fixed with a new part.

Might even be a spring loaded drive belt tensioner or a non-adjustable idler pulley, but those would possibly only address the noise issues.

BY THE WAY, you probably need to get the supercharger oil changed/serviced. That might also be a reason for the noise and/or driveability issues. All GM sells is a new supercharger unit, but if you go into some of the front wheel drive Regal or Grand Prix websites, they might have some links to vendors for reman units.

In any event, it's probably time to see a Buick dealer for a diagnosis of what's going on.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[90 convertible]

Just got a call from DIFEO BUICK in JERSEY CITY, NJ - They're horrible people there.

I dropped my car off on Monday, they just called today (Friday) to ask me about the problem!! They never looked at it all week. yeah, there was a holiday this week, but that was only 1 of 5 days. Now they tell me the rattle is an internal problem in the supercharger, cannot buy it new anymore, so it's $1,800 for a rebuild. The smoke was because the oil was overfilled by 2 1/2 quarts?!?

Anyone interested, I have an oil making car!!! NOONE HAS TOUCHED MY OIL since September.

I'm waiting for the tow truck to arrive, I'm getting it out of DIFEO and bringing it to DeMassi. I know I won't get screwed there.

I'll let you know what the REAL problem is after I get a REAL mechanic to look at it!

Stay away from DIFEO if you live in New Jersey!!!!

[Puka]

Yeah, please keep us up to date on this one. I am actually interested in one of these late-model Buicks, and I always like to hear stories about service garages. I've been pretty much luck so far with the 51 Buick, but that's mostly I think because of the people who've helped me on this board!

[NTX5467]

With all due respect, why take it to a place you didn't like to start with? Also, considering the number of "emergency" repairs that always seem to appear at dealership service departments prior to major holidays, it's highly possible, regardless of what you might have been told up front (as some service advisors might not be fully aware of technician work schedules or write the ticket and let the dispatcher worry about the rest), that they were that busy OR the technicians in the specialization area your repair was in had already gone on THEIR vacations too. Lots of side issues that might not be readily apparent.

So, now you're going to be out another tow bill plus a check-out fee to get the car from one place to another, only to pay for another check-out fee as the second tech will want to verify the diagnosis before he makes an estimate for repairs. And get into another check-out/estimate/approval/repair cycle at another place. It IS your money and time, which I understand and I also recognize that we should be doing business with those we feel comfortable doing business with.

Whether GM supplies a new or reman supercharger unit, a complete bolt-on assembly instead of the aftermarket nose-cone pieces the Pontiac Grand Prix people know about, it will still carry the same GM Parts Warranty as other GM parts do. Yes, they are somewhat expensive, but then again it's a complete unit that's ready to install without any particularly special tools.

I don't suspect they might have mentioned if the "extra oil" came from fuel dilution or anti-freeze dilution? In that case, figure in an oil and oil filter change too. You can tell if that's what it is by smelling the dipstick when you pull it out--you'll smell gasoline and the oil should appear much more watery than normal and coolant will make it appear milky instead of "oil". Might be that one thing led to another?

I regret that you have the feelings you do toward the one dealership. If they are as bad as you claim, GM probably is aware of that via their own service/sales survey processes and could well be addressing those issues at the present time. I'm also aware that a dealership's best assets are their employees that interact with the customers and ultimately determine customer satisfaction ratings. Of course, you can also make your feelings known to the GM operatives in several manners, provided they haven't already read your post.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[90 convertible]

I had the car towed to DeMassi Buick at around noon on Friday. My phone rang around 9am this morning (Monday) to inform me my car WAS DONE!

Problem: Transmission module full of fluid. Replaced module and replenished trans fluid. Did oil/filter/lube too. Total cost $263.91 plus $175 for tow. A lot easier to swallow than the approx. 2 grand from the 1st dealer, which wouldn't have solved my problem anyway. No mention of any EXTRA oil in the car - diluted or otherwise. She's purring puurfectly again.

NTX5467 I went to the first dealer because they are only 5 miles away, I thought I would give them another chance, things are supposed to get better over time - wrong. The other dealership is about 50 miles away. Next time I'll pay the extra in gas (or towing costs)

Checkout fee!! - I dared them!

Regarding schedules at the DIFEO dealership - should this really become my problem? Shouldn't the front line have a schedule available?

I purposely called before I left the house because I know it was a holiday week, they told me no problem just bring it on in.

Happy Motoring

Jack

[Guest]

Jack,

Was reading about you buick,had same type of experience with dealer for my 95 Aurora. One dealer I had just do a general check told me the car needed everything but new valve stems, took it to another and they proceedes to tell me that the car needed nothing! Just reccomended front brakes and rotors,an oil change and a battery cover. There should be a way in not getting screwed by these guys. You would think that GM would step it and try to stop this kind of armed robbery buy SOME of these dealers. I do almost all the work on my cars and would like to not have to! I would rather just work on the old ones!

[NTX5467]

I'm glad things worked out well for you.

At the dealership side of things, sometimes it can appear that technicians are being a little too opportunistic in writing repair estimates. But there can be a reasonable explanation if you consider what it's like on the tech's side of things.

For example, if a tech writes an estimate they probably should look at other things on the vehicle that might need attention before they cause problems, just as the prior service station operatives did in prior times (especially the ones we trusted and relied upon for such information). Sure, it can make for a seemingly excessive list, but if the dealership tech notes these things on paper, then should the particular item fail in the near future, there is a record of the possible problem area needing attention and the fact that repairs were declined. That does two things--it documents the situation at the dealership level should the customer come back and want it repaired for free (after all, the technician "touched it") even though they declined the prior repair for whatever reason. Second, it prevents a situation where the technician does not note the possible failure and when the customer takes the vehicle to a private repair facility, if during the course of the conversation with that facility's operatives the fact that it was recently in a dealership, those operatives make the comment "They should have seen that getting ready to happen as they are supposed to know those cars better than anyone else, but I see it and would have recommended taking care of it for you". A couple of considerations there that might not be readily apparent. A "no win" situation in some respects, but hopefully all diagnosis are accurate in the process too.

Are some techs more into that than others? Sure, but it's not specifically a dealership situation either. Somewhere, in the mix of only looking at what's on the repair order for an estimate or also looking for other items that might need attention, I would hope there's a happy medium as it takes the tech's time to write that extensive estimate in the first place and the parts person's and service advisor's time in following through on the situation. Of course, the customer has the opportunity to decline anything they don't want done. Colateral situations to the original issue can develope in some cases too.

Technician work schedules really should not be a concern of the customer, but some service advisors might be more interested in writing tickets than if the work really gets processed in a reasonable amount of time. In a best case scenario, the dispatcher and/or shop foreman and/or service manager should advise the service writers of those situations and also put a halt to major work that comes in prior to a holiday so that few jobs are held over due to employee vacations or similar. But, everyone tends to be under pressure to produce "numbers" during a traditionally slow time of the year, so that can complicate matters too. It is unfortunate that it took that long for the first dealership to get back with you on their estimate and that their diagnosis appears to have been inaccurate.

I am glad you did get the situation taken care of and that it was at a lesser price. I am also disappointed that it was a missed diagnosis, though, as that doesn't make anyone look good. I might also recommend that you check the maintenance schedule for your vehicle with respect to changing the supercharger oil. Many are unaware of this possible situation or trade the vehicle before the mileage specification for that change (the first year of production of the Park Avenue Ultras with the supercharger did not have provisions to change the oil, but the later ones do).

Thanks for the update and glad things worked out ok,

NTX5467