1956 generator/alternator swap

[Guest imported_NikeAjax]

I want to put an alternator in my '56 Century, is there one that is recommended, and easier than others to put in? What can be done about the charging gauge; can I do something to it to make it read the way it should, like a resister or a capacitor in the line or do I just replace it and make the new one look old?

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

I've got a brand new alternator and starter relay that I took off my 54 Roadmaster when I converted back to a generator. It's yours if you want it, just pay shipping. It fits the mounting bracket on the engine perfect with a long bolt included. You realize you'll have some rewiring to do to keep from loosing the "press accelerator to start" feature since you'll be going AC vs DC.I have instructions of how to do that rewiring too and will send along with.

My guage worked fine when it was hooked to the alternator.

Lemme know

[Guest imported_56BuickSuper]

I?m not sure I understand this completely. I converted my ?56 to an alternator three years ago and all I did was make new brackets to mount a GM one-wire alternator, moved one wire on the regulator from the alternator lead to the lead from the battery and everything worked as before. The AMP meter works, the starter switch on the carb works. I never replaced the starter relay or anything other than the generator. Am I missing something here? Over 14,000 miles since then, and no electrical problems to date.

Dan

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Yo Dan,

My Roadmaster had already been converted from gen to alt and had a push button starter when I bought it. So I just rewired everything back to original. Why the previous owner had a new round starter relay, I don't know. The "new" alternator and relay took away from the aesthetics of the otherwise original engine compartment so it had to go. I can live with lights dimming a little at red lights, in fact that to me is another part of the nostalgia of these babes. This is not a daily driver, though I drive it most every weekend and to and from shows and events. Were it a daily driver I would have had more appreciation for his conversion and left everthing as was except the push gas to start. THAT is too cool to do away with.

The info I referenced can be found at www.rowand.net/Shop/Tech/PushGasToStartWithAlternator.htm

Sounds like your way is a lot simpler.

Hey Jaybird,

Got your email. Glad to help. If you'll email me your address , I'll try and get it packed and off to you this weekend and let you know what the shipping cost was. You may or may not need the starter relay as Dan pointed out.

[Guest imported_NikeAjax]

Okay, now that I've got my alternator in, what wires go where; I've got three wires that went to the generator, the big fat white wire, a yellow, and a pink. The afore mentioned moving a wire on the regulator is confusing me a bit, what goes where, help!

Thanks,

Jaybird

[Guest imported_56BuickSuper]

If memory serves. I did not use the pink or yellow wire, just left them disconnected. One end of the "Big fat white wire" connected to the alternator terminal. The other end terminated on the inside post of the regulator. There is another terminal on the regulator that connects to the battery. I just moved the "big fat white wire" to that terminal with the battery wire.

Dan

[Guest imported_NikeAjax]

Okay, I really f**ked-up here: I moved the wire that went to the post marked ARM, to the one that said, BAT. The car wouldn't start, so I put the pink wire onto the same post as the battery wire on the alternator, since it was there yesterday when the car was running, albeit draining the battery; the pink wire started to melt and smoke, not unlike a slug with salt poured on it! Can someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong here and how to fix this problem. Should the wires be clustered together all on the same regulator post? It seems as if the carburetor vacuum-switch on the starter isn't getting the power it needs since it's no longer connected to anything, no?

[Guest imported_56BuickSuper]

OK, your not too far off. The white and red got to the terminal marked battery. The pink wire went to the generator field terminal and the yellow wires went to the ground on the generator, you no longer need these. There is a light green wire that was on the GEN terminal with the white wire. This is the wire that sends power to the strarter relay. You can put this one on the BAT terminal but it would be better to add this to a terminal that gets power when the key is turned to on.

I don't why the pink wire melted if it was disconnected from the generator on one end and connected to the BAT terminal, it should be an open circuit.

I will try to send you a copy of the wiring diagram.

Dan

http://home.centurytel.net/dand/wiring.doc

Could not attach it as a doc. file. Try this link

[Guest imported_NikeAjax]

First of all, thanks for the help Dan!

I got the car to start by, for lack of a better word, hot-wiring it. The vacuum-switch isn't working anymore, or perhaps it is, but maybe the wires aren't; if I ground the pink wire, say, to the carburetor studs, the car will start. On the other hand, if I jumper the two wires together, those being the pink and yellow, nothing happens. As far as I know, that's what this vacuum-switch is supposed to do, that is momentarily create a circuit and kick the starter over. I'm thinking the wires are lacking something, since they don't do anything after I messed with the original configuration.

According to the ampmeter on the dash, I'm not getting any power from the new alternator; it indicates a drain on the system when I turn on the lights too. What should I do to test the charging system with a hand-held voltmeter to see if it is doing any real charging?

[Guest imported_56BuickSuper]

Did you get a copy of the wiring diagram from the link I posted? I think we are talking about two different pink wires. The starter relay has a pink wire that runs to the carb switch so you may be on the right track. As far as testing the alternator, I have to take mine to the auto shpo when I need to test one. I think if you disconnect the NEG battery terminal the car will quit if not charging, but will continue to run if it is charging but I am not sure of this.

I am trying to attach a pic of the starter relay wiring. If I get a chance this weekend I will look at mine again and let you know what I find. I am sure this is something simple beeing overlooked, do not dispair, you will get it sooner or later.

Dan

[Guest imported_bjr]

An easy way to check if an alternator is charging with the engine running, is to touch a metal screwdriver to the center back bearing of the alternator. If it is charging the screwdriver will stick as the back of the alternator will be magnatized. If it doesn't stick the alternator is not charging. Brian

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Jaybird, I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with that alternator. Like I said in a previous post, my 54 had been rewired with a push button starter. The guage idicated the alternator worked well though and my battery never discharged. Here is a link to a sight that may be some help but also may just confuse the issue more. www.rowand.net/Shop/Tech/PushGasToStartWithAlternator.htm

Wish I could help.

BTW I like your Flamingo.

[Guest imported_NikeAjax]

Thanks for the link Hoss, I'll check it out. I was starting to feel like Blinky, the stress monkey (just made that one up) 'cause this is my everyday driver, and felt helpless to this situation. I've been having to drive a '64 Mustang, this shouldn't happen to a dog, because the headlights on my Rambler just don't want to work right now: friends don't let friends drive Fords, or Chevys for that matter!

Thanks folks!

[JohnD1956]

This is an interesting problem. Looking at the wiring diagram offered, there are three terminals on the stock voltage regulator. One goes to the field terminal on the generator. The center one has two wires, one going to the Armature terminal on the generator, the other going to the solinoid relay. Chances are the one going to the armature on the generator is the big fat white one. The last terminal is the battery terminal.

I think Dan indicated he used the fat white wire from the generator to connect to the Alternator. Then at the regulator, he moved the white wire to the battery terminal. No other wires, just the one white one. I'm no electrician but it would seem if you moved BOTH wires which were on the regulator's center terminal to the regulator's battery terminal, then you are sending power to the solenoid relay at all times. The solenoid relay is the link to the carburator starter switch. And this would be the "electrical" protector to prevent the starter from engaging if the engine is running. If you did move the solenoid's wire to the battery terminal on the regulator then you have powered the solenoid full time. It thinks the generator is putting out electricity, and won't let the starter switch work.

The field wire can be disconnected at both the regulator and the generator, as this one would no longer be needed. But the solinoid's wire must go back to the center terminal on the regulator for the rest of the system to be intact. That third wire at the generator is most likely a ground wire. This can also be left disconnected. Since you lumped everything together, you were probably sending full battery power directly to ground along with the solenoid relay. That's probably why the pink wire started to smoke.

As I said, I'm no electrician, so follow at your own risk. But look at that diagram closely. It is exactly like the one in my 56 shop manual. I'd check that wire that melted though before going much further. Hopefully it did not melt through any other wires such that it is now an open short circuit.

Good luck.

[Guest imported_NikeAjax]

Okay, I'm looking at the electrical diagram as I'm writing this:

There is a "starter relay", is this the same as a "starter solenoid"? I'm guessing it is, but I just want to have a feeling of agreement, right? So the green wire, that was originally on the center post of the regulator, should go back where GM had intended it to be, this being the one going to the starter relay. Perhaps this is why the car won't start the way it did; is there still going to be the same power to this wire by itself? If I leave the posts on the alternator that go to a "solenoid" disconnected, will this affect the charging ability? Do I need to re-polarize the regulator if I put a different one in? SIGH!

Thanks for all the help.

[JohnD1956]

I would say that you should definetly re polarize your voltage regulator. Since I think you said you hooked up all three wires at the generator to the bat terminal, I would not trust that the voltage regulator is properly polarized any longer.

Once you re polarize, then following Dan's lead, move the white wire to the battery terminal. On my car, the wire on the battery terminal of the regulator is red. Put only the white wire there. Leave the green wire on the center terminal of the regulator and the pink wire on the last terminal.

At the generator, leave the yellow wire and the pink wire disconnected, and hook the white wire to the lead off your new alternator.

If Dan is right, then this should work. But I do have to say I'm not an electrical expert. And look over that pink wire that smoked on you to make sure the insulation is intact.

Good luck

John d