Like to get an opinion on what it's worth - '65 442

[Guest]

Hey everyone. As I posted below, I'm going to start a restoration on an original 1965 Olds 442. This is my dad's car - it's been in our family since he took it off the lot in 1965 so it's a 1 owner car. It was a dealer special-order showroom car that was hit in the late 80's and has been sitting ever since.

As I start to think about the restoration and budget, I'm wondering what the car might be worth when I'm done. I've seen some nice automatic cars go in the $20K range, but never one optioned like this. Assuming that I do a good job on the resto, can anyone give me an opinion here?

This is what I know about the car:

1965 Olds 442 Holiday Coupe

Targe Red/White interior

Muncie 4-spd with center console and tach (it MAY be an M21)

Original 400 engine with an 850 Holley (he has the original carb in a box)

Dealer installed 4:11 posi rear end

Power drum brakes

Chrome wheel option

Original miles unknown, but the engine was never rebuilt

What do you guys think?

Thanks!

[Guest]

Anyone? Thoughts? I see people looking at the post - there must be an opinion? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

Well, once again I venture into the fray, <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />. The car sounds like a very special item, to be sure. I would say though, that after having restored and purchasing a few in my time, that with the damage you have mentioned, it would not be worth as much as one that has never been hit, regardless of the options or your restoration expense. I read your original post a while back, and as I recall, this car was hit by a school bus in the rear. I can only guess at the damage, but depending on what the rear bumper looks like, and how high it was hit, hopefully you don't have any frame damage. The value of your car would always subtantially less than anything undamaged and original. And if the rear bumper is caved in, I suspect that you would have some frame damage as well. Many cars such as yours have ended up as parts donors for that very reason, regardless of sentimental value, it was still a totalled car. If you were to replace the whole rear clip, which I'm sure it would need, there would be obvious non-factory welding underneath the car and around the doors. I would speculate that if it's sentimental value that you desire, and a rare 442, I'd go for it, but if it's for profit, you'd be better getting another car to restore. The ones selling for $20k have never been hit like that, and regardless of options, an undamaged original car, no matter the brand, would always be the better investment. The higher the price, the sharper the eyes. If you had a more thorough description of the obvious damage, that would be a greater help. Sorry to burst your bubble, I'm just letting you know the realities of the marketplace for a serious collector.

[Guest]

Thanks very much for your feedback!

Don't worry - no bubble bursted at all! I'm looking for honest feedback.

Your point about the undamaged car is interesting. So, I guess I should revise my question accordingly - I'm really trying to get a sense of HOW rare these options are - and if the rarity of these original options would offset the issue of damage. I'm not looking to even sell the car - I just don't want to put $20K into a resto that's only worth $10K when I'm done.

I'm going to *try* and attach a picture of the damage so see below. But to answer a couple questions and expand:

1. The sentimental value is obvioulsy a big issue. This is sort of a monumental family event and I'm excited about the project as I can do quite a bit of the work myself.

2. I'm not doing this for profit. I'm just hoping that if I put, say, $20K into the restoration - that the end prodcut would be worth it. Also keep in mind that the car is free, so any $$ are just for the resto. Side story to illustrate my point: I just restored a 1965 Ford Mustang coupe. Beautiful car, needed a lot of work and it's almost perfect now, and it cost me about $10K to do it. Thing is, it's a 6-cyl car with sentimental value. Now that I'm done the car is worth about $7-$8K. If it was a V8 equiped car, it would be worth $15K + easy.

3. No frame damage for sure. The car was checked out after the accident and there was no problem with the frame. A good frame was on my list of "must-haves" for starting this project.

4. I have all original and NOS parts to do the body. Fortunately, my Dad got all the parts back in the 80's to fix the car and they've just been sitting. He not only has the rear clip - he has 1/4 of a CAR that he had cut away. Includes all the original 442 emblems and chrome, 1/2 of the trunk and floor pan all the way to the door.

So, there you have it. Any and all opinions welcome! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest Dave Wyatt]

What the car is worth can only be established by what somone is willing to pay for it after it is finished. The minor damage in the picture should not be that big of a deal as I am sure there are a few running around that have had similar repairs due to rust. I was expecting to see the back half of the car wadded up like an accordian. In all respects, the damage is somewhat minimal for being rear ended by a bus of any type.

I would go out on a limb and imagine that whatever you spend on quality repairs, you may not recoup in a sale unless you do all of the work yourself and have good experience.

Why don't you just repair the car and keep it. If it has as much sentimantal value as you mention, the value to you should be far above any cash value. Besides, a 65 4-4-2 is a ton of fun and great example of a true musclecar.

[Guest]

It sure sounds like you have an excellent project car there. What a break to have all the parts that you have! After what you've told me, and doing collision repairs on european unibodies of my own, I'd be real interested in seeing some pics. A seperate structure is typically much more forgiving in a wreck like that. Since the frame isn't damaged, as far as you know, You are a lucky man indeed. They can be straightened, but between the marks left from the pullers and the inherent waviness of pulled wrinkles on a fram channel, you are much more fortunate that I'd originally thought. Bearing that in mind, let me ask you a few more questions. After the inpact, did the rear window come out? Have you removed the rear seats and carpet to look for any metal distortion? Are the rear seat side panels bowed out? The reason that I ask, is that since the body is mounted on a frame, the body may have absorbed most of the impact, and 'accordionned' in a line of the impact. If it was a square hit in the rear, the body is probably not tweaked. If that's the case, you might be able to get by without replacing much more than both quarters and rear valance and trunk lid. With an expert bodyman, it's possible to drill out the spot weld dots and remove the assembly at the actual body seams, therefore making the repair much more difficult to detect. A drill for that is available at the Eastwood company, a great place for body and restoration tools of all kinds. With the extra partial body that you currently have, you virtually could make a show car quality rebuild. The body shop would need a spot welder with extension jaws for the right look in the visible areas, though. With the trunk paint that would have been in there (splatter?), all people would see is the new paint, and with a restoration, that's pretty typical anyway. It appears that your biggest expense will be a proper paint job and the body panel replacement. I'd venture to gess that a proper paing job would be about $4,000 and the labor for the repair about $3,000. At least that's what I'd charge,lol <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> those are my thoughts, and I'm stickin' to em' <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

Allow me the opportunity to corect myself after seeing that picture. You only really need a quarter panel, trunk lid and hinges and the rear valance and a bumper with the brackets and such, and you already have all the parts, expense #1. Wow are you lucky! I'd revise my labor quote to $1,000 tops! I think you can have an excellent car for $5,000 and with a little more with the options and some plating, maybe a points car. I'd say that you could easily double your money without a problem, so money well spent. In my humble opinion <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[rocketraider]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1965 Olds 442 Holiday Coupe

Targe Red/White interior

Muncie 4-spd with center console and tach (it MAY be an M21)

Original 400 engine with an 850 Holley (he has the original carb in a box)

Dealer installed 4:11 posi rear end

Power drum brakes

Chrome wheel option

Original miles unknown, but the engine was never rebuilt

What do you guys think?

Thanks! </div></div>

If it's the chrome wheel option I'm thinking of, it's pretty rare. Is it like a Magnum 500/Super Stock I or is it the <span style="font-weight: bold">chrome reverse type?</span>

You've got the perfect 65 car- red/white/4-speed, and all of the hard to find stuff. I say go for it, and then post us some pics.

[Guest]

Once again, thanks everyone for the input. I just want to re-iterate that I'm not doing this for a profit or to sell the car. I just don't want to dump money into something that I could never recover. If I break-even on the value of the restoration then I would be very happy. And, I'm just trying to guage the value of something like this.

<span style="font-weight: bold">MasterWrench</span> - It looks like you've seen the pics of the accident. I've put a bunch more pictures of the car on my website http://www.albertpenello.com/442 if you're interested in looking. I won't be inspecting the car myself until this weekend but I'm under the impression that the damage is localized to the part in the picture. The trunk popped open, so there is no damage to the trunk lid. Also, the rear window did not come out.

My dad also got a new bumper, that is since getting pitted but it's straight so it only has to be re-chromed. You can see it sitting in the trunk in one of the pictures.

<span style="font-weight: bold">rocketraider</span> I believe that it is the 'reverse type' - basically they look very similar to standard steel wheels only in chrome. They don't look like the SS/Magnum. You may be able to catch a glimpse of them in the pictures above.

That's about all I know now. My dad has a friend who is a body/paint guy and they looked at the car on Sunday for rust. No rust on the floorpans or frame was visible, although there is quite a bit around the trunk floor where the damage is. That doesn't really bother me much as that area needs to be replaced.

Also it looks like I'll need a hood. I guess the rust on the hood is worse than I thought so any leads on a cutlass hood would be appreciated.

FYI here are pictures of the Mustang that I just restored. I think that I was pretty thorough on that resto and I plan on being moreso with this car. Those interested can look here http://www.albertpenello.com/mustang

Thanks again and keep the opinions coming! I'd love to have you view the images of the 442 and give me any thoughts!

[Guest imported_joecool72]

I have no idea what it would be worth, but I hope you keep it in the family! That's awesome you're getting your old man's 442! It's something special already! My SS is my first new car purchase and I'm hoping to pass it down to my kids one day. Automobiles are such a special part of our lives and so overlooked when thought of as family heirlooms. If you're got fond memories of your father and the car has special meaning, then by all means restore it and enjoy it! But I understand the reason for appraising it. Hopefully the cost won't be too much versus the ending value. Good luck either way!

[Guest]

If you'd like to sell it let me know. I'd love to have a project like that, I can do most of the work myself! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />