Tom M Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 The other day like I always do I use the external lever/arm that is on the fuel pump to fill the carburetor. Guess what the arm broke. <P>Since this happen I cannot get the carburetor filled with gas. Cranking the engine doesn't seem to pump the pump fast enough to fill the carburetor that is why I use the lever/arm.<P>I was thinking of installing an electric pump anyways so I wouldn't have to pump it manually but since this has happen I can't get the car to my garage.<P>Any suggestion on what I should do?<P>Thanks,<P>Tom Malas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Tom, if you're going to install an electric pump, it should be located as close to the gas tank as possible, It's also a good to put a filter & on-off switch on it. The way I have mine hooked up on my 1404 is, gas tank > new gas filter > electric fuel pump > and then it ties into the stock fuel line, also wire in a power switch so you can turn the pump on & off as needed. J.C. Whitney sells a bellows type pump in 6 volts for around $40. , it pushes around 5 to 7 psi and I've been running mine for about 3 years now. hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 It might be better to purchase a aftermarket replacement mechanical pump from someone like Arthur Gould ( if my memeory is correct) advertised in Hemmingsfor one. depending on how much a purist you are. My 31 has been running one of his pumps for 20 odd years without any grief to speak of. I am curious as to the actual condition of the rest of your machine since my original beast has been starting like clock work - this year being a bad fuel the exception- for all that time out of winter storage of six odd months. Be interested in exchanging notes with you on the other fiddly bits Packard seemed to have intigrated into their world of that time. <BR>ynorman@mb.sympatico.ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted June 14, 2002 Author Share Posted June 14, 2002 ynorman,<BR>If the car sits for more then a week the carburetor dries out. This is why I had to use the arm/lever. I do have an in-line glass fuel filter that I can see. When I crank the engine the pump doesn't seem to suck the fuel. I can see is air in the filter. But if I pump it by hand (before the arm broke) it would fill the glass filter and carburetor. Once I can get the carburetor filled the car wouild start and run with no problems.<P>I have been trying to get in touch with THE GREAT PLAINES PACKARD CLUB because they are selling a 6-V electric pump. But I have not heard back from them as of yet.<P>Tom Malas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted June 19, 2002 Author Share Posted June 19, 2002 Purchase a pump yesterday from a Local Parts Store my Stepfather used when he had his service station. I knew I could count on the good old Local Part Store. He also had it in stock.<P>The pump only has one lead on it?<P>How do I go about hooking up the pump to the electrical circuit since the car is positive ground?<P>Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 Tom, is the pump a bellows type pump? Most bellows pumps can be hooked up either Pos or Neg ground. The way I hooked mine up on my 36 Packard w/ 6 volt Pos ground, was on the key switch, the wire that goes to the coil, I tied a wire to it, ran it to an on/off switch and then to the pump, them I mounted the pump to the frame rail. If you can't mount to the frame, you and connect a wire to the body of the pump and hook that to the frame. Also I recommend that you located the pump as close too the tank as possible and put a gas filter between the tank and the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted June 19, 2002 Author Share Posted June 19, 2002 Jim-TN, Thanks. I wasn't sure where to get the power from. I did plan on putting in a toggle switch.<P>Not sure if it's a bellows pump. My brother is dropping it by tonight.<P>Yes, I will be mounting it on the frame rail close to the tank with a filter upstream of the pump.<P>Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted June 21, 2002 Author Share Posted June 21, 2002 The pump is a AC/Delco bellows pump.<P>Installed the pump today and all it does is suck/pump a little gas. The tank is 3/4 full, 27 miles since last fill-up. I took a piece of rubber gas hose and hooked it up to the line that goes back to the tank and blew into with my mouth (being careful not to suck up gas) and I can blow back very easily and I can hear it bubble in the tank.<P>Could it be that the pickup tube has a hole up high in it and just barely sucking gas? <P>Wonder if this was my problem all along?<P>Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Tom, that might be, to check to see if it's the pump and not the line, put a hose on the intake side of the pump and stick it in a gas can and see how it works, if it works, then your pickup tube may have some holes in it and will have to be replaced. Also, did you clamp the gas lines good? If there is a way for air to seep into the pickup side of the pump, it will. The pump I have is rated at 4-/12 to 7 psi, 32 gph flow, it's no "power house" as far as pumps go, but it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted June 22, 2002 Author Share Posted June 22, 2002 Jim-TN, A friend of mine said the same thing.<BR>It has been a busy day today was Umpiring Beep Baseball for the blind. I will keep you all posted on outcome of the problem.<P>Thanks<BR>Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted July 13, 2002 Author Share Posted July 13, 2002 Update. I finally had a chance yesterday to drop the gas tank and Guess what there was and small crack in the line where it bends out the top of the tank. I soldiered it up and so far so good. The mechanical pump works fine. I will keep the electric pump and install it if the mechanical one fails.<P>Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Tom, Good to hear that. All this talk about Fuel pumps and guest what, my electric pump went out last Sunday. We went on a 60 mile ride with about 15 other cars, stop for lunch, and when I went to start the Packard, almost crank the battery dead before she started. She runs fine with just the mechanical pump, but is a real bear to start if she's been sitting for a couple of days or when she's hot & the gas evaporates out of the carburetor. I found that the bellows had split, so I got a new pump and put it in today. If I was you, I would still put the electric pump in, just for a back up, you never know when you might need it. I'm going to rebuild my old one & keep it in the trunk for a spare, like I said, you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted July 15, 2002 Author Share Posted July 15, 2002 Well went for a ride with the wife (Sue) to the nephews soccer game on Saturday and guess what the mechanical pump failed. Sue and I had to walk home a few miles. Drove back with the other car took the electric pump (which I should have installed on Friday) and some tools. Removed in-line gas filter installed the electric pump and wired it straight to the battery. Car fired right up.<P>My brother came over Saturday evening and helped me install the electric pump onto the frame rail as close to the gas tank as we could. Put the fuel filter upstream of the pump ran new 5/16" copper tubing from electric pump to the mechanical pump (which I will pull apart someday and rebuild it). Wired the pump to a toggle switch, which I mounted under the dash.<P>Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 Let me repeat in here, what I told Tom by private E mail.<P>Modern cars are, and have been for some years, equipped with fuel injection. Modern cars have high pressure fuel pumps located INSIDE their gas tanks, so that the fuel is under PRESSUE thru-out the system. This has freed gasoline mfgs. to make fuels with MUCH higher vapor pressures then we had prior to the 1970's. The higher vapor pressure insures your car will start quickly even when "cold-soaked".<P>The old style way of getting fuel from the tank to the engine was thru SUCTION. This created a VACUUM. Up until around 1930, this was done with a VACUUM tank. Then the rubber diaphragm fuel pump came out, and remained pretty much unchanged until the "fuel injection" era. In either case, you have fuel under SUCTION from the tank to the fuel pump, where it is pressurized for the short distance up to the carbuerator.<P>(most people dont realize, that when you get "vapor lock" cooling off the PRESSURE side of the fuel line cant have any effect on what is going on between the gas tank and the fuel pump...THAT is where the fuel has turned to vapor..and thus cannot be sucked thru...! )<P>The problem is, today's fuels, given their higher Ried Vapor Pressure, are so much more susecptible to vapor lock. <P>I am surprised that traditional "mechanical-diaphragm-fuel pump cars run at all on hot days. Some do...many dont. Many are just on the verge of vapor locking.<P>Why BOTHER ! Accept the fact that the laws of physics and thermal dynamics really DO apply..even to YOUR favorite old car !<P>Just put a good "continious duty rated" electric fuel pump as LOW as you can get it...as CLOSE to the fuel tank as you can get it. Make sure it is a REGULATED type, (or buy a regulator and put it "in line", so that the pressure at your carb. is no more than around 5 lbs.).<P><BR>Pete Hartmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted July 15, 2002 Author Share Posted July 15, 2002 Pete, I should listen and installed the pump when I was under the car on friday. Thanks again for all your input. Guess we all learn the hard way. Hopefully my wife (Sue) will still go for rides???<P>Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Best way to get the wife to ride in the car...is the same as resolving any other dispute with a woman. Tell her you recognize old cars are not for her..and you DONT want to take her out in the car any more....... !<P>PFH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted July 16, 2002 Author Share Posted July 16, 2002 LOL. She said she will still go FOR RIDE. Well we wanted to start taking walks again aways. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted March 25, 2003 Author Share Posted March 25, 2003 Went to go start the car and all the electric pump did is rattle. It didn't pump any gas up the mechanical pump. The sight bowl is only half way full of gas (Probally left over from before I put it up). Crawled under car to take a look at the in-line glass filter it has gas in it.Question is could this pump be bad already? I just installed it last summer. The pump is an AC-DELCO #EF-11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 If that is a bellows type, it is possible it has malfunctoned if any alcohol or perhaps other type fuel additives have eaten the rubber seals and grommets up inside. I saw two like that a few years ago, i.e., the inside of the pump was just a bunch of rubbery mush. But then, too, it could just be something that got by and is plugging the line forward of the filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted March 25, 2003 Author Share Posted March 25, 2003 RO,It is the bellows type pump. I'm not sure if this pump comes apart. Will have to take a look at it this weekend.The fuel lines are new.Thanks,Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 The pump should be separable somewhere in the middle and that will expose the rubber grommets/seals inside. I heard about a new compact type, 6V in Studebaker Turning Wheels, AirTex Model #E8011 that was manufactured to replace the bellows type that new gasolines have caused problems with. But, I must say, I have used a bellows type on several cars now for 9-10 years an dno problems in this area, but gasoline/additives vary across the country. The #E8011 they say is about $92 vs. the last time I bought a bellows type a few years ago was $65 + shipping. Hope you find and cure the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 one additonal note: If not already, you might try tapping on the side of the pump to see if it will jar anything inot working. I have done that on one of my pumps and it started working. Will do ok for awhile but if sits long, I hav eto do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted March 25, 2003 Author Share Posted March 25, 2003 RO,I will try giving the pump a love tap (that is what we said when we gave something a tap at my stepfathers service station). If that doesn't work guess I will have to take it apart.Thanks,Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted March 28, 2003 Author Share Posted March 28, 2003 Okay here is a pump on ebay that my old ACDELCO pump look like Pump 1 Here a pump on ebay of the new pump Pump 2 This new pump has the same number as the old one. It seems ACDELCO was having alot of returns on the other pump.I pulled off the mechanical pump today and found that the c-clips that hold the rod for the lever that pumps the pump were missing. Luckly I pulled it off because the rod was about to fall out. Replace the c-clips, installed electric pump. Flipped the switch to turn on pump. Crank the starter a few times and she fired up. Turn off electric pump and it seems the mechanical pump is working fine. I didn't take it out for a spin because it still up and jake stands and also I need to clean out the engine. See other post Broken Valve Spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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