Chrysler's Floating Power question

[X-Frame]

This is a cross post of sorts but hoping others here may have the answer?

 

This involves Chrysler's Floating Power engine mount configuration first introduced in 1931 on their Plymouth PA and for the 1932 model year, on all of their cars.  With this new system, the frame had to be stiffened and they started the trend of using the X brace chassis.

 

One article coyly says that the frame as it was, could have withstood the stress but, made it sound like they proactively did the change anyway.  Of course, it was physically needed so, was it Albert Werdehoff who holds the patent, or someone else?

 

Also, does anyone know when they stopped with the original layout of having the mounts on a pod under the water pump and moved it to the side?  Or when they stopped using the term "floating power" for engine mounts?  I see on the Imperial site a vendor that lists side engine mounts up to 1966 as such.

 

Thanks!

Eric

Edited August 16, 2015 by X-Frame (see edit history)

[X-Frame]

I have done some investigating and it looks like the original configuration was being phased out in 1951 and completed by 1959.  Does that sound correct?

[GK1918]

I'm pretty sure thats correct but in the back of my mind, but I'm still seeing the same front mount on a new 59 Plymouth flat head six ?

I could be wrong but I see no side mounts on a flathead until the slant six came along.

good question sam

[X-Frame]

I'm pretty sure thats correct but in the back of my mind, but I'm still seeing the same front mount on a new 59 Plymouth flat head six ?

I could be wrong but I see no side mounts on a flathead until the slant six came along.

good question sam

 

I think we are on the same page.  When I say until 1959, guess I should say through 1959.  In 1960 Dodge trucks changed to the slant six.  One source says that  the Doge Power Wagons made for the military, still used the flat head engine through 1968.   It had the front-rear mounts but wonder if I should include it because that was not a civilian use vehicle?

Edited August 17, 2015 by X-Frame (see edit history)

[Guest carlnut50]

1956 was the last year Plymouth and Dodge cars used that exact configuration. The flathead six was used through 1959 but the mounts are different 57-59. Chrysler and Desoto 1954 because that was the last year for sixes, I believe. Trucks, I do not know.

[X-Frame]

Carlnut50...  I wonder if the new torsion suspension with new frame rails and layout, had anything to do with it?   I look at the 1957-1958 Plymouth Shop manual and the front photos that have of the various engines do indeed, show engine pad mounts rather than the old front legs design for the L-6 engine.  But, I am wondering now about trucks.  I am still seeking pictures or brochure illustrations but one for the 1958 Dodge Trucks shows the 315cid V8 still using the old floating power brackets while the other engines do not.  They said the 315 was used in their 600 series model.  And I did see where the 230 was still used in the Power Wagons through 1968 and the one I saw also had the old style floating power front bracket.

 

In the true Chrysler Corp style, it seems there is no rhyme or reason staggering changes.  Just like Chrysler, DeSoto, and Dodge cars went from a standard X-braced frame on all models to a new perimiter type (except for convertibles) in 1941 but Plymouth did not change over until the 1942 model year.

 

Eric

Edited August 18, 2015 by X-Frame (see edit history)

[X-Frame]

I ran across a 1959 brochure for the Dodge 100 pickup and it shows the L-6 engine still has the old style front mount.  Looks the same for the 1960 which still used the 230 engine so, can I assume that the use thru 1968 is correct on trucks?

 

Not a very good picture but you can see the two legs in front.

Edited August 18, 2015 by X-Frame (see edit history)

[X-Frame]

It looks like I am having a one-way conversation here but hope someone will chime in with comments at least?

 

Here is what I call the "Cast of Characters" related to the introduction of the Floating Power technology.  I am hoping for input as to its accuracy, if possible.  There seems to have been some collective as well as micromanaged efforts involved.

 

Newton Field Hadley (1890-1970) - Plymouth Chief Design Engineer

 

The Three Muskateers of the engineering consultant firm Zeder-Skelton-Breer, turn Chrysler employees:

 

Fred Morrell Zeder (1886-1951) - Director of Engineering Activities

Owen Raymond Skelton (1886-1969) - Executive Engineer

Carl Breer (1883-1970) - Research Director

 

Roger Kenneth Lee (1898-1957) - Chief Research Engineer (patent holder for the Floating Power design)

 

Albert Bernhard Werdehoff (1887-1969) - Chassis Engineer (patent holder for new X-brace frame required for torque stability)

 

Thomas Levi Fawick (1889-1978) - Supplied Vulcanized Bushings (Fawick Airflex Corp. - now Eaton Corp.)

 

As for the new frame, I see that a contract was awarded to Midland "in" 1932 but the new design was in place by the end of 1931 so, who built the frames for assembly?  Did Chrysler do their own or did Midland and later received a contract?

 

1931-1932 Frame Supplier ________ ?  Still Need  Info

 

1933  Midland Steel

 

1934  Midland Steel and A.O. Smith 

 

 

THANKS!!!!

Eric

Edited August 19, 2015 by X-Frame (see edit history)