322 V-8 Oil Consumption

[Guest scott mich bca # 6619]

Can anybody tell me why my rebuilt engine<BR>(3000 Miles) uses so much oil? It appears to<BR>be coming out the oil draft tube. I drove approx 900 to the Nationals from IL easch way. On the way it used 2 qts, on the way back 3.<P>Scott<P>------------------<BR>

[Guest]

Scott,<BR> Usually a newly re-built or new engine will burn or use oil for the first couple thousand miles as the new oil & compression RINGS must seat themselves into the newly honed cylinder walls, however, if this persists it could be a damaged valve seal allowing the oil to escape that way. Either way take it back to the garage that performed the work for an evaluation. It should be covered under a warrenty of some sort. John Lyman BCA Advisor, Automotive Instructor

[Guest]

Scott<BR>With that much oil consumption you should be seeing smoke from the tail pipe, major leaks when parked and/or oil coating the underside. I don't see how a significant amount of oil can be lost from the draft tube, unless.... I can't remember if your car has the early engine with the oil filler in the center cover or the later engine with oil fillers on the valve covers. On the early engines there is an aluminum mesh inside the center cover that is destroyed by some cleaning methods...this mesh serves as a baffle to drain back an oil before it gets to the draft tube. If the car has tail pipe smoke I would suspect the valve guides...mine smoked like a chimney due to original guides (with no seals) and some rebuilt rocker assemblies that splashed much more oil than original rockers. I ended up putting on valve guide seals while the heads were off for other problems. Mine had 1000 miles on it when I took off for the nationals and used one quart in 3500 miles which is typical for a 322. Also I use 20W50 oil...if you used 5W30, higher oil consumption would be expected.<P>Willie

[gearhead]

Hmmm!!?? I wonder if they got the piston rings upside down. Shouldn't happen with OEM rings, but some of the aftermarket rings use their own convention on which side they put the dimple to show up versus down. If these are installed wrong, they sure can pump oil!

[Guest scott mich bca # 6619]

Old Tank:<BR> I used 10w 30 oil. I have the single oil filler tube without the oil caps on the valve covers. I do not think that I am smoking out the tailpipe as Roy, the person following me to/from the National would have told me. I do get a bit of leakage on the garage floor.<BR>It seams to occur from the rear main seal and the draft tube.<BR> Here's the catch: The entire underside of the car is coated with oil as if it was sprayed on as undercoating!!!<BR> I also did clean the valley cover by soaking it in a 5 gal bucket with gas until it came out clean when I rebuilt the engine.<BR> Maybe theses clues will help.<BR>Thanks<BR>Scott<BR><P>------------------<BR>

[Guest]

Scott<BR>Sounds like your problem is a seak at the rear main seal....your valley cover should be OK since it was not soaked in a caustic tank as used at machine shops. Also the oil leak from a rear main seal is thrown to the passenger side of the car wher the draft tube is. I had a leak on mine just as bad and changed the rear main seal 3 times before I pulled the engine and found that the machine shop that ground the crankshaft ground it out of round which made the surface that the seals ride on eccentric... which is an oil PUMP!!<BR>Did you use a rope seal on the rear main or one of the available lip seals? The rope sealsusualy seal well new and then gradually leak with age and miles if installed correctely. The side seals on the rear main bearing cap can be a source of trouble also. This can be fixed but is a [censored]!!!<BR>Good luck<BR>Willie

[Dave@Moon]

This is the part of this forum that I love! There is information out there that we need from time to time that is only available in limited quantities, and without this forum it would be very hard to come by.<P>If this car has vaccuum wipers, I'll bet a random reproductive organ that I know what the problem is. The fuel pump is the culprit! When the diaphragm on the vaccuum booster portion of the fuel pump fails, that part of the pump starts pumping air <I> into </I> the crankcase. This pressurizes it and forces oil out of the system. The only place the oil has to go is out the road draft tube. <P>The oil loss will usually be <I> much </I> larger on highway trips due to the high rpm's and resultant air pumping rate. That's probably why this was noticed first in a long highway trip. If it is a rear main seal, there would probably have been visible dripping even during short trips. <P>I had a 1960 Falcon do this, and the syptoms fooled everyone I could find who knew anything about cars (and this was 18 years ago). It would blow a quart of oil out the road draft tube every 100-200 miles at 60 mph, but not a drop all day at 35 mph. My grandfather (then 70 and a lifelong career mechanic) immediately told me what my problem was. <P>Here's hoping it's your cheap, easy to replace fuel pump! Good luck! <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Dave@Moon (edited 07-16-2000).]

[Guest scott mich bca # 6619]

WOW!!! I'll bet both of you guys are right.<BR>Before the trip to the nats, it was leaking oil from the main seal, seeing it on the garage floor. When I arrived at the Nats., the fuel pump gave out, spewing gas out the top seal .<BR>(the vacuum side)!!! Well I changed the pump, but I'm still using oil. My mechanic wants me to put die in the oil before I change it.<BR>He'll look at it with the ultra voilet light to see EXACTLY where it is coming from.<BR> I think we are on to something here. I'll let you guys know,<P>Thanks Again,<P>Scott<P>------------------<BR>

[Guest]

Scott and Dave<BR>Usually when I have had a fuel pump vaccuum diaphragm fail oil is sucked out of the crankcase into the intake manifold. One way to check for an intact diaphragm is to see if the wipers work at all engine speeds. The dye test will tell if it is the rear main seal and/or the draft tube. I also think that if the crankcase is pressurized so much that it blows oil out the draft tube it would also come out the upper breather valve cover nuts fuel pump vents,etc<BR>Willie

[Dave@Moon]

OLD TANK, my grandfather told me that when the vaccuum booster goes bad on a car with a PCV valve instead of a road draft tube you wind up with oil in the intake. That's pretty much what the PCV valve did was send those vapors through the engine instead of venting them. <P>Glad we could help, Scott!

[Guest scott mich bca # 6619]

Good News and good news. It is a rear main seal leak. The other good news is it's under<BR>warranty. My mechanic is fixing it under warranty. He did not want to originaly use the rope seal I brought him. He insisted on using the "new" type seals. Oh well, he must not of got in just right. <BR> We used the dye in the oil to determine exactly where it came from. Thanks for all the help.<P>Scott<P>------------------<BR>

[Guest scott mich bca # 6619]

Well guess what? I had the rear main seal replaced and it is still leaking oil. After being driven and then parked it drains from the bell housing. If I clean up the garage floor and don't drive it, the leaks are gone.<BR> In other words, it looks as if it leaks while it is running, collects in the bell housing, and then drips down. Not driping all the time.<BR> Any suggestions?<BR>Scott

[Guest]

Scott<BR>It looks like you still have a rear main seal leak...it only leaks while driving. These are really hard to fix in the car so your mechanic may have to pull the motor. Tell him to pay attention to the side seals which can be a source of massive leaks (see my post in answer to Don55 in the Performance section). I did have one I could not stop the leak on until I found that the crankshaft was ground out of round which made the sealing surface an oil PUMP!<P>Willie

[Guest]

WOW!!! I agree with the fact many of us would be lost w/o this forum...THANK GOD for it!!! I told my Dad(whose helping me with my 322) He says he is a bit worried that pulling the cap off with the motor on a stand may screw up the bearing...I told him if it leaks in the car it will still have to come off as my interpretation of this problem is that if it leaks, it pours out...Also according to "the book"(...service man., to pull the pan in the car you have to pull apart the steering linkage...<BR> Take the car to your mechanic, print off(if possible) what we have said here and have him fix it RIGHT....Look at what has been said to my post on both the front seal as well as the rear seal...in the performance part of this page....<P> Willie, I would be lost without your insight...THANKS LOADS!!!<P> Drop me an E if ya wish @ dlw29@hotmail.com<BR> <BR> Let me know how things pan out...<P> don55

[Guest scott mich bca # 6619]

The mechanic said that he is sure the new main seal is in ok and not leaking. He belives that one of the three galley plugs at the rear of the engine block my be where the leak is from. (One of them is where the cam goes in.)<P> He offered to pull the trans and flywheel,<BR>clean up the mess and run the car on the lift<BR>and see exactly where it is coming from and fix it.<BR> <BR> What more can I ask for? I'll keep you uddated.<P>Scott

[Guest]

When "Nailhead"uses lots of oil,pull the rocker covers off and run the engine to see if a rocker shaft support is cracked and spewing oil, also on a 53-54 if you have a large fan blade.the radial discharge can hit the underside of the breather and pressurize the crankcase causing oil to come out the breather.Later 53s came out with a breather tube extension with a baffle. (A/C jobs)