1906 Buick starting problems

[DGPoff]

Just put the engine back in my 1906 Buick - 2 cylinder. I went back to the original Schebler carb and HERZ timer after the rebuild. Can't get the darn thing to fire consistantly. Valve timing and lash is OK. Visible fuel in the manifold. Seems to be a 5 degree difference between the 2 sides of the timer. Also, it seems like I am needing to buzz the coils 15 plus degrees before TDC to even get it to fire. Have yet to have it kick back. Suggestions?? Anyine know where I can get a new timer? I have a plan for a dual point timer but am not a machinist.<P>Don Poffenroth

[Guest]

I'm assuming your Hertz timer is roller operated or maybe a spring loaded carbon brush?<BR>Naturally you've established the 2 primary{low voltage} connections and the single secondary{high voltage spark} terminals per coil assuming the coil box is original and has not been messed with.<BR>I like to remove the plugs, have them connected nearby and grounded so I can see and hear the spark while I slowly rotate the flywheel { marked so I can see when the piston is at TDC} and I listen for the tell-tale buzz. I always initially aim for TDC with the lever fully advanced, you can make your adjustments afterward when she's running.<BR>Also check the spring tension on the buzz coil points and their clearance, too much tension and she will not spark under compression, too little and the spark will be too weak, also aim for some free point play {on the coils again}of not more than .025 to start with and make certain that your primary is not shorting to the secondary in the coil box which can happen sometimes, hope some of this helps.<BR> Carleton

[DGPoff]

Carleton,<BR>If I understand you correctly, you initially time at TDC with the spark lever full advanced, which ,eans with the lever fully retarded you are way firing way before TDC. Correct. I'll give it a try and let you know what happens!<P>Ps - Thanks for the tip!

[Guest]

Yeah, It's done that way as a safety measure if you're not certain if the motor runs properly, this way you accomplish several things to wit, you make certain that the coils fire on tdc, you avoid the dreaded kickback which broke my wrist once and when the motor is running you can advance the timer 'til she knocks and then back off with the lever so that TDC is in the middle position of the lever more or less, thus allowing you to retard for starting and hunt around with the lever for the optimum position for running, 2 cyl cars like your Buick are very sensitive to small variations in timing, as are cross-engined 4 cyl,Franklins or any slow-revving motor with buzz coil ignition combined with the crude-minimal mixture variation afforded by a Schebler.

[caf]

Don: Had problems with one of my cars in starting after a rebuild. The only way it would fire was if I flooded the devil out of it. What it turned out to be was the valve port plugs and retaing rings were not tight enough and it would suck too much air in causing a very lean mixture. I had to tighten them many times until they finally sealed. It will also cause backfiring when you are on compression going downhill. You might also check the manifold connections and the carb connection to the manifold. I've had pretty good luck with the schebler model D, just keep the air valve spring so the valve just barely seats. Too much spring pressure acts as a governor. Can't help much with ignition as I am not familiar with Buick timers. Hope this is some help,Chuck

[Guest]

I don’t know anything about Buicks this old but isn’t it so that if you initially time at TDC with the spark lever full advanced, means that with the lever fully retarded you are firing way AFTER TDC not before?<P>Vegard<BR>Norwegian BCA member

[DGPoff]

My Buick experts tell me that I should time 5-10 degrees before TDC for starting. The vibrating coil and timer system can be a little slow even at cranking speed. Then as the engine starts you move the spark lever which times even farther before TDC.<P>The latest update is that I'm preparing to check compression to be sure my valve cages are seated correctly. I had the machinist lap the cages into the head. I could have one in slightly crooked, giving me a leak and lean mixture, as was pointed out above!<P>Don<P>Ps - Still not happy with the whole buzz coil system. I'm using the original splitdorf coils, which I had rebuilt, but they seem very tempremental (and I don't have a spare). Thinking I might modify some T- coils to work. Also have some details about installing an electronic ignition off a Harley into the car to get rid of the ignition issue once and for all.