ENGINE IDENTITY, APPROX LATE 1920's,

[Guest HORNSBY-AKROYD]

HI ALL,

I HAVE A LATE 1920's GRAHAM BROTHERS TRUCK, WITH 140 INCH WHEELBASE, APPROX 2-TON CARRYING CAPACITY, FITTED WITH, A 6-CYLINDER ENGINE, WITH 6-VOLT NORTH EAST ELECTRICS, AND A STEWART/DODGE CARBY.

THE SERIAL NUMBER IS VERY CLEAR, STAMPED ON THE BLOCK, JUST UNDER THE EXHAUST MANIFIOLD AT THE FRONT OF THE ENGINE.

ENGINE NUMBER; M 124119.

I WOULD BE MOST GRATEFUL FOR ANY INFORMATION, ABOUT THIS ENGINE, SUCH AS , THE MAKE AND MODEL, YEAR OF MANUFACTURE, AND SPECIFICATIONS INCLUDING HORSE POWER, PRIOR TO UNDERTAKING A MECHANICAL RESTORATION.

ANY LEADS AS TO SUPPLIERS OF PARTS WOULD ALSO BE GREATLY APPRECIATED, AS WOULD ANY EXPERIENCE, GAINED WORKING ON A SIMILAR ENGINE.

REGARDS BILL in AUSTRALIA.

[stakeside]

HI ALL,

I HAVE A LATE 1920's GRAHAM BROTHERS TRUCK, WITH 140 INCH WHEELBASE, APPROX 2-TON CARRYING CAPACITY, FITTED WITH, A 6-CYLINDER ENGINE, WITH 6-VOLT NORTH EAST ELECTRICS, AND A STEWART/DODGE CARBY.

THE SERIAL NUMBER IS VERY CLEAR, STAMPED ON THE BLOCK, JUST UNDER THE EXHAUST MANIFIOLD AT THE FRONT OF THE ENGINE.

ENGINE NUMBER; M 124119.

I WOULD BE MOST GRATEFUL FOR ANY INFORMATION, ABOUT THIS ENGINE, SUCH AS , THE MAKE AND MODEL, YEAR OF MANUFACTURE, AND SPECIFICATIONS INCLUDING HORSE POWER, PRIOR TO UNDERTAKING A MECHANICAL RESTORATION.

ANY LEADS AS TO SUPPLIERS OF PARTS WOULD ALSO BE GREATLY APPRECIATED, AS WOULD ANY EXPERIENCE, GAINED WORKING ON A SIMILAR ENGINE.

REGARDS BILL in AUSTRALIA.

Is the generator 0n the right side of the engine (looking forward from the cab)? If so it is a victory 6 engine. SEE ATTACHED PICTURE Of VICTORY 6. Note the generator is on the other side of engine.

Is there a frame number located above front spring mount on the left side of the frame. what is it? It may be on the registration slip also.

You got some pictures to post?

[Guest HORNSBY-AKROYD]

HI STAKESIDE,

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR REPLY, YES THE GENERATOR, IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ENGINE, AND YES THERE IS A FRAME NUMBER 203491 ON THE CHASSIS LEFT FRONT SIDE BEHIND THE SPRING HANGER.

UNABLE TO TAKE PHOTO'S AT THE MOMENT BUT I INTEND TO POST THEM WHEN I AM ABLE TO TAKE THEM, ANY MORE INFORMATION IS GREATLY APPRECIATED.

CHEERS BILL in AUSTRALIA.

P.S. I PLACED MORE INFORMATION, IN THE GENERAL SECTION OF THE FORUM, AND WAS ADVISED TO GO TO THE DODGE AND DODGE BROTHERS SITE, WHAT A GREAT THING THIS FORUM IS !

[Guest 1930]

HI ALL,

I HAVE A LATE 1920's GRAHAM BROTHERS TRUCK, WITH 140 INCH WHEELBASE, APPROX 2-TON CARRYING CAPACITY, FITTED WITH, A 6-CYLINDER ENGINE, WITH 6-VOLT NORTH EAST ELECTRICS, AND A STEWART/DODGE CARBY.

THE SERIAL NUMBER IS VERY CLEAR, STAMPED ON THE BLOCK, JUST UNDER THE EXHAUST MANIFIOLD AT THE FRONT OF THE ENGINE.

ENGINE NUMBER; M 124119.

I WOULD BE MOST GRATEFUL FOR ANY INFORMATION, ABOUT THIS ENGINE, SUCH AS , THE MAKE AND MODEL, YEAR OF MANUFACTURE, AND SPECIFICATIONS INCLUDING HORSE POWER, PRIOR TO UNDERTAKING A MECHANICAL RESTORATION.

ANY LEADS AS TO SUPPLIERS OF PARTS WOULD ALSO BE GREATLY APPRECIATED, AS WOULD ANY EXPERIENCE, GAINED WORKING ON A SIMILAR ENGINE.

REGARDS BILL in AUSTRALIA.

Hello Bill, glad you made it, if it is a 140 W.B with a Victory engine as we are assuming from your response above than it would most likely be an E series 1 1/4 ton truck built by Dodge Brothers under the Graham nameplate.

If I remember right Victory engines started with the M so more likely than not you have the original engine which is a good thing. I or someone else can verify these numbers though to confirm no problem.

Year of manufacture would be 28/29 and I can get more specific probably with this. Just need to remember where I put that info, maybe someone can answer some of these questions quicker than I can.

Horsepower can also be answered I believe but again...........

Parts will be difficult to find in some cases, pictures of what you are working with and a list of what is needed would be most helpful.

[Guest HORNSBY-AKROYD]

HI JASON,

YOU CERTAINLY APPEAR TO BE A GREAT SOURCE OF VALUABLE INFORMATION, AND I GREATLY APPRECIATE THE TIME TAKEN TO ANSWER MY ENQUIRYS.

THE BARE TRUCK WEIGHS IN AT JUST UNDER 2 TONS, AND HAS A 11 FOOT FLAT TRAY, WITH SIDES, WITH THE SPRING SETUP, IT HAS TO BE CAPABLE OF AT LEAST 2 TONS CARRYING CAPACITY IF NOT 2.5 TONS, I KNOW THE 3 TON MODELS HAD 3 INCH WIDE SPRINGS, AND MINE ONLY HAS THE 2.5 INCH SPRINGS, THIS IS QUITE A BIG TRUCK, AND HAS PULLED A 4 TON , FOUR WHEEL TRAILER SINCE 1934, WHICH IS 14 FOOT LONG FLAT BED WITH SIDES, ALSO IN GOOD ORIGINAL CONDITION.

I DON'T REALLY REQUIRE ANY PARTS, AS IT'S RUNNING AND 100% ORIGINAL, I JUST THOUGHT I SHOULD BE ON THE LOOK OUT FOR TUNE UP COMPONENTS AND SPARES OF POSSIBLE WEAKNESSES SUCH AS THE STARTER MOTOR.

AS SOON AS I CAN I WILL POST PHOTO'S, BUT IT WILL BE A WHILE, IN THE MEAN TIME THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR INTEREST AND VALUABLE INFORMATION.

CHEERS BILL in AUSTRALIA.

[Guest 1930]

Hello Bill, given the wheel base there were weight specific weight classes given to these trucks, it may be the truck was equipped for heavier duty work but it was most likely originally intended to be a 1.5 ton truck this is of course assuming I have not forgotten anything that I have read which is entirely possible as I am still also learning about these early G.B D.B trucks

Look forward to the photos, thanks

[Guest 1930]

Bill asked me to post these photos for him and this is the text that went along with them.............CONSIDERING IT WILL BE MONTHS BEFORE I CAN POST PHOTO’S ON THE DODGE FORUM DUE MAINLY TO THE INACCESSIBILITY OF THE TRUCK TO PHOTOGRAPH , BUT I MANAGED TO FIND TWO OLD PHOTO’S TAKEN OVER 35 YEARS AGO, THE TRUCK HAS HAD A GREAT DEAL OF TIDYING UP SINCE THEN, AND LOOKS A LOT BETTER THAN IT DOES HERE.MAYBE YOU CAN UPLOAD THESE OLD PHOTO’S ON TO THE DODGE FORUM, AS I THINK THE PROCESS WILL BE A LITTLE TOO TECHNICAL FOR ME.THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP SO FAR, AND I AM GREATLY LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING MORE INFORMATION ABOUT MY TRUCK.

AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, VERY FEW GRAHAM BROTHERS TRUCKS ACTUALLY CAME TO AUSTRALIA, AND ONLY A HANDFUL HAVE SURRIVED, AND THOSE ARE MAINLY THE VERY POPULAR G-BOYS, AND AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THIS AND THE DISTANCE FROM THE BUILD COUNTRY ( U.S.A. ) , THERE ARE VERY FEW PEOPLE WHO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS MAKE AND LITTLE OR NO PRINTED INFORMATION IN EXISTANCE.

IT CERTAINLY IS A GRAND OLD TRUCK, AND BOTH IT AND IT’S TRAILER WILL BE KEPT IN THEIR ORIGINAL CONDITION, ( C ) CAB AND TRAY BODY BUILT IN AUSTRALIA, THIS CHASSIS / COWL WAS IMPORTED FROM DODGE.

BY THE WAY, GREAT FUN LOOKING UP THE FORUM EACH DAY, FOR NEWS ON THE TRUCK

KIND REGARDS BILL in AUSTRALIA.

Edited July 27, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Bill asked me to post these photos for him and this is the text that went along with them.............CONSIDERING IT WILL BE MONTHS BEFORE I CAN POST PHOTO’S ON THE DODGE FORUM DUE MAINLY TO THE INACCESSIBILITY OF THE TRUCK TO PHOTOGRAPH , BUT I MANAGED TO FIND TWO OLD PHOTO’S TAKEN OVER 35 YEARS AGO, THE TRUCK HAS HAD A GREAT DEAL OF TIDYING UP SINCE THEN, AND LOOKS A LOT BETTER THAN IT DOES HERE.MAYBE YOU CAN UPLOAD THESE OLD PHOTO’S ON TO THE DODGE FORUM, AS I THINK THE PROCESS WILL BE A LITTLE TOO TECHNICAL FOR ME.THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP SO FAR, AND I AM GREATLY LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING MORE INFORMATION ABOUT MY TRUCK.

AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, VERY FEW GRAHAM BROTHERS TRUCKS ACTUALLY CAME TO AUSTRALIA, AND ONLY A HANDFUL HAVE SURRIVED, AND THOSE ARE MAINLY THE VERY POPULAR G-BOYS, AND AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THIS AND THE DISTANCE FROM THE BUILD COUNTRY ( U.S.A. ) , THERE ARE VERY FEW PEOPLE WHO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS MAKE AND LITTLE OR NO PRINTED INFORMATION IN EXISTANCE.

IT CERTAINLY IS A GRAND OLD TRUCK, AND BOTH IT AND IT’S TRAILER WILL BE KEPT IN THEIR ORIGINAL CONDITION, ( C ) CAB AND TRAY BODY BUILT IN AUSTRALIA, THIS CHASSIS / COWL WAS IMPORTED FROM DODGE.

BY THE WAY, GREAT FUN LOOKING UP THE FORUM EACH DAY, FOR NEWS ON THE TRUCK

KIND REGARDS BILL in AUSTRALIA.

Very unique truck. Custom work was done on these chassis.

Here in the USA the frame numbers were preceeded with either "E", "D", or "S" depending where the truck was build. You do not have a letter prefix but your number fits in with the "D" sequence. Here is a table of the model types noted as Dodge.

[Guest 1930]

Very unique truck. Custom work was done on these chassis.

Here in the USA the frame numbers were preceeded with either "E", "D", or "S" depending where the truck was build. You do not have a letter prefix but your number fits in with the "D" sequence. Here is a table of the model types noted as Dodge.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]147519[/ATTACH]

Dont be confused by stakesides remarks, this can be confusing until you get a handle of it, just to clarify looking at the chart posted above ( thanks for taking the time to re-post that stakeside ) and with that serial number the truck could have been built between 1928 thru 1932 but closer to the 31-32. It was a most likely a Detroit built truck see comment below and it is an E series chassis.

Your serial number on the frame will be proceeded by a alphanumeric digit ( or it should anyway given the serial number you posted )

It was most likely shipped as chassis and cowl only ( cant remember the exact term this second ) and once it arrived there would of as you maybe have guesses had the custom body built to suit the needs of the customer

Edited July 27, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Bill asked if I though we would enjoy seeing one of his other cars and its a beuty. This is the story behind it...............

I AM ENCLOSING A RECENT PHOTOGRAPH OF MY DAUGHTER ISABELLA AND MY HUPMOBILE A-7 CABRIOLET WHICH I HAVE FULLY RESTORED OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS, THIS CAR WAS PURCHASED BRAND NEW BY MY GRANDMOTHER IN 1929, SHE STOPPED DRIVING IT IN 1957 DUE TO HAVING SUFFERED A HEART ATTACK, AND FOUND THE STEERING TO HEAVY , SO SHE GAVE IT TO ME, MY MOTHER GAINED HER DRIVING LICENCE IN THIS CAR AND WE HAVE MANY PHOTOGRAPHS OF IT TAKEN IN THE 1940’s AND LATER.

AFTER MY GRANDMOTHER GAVE THE CAR TO ME, I PUT IT UP ON BLOCKS UNDERCOVER, PRIOR TO COMENCING A TOTAL RESTORATION.

I SHOULD ADD THAT BOTH MY TRUCKS AND TRAILERS WILL HAVE ONLY MECHANICAL RESTORATIONS AND WILL BE KEPT IN THEIR ORIGINAL CONDITION.

Great job Bill, nice to have you here with us

[Guest HORNSBY-AKROYD]

HI ALL,

I HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, MY TRUCK APPEARS TO BE FITTED WITH THE VICTORY SIX ENGINE, THANKS TO YOUR HELP.

THE 1928 RANGE OF TRUCKS HAD TWO VARIATIONS OF FOUR SPEED GEARBOXES, THERE WAS THE HI-FLEX FOUR SPEED TRANSMISSION IN 1.25 TON TRUCKS, WHICH HAD TWO SILENT FAST SPEEDS - DIRECT DRIVE IN FOURTH AND SILENT INTERNAL GEAR DRIVE IN, THIRD, QUIET AND DURABLE, TO QUOTE ADVERTISING.

BUT MY TRUCK IS FITTED WITH THE HEAVY-DUTY FOUR-SPEED TRANSMISSION AS FITTED TO THE 1.75 TON AND 2.5 TON TRUCKS, TO PROVIDE THAT IRRESISTIBLE PULL OF THE LOW-LOW FOR HOLE OR HILL AND THE SPEED WHERE CONDITIONS PERMIT.

I LOOK FORWARD TO MORE INFORMATION COMING FROM MEMBERS TO HELP ME DISCOVER MORE ABOUT THIS LOVELY OLD TRUCK IN AUSTRALIA.

REGARDS BILL

[Guest 1930]

1927 Saw the introduction of the 4 spd tranny avail for 6 cyl Graham trucks. This NEW 6 cyl was based on the Senior powerplant. 4 Cyl trucks were still using the 3 spd tranny.

If you wouldnt mind sharing either here or by e-mail the advertisement you have concerning these two variations of 4 spd tranny it would be nice.

[Guest HORNSBY-AKROYD]

HI ALL,

AGAIN THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP AND ASSISTANCE, WHICH HAS BEEN INFORMATIVE AND INTERESTING, I NOTE THAT MY GEARBOX ALSO HAS ATTACHED AN EXTERNAL GEAR DRIVEN TYRE PUMP.

I HAVE MANAGED TO TRACK DOWN THE CAST RADIATOR NAME PLATES, THAT THE EARLIER TRUCKS HAD ON THE FRONT,

GRAHAM BROTHERS

ALSO I WAS FORTUNATE TO HAVE LOCATED AN ORIGINAL BUILDERS SMALL PLATE, THAT READS

BUILT BY

GRAHAM BROTHERS

DETROIT

BOTH OF WHICH HAVE BEEN NICKLE PLATED TO GIVE THIS ORIGINAL VEHICLE A SUBTLE LIFT IN PRESENTATION ALONG WITH THE RADIATOR SURROUND AND RADIATOR CAP, THAT URGENTLY REQUIRED TO BE RE-NICKLED.

I LOOK FORWARD TO MORE INFORMATION SURFACING AS MEMBERS FIND THE TIME TO ASSIST ME, BUT AGAIN A BIG THANK YOU, YOUR HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED, AND WILL BE REWARDED WHEN I CAN SEND IN PHOTO'S FOR YOUR ENJOYMENT.

KIND REGARDS BILL in AUSTRALIA

[Guest 1930]

Hi Bill, I am not sure what more information you are seeking, if you ask specific questions we can get them answered more likely than not.

I was browsing your other post in the general discussion area and I have noticed that you are being given in-accurate info concerning D.B G.B history and Id hate to see you pass that along to someone else as being fact.

[Guest 1930]

HI ALL,

I HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, MY TRUCK APPEARS TO BE FITTED WITH THE VICTORY SIX ENGINE, THANKS TO YOUR HELP.

THE 1928 RANGE OF TRUCKS HAD TWO VARIATIONS OF FOUR SPEED GEARBOXES, THERE WAS THE HI-FLEX FOUR SPEED TRANSMISSION IN 1.25 TON TRUCKS, WHICH HAD TWO SILENT FAST SPEEDS - DIRECT DRIVE IN FOURTH AND SILENT INTERNAL GEAR DRIVE IN, THIRD, QUIET AND DURABLE, TO QUOTE ADVERTISING.

BUT MY TRUCK IS FITTED WITH THE HEAVY-DUTY FOUR-SPEED TRANSMISSION AS FITTED TO THE 1.75 TON AND 2.5 TON TRUCKS, TO PROVIDE THAT IRRESISTIBLE PULL OF THE LOW-LOW FOR HOLE OR HILL AND THE SPEED WHERE CONDITIONS PERMIT.

I LOOK FORWARD TO MORE INFORMATION COMING FROM MEMBERS TO HELP ME DISCOVER MORE ABOUT THIS LOVELY OLD TRUCK IN AUSTRALIA.

REGARDS BILL

BTW as noted above in a previous post I made I hope you are still not assuming your truck is a 28

[Guest HORNSBY-AKROYD]

HI JASON,

FEAR NOT, I AM MAKING NO ASSUMTIONS, UNTIL I HAVE CAREFULLY LOOKED AT ALL THE FACTS, I WAS SIMPLY QUOTING A DOCUMENT THAT WAS CLEARLY DATED 1928, I STILL REQUIRE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TO WORK OUT EXACTLY WHICH MODEL OF TRUCK WE HAVE AND EXACTLY WHICH YEAR IT WAS BUILT.

REGARDS BILL

BTW as noted above in a previous post I made I hope you are still not assuming your truck is a 28

[Guest HORNSBY-AKROYD]

HI ALL,

FIRSTLY THANK YOU ,TO ALL WHO ARE HELPING ME WITH THIS PROJECT, I AM NOW LEANING TOWARDS THIS TRUCK BEING BUILT, DURING HE LAST SIX MONTHS OF 1928, AFTER THE CHRYSLER PURCHASE, AND THAT IT IS ,A SERIES E.

THIS MAKES IT A 1929 MODEL, SERIES E.

WHAT I NOW NEED TO DO IS DETERMINE THE CARRYING CAPACITY AND THE MODEL, ANY HELP GREATLY APPRECIATED.

KIND REGARDS BILL in AUSTRALIA

[Guest 1930]

HI ALL,

FIRSTLY THANK YOU ,TO ALL WHO ARE HELPING ME WITH THIS PROJECT, I AM NOW LEANING TOWARDS THIS TRUCK BEING BUILT, DURING HE LAST SIX MONTHS OF 1928, AFTER THE CHRYSLER PURCHASE, AND THAT IT IS ,A SERIES E.

THIS MAKES IT A 1929 MODEL, SERIES E.

WHAT I NOW NEED TO DO IS DETERMINE THE CARRYING CAPACITY AND THE MODEL, ANY HELP GREATLY APPRECIATED.

KIND REGARDS BILL in AUSTRALIA

Hello Bill, please let me know if I am just confused or overlooking something but you will notice in post # 9 above I have dated the truck late 31 early 32.

I have done this using the chart posted above, you posted a chassis number of 203491 and we determined it to be an E series because that is where the serial numbers fell into place and because of your 140 inch W.B that you gave.

Not to jump ahead but you may notice that there are two variations of the 140 W.B one having the Victory six engine which you have described because of the Gen. being on the R side. DA 140 inch W.B truck had the Gen. on the drivers side as it was the same set-up as the automobile.

You will then be able to see to the left the carrying capacity of your truck and it is listed as a 1 1/4 ton. That is originally what your truck was designated as when it was built. Chances are good that Graham factories did not add to that capacity but shipped it as was.

Once it reached its point of origin of course anything could have been done but when referencing your vehicle you would reference it as a 1 1/4 ton truck originally.

Back to the date of manufacture: You may notice 3rd segment down far right 5th row over large wide open box that reads a bunch of numbers beginning with E S D.

E= Evansville Indiana

S= Stockton California

D= Detroit Michigan

Because your serial number falls within the 175590 which you will read from the top as the starting serial number with a starting date of April 28 and the D 237361 ending date of Jan 1932 you will hopefully be able to see that it is indeed a late 1931 built truck.

Now onto your e-mail and hopefully stakeside or some other Graham owners will jump in and make any addition or corrections............

NICE TO HEAR FROM YOU, YES I AM VERY HAPPY TO SHARE ANYTHING I HAVE WITH, MY GREAT FRIENDS IN THE U.S.A. AFTER ALL IF YOU GUY’S HAD NOT DESIGNED AND BUILT MY TRUCK I WOULD NOT HAVE IT.

THE DELAY IS IN GETTING MY WIFE TO PHOTOGRAPH, THE BITS AND PIECES THEN GET THEM ON THE COMPUTER, AND AT THE MOMENT SHE IS TOO BUSY TO HELP, BUT I WILL GET IT DONE SOON.

NOW, YOU CAN’T GIVE UP ON THE TRUCK THAT EASY, SO HERE IS A CLUE, THIS MAKE WAS MADE UNDER LICENCE IN AMERICA FOR A SHORT TIME AND ONLY ONE ,FULLY RESTORED EXAMPLE OF THE U.S.A. BUILD ,EXIST’S IN AN AMERICAN TRUCK MUSEUM.

FURTHER TO MY RESEARCH, YOU HAVE BEEN ON THE MONEY.

I NOW ,AFTER FURTHER RESEARCH OVER ,HERE KNOW ;

THAT THE TRUCKS BUILT UP TO MID 1928, WERE FITTED WITH DODGE CONTINENTIAL AND DODGE STANDARD 6 CYLINDER ENGINES, ONLY THE LAST RUN OF GRAHAM BROTHERS TRUCKS BUILT AFTER THE CHRYSLER PURCHASE WERE FITTED WITH DODGE VICTORY SIX ENGINES.

THAT GRAHAM BROTHERS TRUCKS BUILT BETWEEN MID YEAR 1928 AND END OF YEAR 1928, WERE CONSIDERED AS 1929 MODELS.

THAT GRAHAM BROTHERS TRUCKS BUILT IN LATE 1928 WERE KNOWN AS THE SERIES “ E “.

ALL DODGE/CHRYSLER TRUCKS BUILT AFTER JANUARY 1929, HAD NO REFERENCE TO GRAHAM BROTHERS AT ALL.

SO WHAT I NOW THINK IS THAT MY TRUCK WAS BUILT TOWARDS THE END OF 1928 AND WAS , AND INDEED SHOULD BE ,KNOWN AS A 1929 MODEL, SERIES ‘ E “.

WHAT I AM NOW TRYING TO ESTABLISH IS IT’S CARRYING CAPACITY, AND MODEL DESIGNATION.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP WITH THIS.

KIND REGARDS BILL

Quote.......NICE TO HEAR FROM YOU, YES I AM VERY HAPPY TO SHARE ANYTHING I HAVE WITH, MY GREAT FRIENDS IN THE U.S.A. AFTER ALL IF YOU GUY’S HAD NOT DESIGNED AND BUILT MY TRUCK I WOULD NOT HAVE IT.

First I must admit that I did not prob build your truck, during that time ( late 1931 ) I was on strike trying for higher wages.

Quote............THAT THE TRUCKS BUILT UP TO MID 1928, WERE FITTED WITH DODGE CONTINENTIAL AND DODGE STANDARD 6 CYLINDER ENGINES,

The Dodge/Graham trucks built up ( prior ) to mid 28 were fitted with Dodge 4 cyl, Dodge Senior, and Dodge Victory engines, cannot remember if they used the Dodge Standard six in these trucks.

Quote.........ONLY THE LAST RUN OF GRAHAM BROTHERS TRUCKS BUILT AFTER THE CHRYSLER PURCHASE WERE FITTED WITH DODGE VICTORY SIX ENGINES.............

As noted above the Victory six engine ( or the variation of it ) was used up until the 1932 trucks. I believe if memory serves me that things changed pretty drastically for the 33 models.

I need to edit at least this portion of my post. I was incorrect in stating that Victory six engine used up until 32, I do not know what I was thinking and I guess I should be thoroughly flogged for suggesting such a thing

Quote...........THAT GRAHAM BROTHERS TRUCKS BUILT BETWEEN MID YEAR 1928 AND END OF YEAR 1928, WERE CONSIDERED AS 1929 MODELS..............

Maybe Stakeside can help me out with this, I cant seem to remember what month was the cut-off in any particular year for the model to be considered next model year chassis but it was well into the 29 model year and not the end of 28 if that makes sense.

Quote..........THAT GRAHAM BROTHERS TRUCKS BUILT IN LATE 1928 WERE KNOWN AS THE SERIES “ E .......................Yes I think you have it!

Quote...........ALL DODGE/CHRYSLER TRUCKS BUILT AFTER JANUARY 1929, HAD NO REFERENCE TO GRAHAM BROTHERS AT ALL.............

This is incorrect, Chrysler continued using the Graham placards and nameplates right on up until the early 30s, if memory serves me it may have been 33 as the last known model to carry these nameplates and to make things confusing ( for me at least ) not all trucks carried these. They prob. had some sort of a system going ( to decide which trucks got these tags ) but I do not know what that might have been.

I think we have covered all else above.

Edited August 4, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest HORNSBY-AKROYD]

HI ALL,

PARTICULARLY, 1930, WITHOUT WHOSE HELP I WOULD BE LOST, THE ONLY REASON I WAS LEANING TO LATE 1928 WAS THAT ALL THE PUBLICATIONS I HAVE READ IN AUSTRALIA, SAY THE SAME THING THAT IS QUOTED IN THE BOOK " THE GRAHAM LEGACY; BY MICHAEL. E KELLER.

AND THAT IS ;

ON JANUARY 2nd 1929, OFFICIALS OF THE CHRYSLER CORPORATION ISSUED A STATEMENT TO THE PRESS ANNOUNCING THAT THE GRAHAM NAME WAS BEING DROPPED FROM TRUCK PRODUCTION. FROM THAT POINT ON, THE CORPORATION HEADED BY WALTER CHRYSLER WOULD BE BUILDING DODGE BROTHERS TRUCKS.

HOWEVER I HAVE NOW READ, ONLY JUST THIS SECOND, AN END NOTE TO THAT STATEMENT WHICH READS, THIS ACTION WAS NOT UNEXPECTED, AND CAN ACTUALLY BE CONSIDERED BELATED, AS THE GRAHAMS HAD BEEN PRODUCING A MOST SUCESSFUL PASSENGER CAR FOR A FULL YEAR.

THE CHRYSLER CORPORATION DID RECOGNIZE THE VALUE OF THE GRAHAM BROTHERS NAME AND CONTINUED TO USE IT ON SELECTED MODELS FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

SO NOW, I KNOW I OWN A SERIES E, 1.25 TON, GRAHAM BROTHERS TRUCK BUILT IN 1931, AND MOST LIKELY ONE OF THE LAST TO BE BUILT BEARING THE GRAHAM BROTHERS NAME.

SO IS IT A 1931 MODEL, OR A 1932 MODEL ?

WHAT A GREAT THING THIS FORUM IS, I CAN'T THANK YOU ALL ENOUGH FOR YOUR VALUABLE HELP AND ASSISTANCE.

NOW IS THERE A MODEL DESIGNATION FOR THIS TRUCK SUCH AS MODEL TD ?

ALSO ARE MANY OF THESE LATE 1931 MODEL TRUCKS STILL IN EXISTANCE.

ANY FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT THIS TYPE AND MODEL OF GRAHAM BROTHERS/DODGE BROTHERS/CHRYSLER CORP TRUCK, GREATLY APPRECIATED, AND AS SOON AS I CAN, A FULL RANGE OF PHOTO'S WILL BE POSTED.

KIND REGARDS TO ALL, BILL in AUSTRALIA

[Guest HORNSBY-AKROYD]

HI ALL,

DUE TO REPLYS TO MY SIMILAR QUESTION IN THE GENERAL SECTION, THE BUILD DATE HAS NOW BEEN SUGGESTED AS 1929, SO THAT IS NOW THE PREFERRED DATE, IT WOULD ALSO BE GOOD TO HAVE A DATE FOR THE DODGE VICTORY SIX ENGINE TO HAVE BEEN BUILT, AND THIS MAY THEN CONFIRM THE EXACT CONSTRUCTION DATE.

1929

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP, LETS SEE IF WE CAN FIND A DATE FOR THE ENGINE NUMBER, M 124,119

KIND REGARDS BILL

[Guest 1930]

Hi Bill, like I had mentioned in my e-mail I had not up until this point done the actual math with the numbers but was only estimating my figures based on your frame number being 203491 and the unit 237,361 being built approx Jan 32 it seemed to me that you truck would have been built possibly late 31.

Had I really thought hard about it I would have suggested early mid 31.

Running your numbers though at approx 1,373 unit built in the Detroit plant between April 28 and Jan 32 your truck falls into approx Nov or so of 1929.

Given that it has the Victory six engine ( or we are assuming since I dont think you have yet posted pictures of your engine ) it simply would not have made any sense for me to suggest that the truck was built so late assuming you have the correct engine.

Without pictures things are not as clear as they should be so keep that in mind.

First Victory six car no M-1 with engine number M-1001 build date of 11-11-1927

Last Victory six car No M-87759 Engine No M-128387 built 12-8-1928

Victory six engine numbers to chassis numbers were approx 37000 higher by the end of Victory Prod. on account of these engines being used in Graham trucks, taxicabs ect ect so at this point as far as I know there is no exact way of pinpointing your exact date of manufacture unless you were to obtain the trucks build card from Chrysler historical.

Its only a few dollars and well worth the money.

Bill I am gonna leave this posted for now I guess, I am thoroughly enjoying this as much as I am sure you are as well, I think I am going to have to go back and make more corrections to the approx date of manufacture, I think that we are both incorrect.

I need to look into something and will post my finds in another post, I guess my question is at this point with motor no 124,119 why could your truck not be a late 1928?

I am confused, I am afraid my mind is not very sharp so I get confused easily so it takes a bit more effort for me to figure some of this stuff out.

[Guest 1930]

Ok I will just continue to add as I run across info, I found an early Graham Prod record with a Graham trucks salesmans book that lists Detroit built chassis number of D-200,000 released Nov 12 1929 Next entry D-205.000 released Jan 23 1929

This will give you a very close date of release for the manufacture of your truck

Will continue looking

Let me correct above in that the information is headed as Dodge Bros Truck Prod. but the information is found within the Graham handbook because the handbooks original release date was prior to June 1928 which is why it is carrying the Graham logo on its cover but salesmen would normally tear out any outdated info and replace it with the more current info which would have been headed by the Dodge Brothers nameplate

One more addition to my correction above, I am assuming that after Chrysler purchased Dodge/Graham he would have discontinued the use of the Graham logo in favor of the Dodge logo on all stationary.

Memory seems to remind me that this was not done with advertising as the advertising continued to use the Graham name but was not that advertising accompanied by the division of Chrysler Corp as well?

Edited August 4, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

I guess with finding this I have answered some of my own questions and hopefully yours as well in that the truck was not built late 29 but early 29 instead which would explain the Victory six engine and would place that engine as almost certainly original for the truck.

Now Bill I will need your help maybe ( besides the pictures and scans are you have promised to send me )

I need to understand why or what was going on with these huge lapses of production that show in the chart above as posted by Stakeside.

In other words we both did our math correctly and it lead us to believe we were looking at a late 29 prod. date. Where did we go wrong.

Something for both of us to work on

[Guest 1930]

I have never done this but I will copy and paste a post made on the general discussion forum to this forum, the post was originally made by user I.D TG57Roadmaster

[Guest 1930]

And his post was as such ............My 1933 Red Book (Nat'l. Used Car Market Report) gives the starting Serial Numbers for 1929 E Series Dodge Six trucks (incl'g. IE) as E133097 and up. The numbers for 1930 (140" whb Six) start at 218711, so if they're a continuation from 1929, it looks like your S/N of 203491 indeed falls in to 1929 production.

I place this post here because it is interesting, very good information if it is correct. I hope to now validate that info or denounce it. Either way it will be an interesting topic

[Guest HORNSBY-AKROYD]

HI JASON,

I TOO HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THE FIGURES AND CAN ONLY SUGGEST, WE DID NOT ALLOW A BIG DROP IN PRODUCTION FOLLOWING THE GREAT DEPRESSION, THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOU VALUABLE INFORMATION WHICH IS PROVING TO BE EXTREAMLY INTERESTING AND EDUCATIONAL.

I WILL TRY TO SEND YOU PHOTO'S OF THE 1928 DOCUMENT AND PHOTO'S OF THE ORIGINAL GRAHAM BROTHERS COMPRESSED AIR PUMP ATTACHED TO THE GEARBOX.

VERY INTERESTING WATCHING YOUR PROGRESS ON MY BEHALF.

KIND REGARDS BILL.

[Guest 1930]

I believe I see where the confusion is on TGs post, it is only because of a lack of data and I still do appreciate the fact that he made the post as it gave us all something to consider.

I do not normally make posts outside of the D.B forum because I dont have the time to try and keep up with posts all over the place so if anyone would like to copy and paste this correction there just so that he is aware he may appreciate it.

He give this bit of info ..........My 1933 Red Book (Nat'l. Used Car Market Report) gives the starting Serial Numbers for 1929 E Series Dodge Six trucks (incl'g. IE) as E133097 and up.............

He is confusing the E series of trucks with the E series or Evansville produced series of trucks as can be seen by the chart posted above by stakeside in which Evansville prod started with 133097 as of May 1928.

In other words the E series of trucks actually began production at some point in 1928 ( may have been May, I am not convinced at this point 100 % that was the actual month ) according to the Dodge Brothers trucks master parts list general information Truck model codes chart which has not at this point been posted here.

[Guest 1930]

HI JASON,

I TOO HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THE FIGURES AND CAN ONLY SUGGEST, WE DID NOT ALLOW A BIG DROP IN PRODUCTION FOLLOWING THE GREAT DEPRESSION, THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOU VALUABLE INFORMATION WHICH IS PROVING TO BE EXTREAMLY INTERESTING AND EDUCATIONAL.

I WILL TRY TO SEND YOU PHOTO'S OF THE 1928 DOCUMENT AND PHOTO'S OF THE ORIGINAL GRAHAM BROTHERS COMPRESSED AIR PUMP ATTACHED TO THE GEARBOX.

VERY INTERESTING WATCHING YOUR PROGRESS ON MY BEHALF.

KIND REGARDS BILL.

Bill I am enjoying this maybe more than yourself. I believe that there will be no further correction, I do not believe or I am quite sure there will be no further need to look at these numbers any further, now that I have taken the time to find this info and it is coming from Graham literature of the time period.

There can be no further doubt in either of our minds I dont believe.

I think we both need to understand better the fashion in which we both came to the conclusion of a late 29 prod. date, we need to do this so that we can help someone in the future more clearly with fewer mistakes. I have been all over the place here and I suppose it is a little bit embarrassing on my behalf but this is how we learn and at least I have been attempting to help.

I will be working on this and hopefully coming up with an answer and I can only hope you may do the same.

I will send you an e-mail with some literature requests that pertain to posts you have made here. Thanks

Edited August 4, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

HI JASON,

I TOO HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THE FIGURES AND CAN ONLY SUGGEST, WE DID NOT ALLOW A BIG DROP IN PRODUCTION FOLLOWING THE GREAT DEPRESSION, THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOU VALUABLE INFORMATION WHICH IS PROVING TO BE EXTREAMLY INTERESTING AND EDUCATIONAL.

I WILL TRY TO SEND YOU PHOTO'S OF THE 1928 DOCUMENT AND PHOTO'S OF THE ORIGINAL GRAHAM BROTHERS COMPRESSED AIR PUMP ATTACHED TO THE GEARBOX.

VERY INTERESTING WATCHING YOUR PROGRESS ON MY BEHALF.

KIND REGARDS BILL.

The more I think about this response the more I am sure you are right, amazing that production had fallen off that badly. I know that 32 was the worst sales in company history to date but I guess I just had not considered how bad until you made this comment.

I will look closer at production records for some of these models and get back with you here. I may be wrong but I am thinking I do not have truck production figures after maybe as early as 28.......does that sound right, is there something out there that I am possibly not thinking of?

Maybe someone here will enlighten me.

[Guest 1930]

Bill sent me some more pictures of his truck, anyone interested in seeing them besides me. Takes time to post photos.

[Guest 1930]

I found some factory Lit. of the engine in your truck Bill yesterday and will send them to you. Nice pictures, small but fairly detailed

[Guest 1930]

Hello Bill, as mentioned via e-mail on my lookout for addit. info I have run across this that pertains to your truck. I believe you will find this interesting.

Still looking for info as I read that pertains specifically to your truck and tonight I found this.

Model code - I.E

Payload LBS - 2500

Body and cab weight - 1250

Wheelbase - 140

Engine stroke - 3 7/8

Transmission - 4 spd

Propeller shaft- 2-pc

Universal joints - 3

Center bearing - Yes

Rear axle ratio - 5.100

Optional ale ratio - 5.667

Wheel type - M.I I dont recall what this means, please enlighten me

Front tires - 30x5

Rear tires - 30x5

Road clearance- 8 1/2

Fenders - Front

Running board - short

Weight LBS - 2955

This information is derived from a Sales ammunition page from a D.B G.B sales ammunition handbook dated late 1930 but having earlier inserted pages still within the book

Edited August 13, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Hello Bill, as mentioned via e-mail on my lookout for addit. info I have run across this that pertains to your truck. I believe you will find this interesting.

Still looking for info as I read that pertains specifically to your truck and tonight I found this.

Model code - I.E

Payload LBS - 2500

Body and cab weight - 1250

Wheelbase - 140

Engine stroke - 3 7/8

Transmission - 4 spd

Propeller shaft- 2-pc

Universal joints - 3

Center bearing - Yes

Rear axle ratio - 5.100

Optional ale ratio - 5.667

Wheel type - M.I I dont recall what this means, please enlighten me

Front tires - 30x5

Rear tires - 30x5

Road clearance- 8 1/2

Fenders - Front

Running board - short

Weight LBS - 2955

This information is derived from a Sales ammunition page from a D.B G.B sales ammunition handbook dated late 1930 but having earlier inserted pages still within the book

Jason did you ever see data for the DE model. I believe the DE was a GB model that was carried over to Dodge Bros. The later version may be the DA-120 model. The "Master Parts Book" does list a DE model in various locations in parts listing even though not listed in model summary list.

Could post the pictures here or e-mail the pictures sent to you for the above truck?

[Guest 1930]

Jason did you ever see data for the DE model. I believe the DE was a GB model that was carried over to Dodge Bros. The later version may be the DA-120 model. The "Master Parts Book" does list a DE model in various locations in parts listing even though not listed in model summary list.

Could post the pictures here or e-mail the pictures sent to you for the above truck?

Yes I have found all sorts of info for the DE, I hate to do this but you may want to start another new thread, I have made the time these past few weeks/months to dig alot of my literature out and really take a hard look at it. I have been able to answer many of my own questions and am sure that I could answer many of the questions that I was possibly un-able to answer even just a few short weeks/months ago.

To answer your question ( and more ) though the model DE started out as 120 inch W.B Graham offering at some point ( I can maybe pinpoint when better if asked ) in 1928 and was sold as 28-29 units.

It carried the Victory 6 cyl engine.

The code chart that you recently posted mentions a DET, if you could please inform me why the T was added it would be much apprecited. I have found no ( as of yet ) mention of a DET within my literature but maybe I just have not gone far enough yet. I have referance material for DE, DEW and a DEF.

The differences between the three trucks is within the wheel sizes and of course road clearance. On this particular model even the rear axle ratio remained the same.

Interesting fact I have just come across this A.M was that all G.B ( if Im not mistaken ) D.B up until at least 1930 came with rad. shutters manually controlled within the cab by cable with the exception of 1/2 ton merchants express as standard equipment evidently.

I thought I would throw that out there because your friend has called me a few times and he had asked me about these and at the time I simply did not know. He also asked about paint colors and I did not have within my reach documents that pertain to some models of these trucks being sold with primer only so you may want to pass that along to him.

I could go on and on with all these new exciting discoveries but back to the subject, interestingly enough many of these models had payload capacity changes when the trucks were re-badged as D.B.

For instance the 1 1/4 ton truck that this thread began over was downsized to 1 ton as per a Jan 1929 commercial motor cars and motor coaches handbook.

In other words after some point in Jan of 1929 a 1 1/4 ton truck did not exist, it was now a 1 ton, another example would be the BE and BEW chassis ( equivelent of the I.E but the shorter 130 inch W.B.)That was also downgraded to a 1 ton capacity.

Where the change happened within the chassis I do not know, same length and width of springs, same front and rear axles, I have a feeling that the number of leaves may have been changed because the Graham sales ammunition book lists the number of leaves but the later D.B catalog does not. Just my guess but its prob. a pretty good one.

Chassis ME, MER, and MEW went from a 1 3/4 ton to 1.5 ton and the same happened with the LE, LER, and LEW longer W.B ( over the M series ) ....down to 1.5

The O series OEX, OER and the OE went from a 2. 5 rating to 2 ton and the T series ( Longer W.B ) followed suit.

Interesting that the G series was upgraded from a 2.5 to 3 ton

Back to the DE, you are correct in that its started out as a G.B model only to finish its existance as a badged D.B with apparently no mechanical changes.

I would guess that prod. stopped for this truck late 28 and up until what point in 29 they were still being sold I will have to investigate.

I have both the specs for the truck badged as a D.B and a G.B and I will confirm this for you and re-post my results.

I will also confirm with Bill its ok still to post his pictures and will do so.

Edited August 13, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Thanks for imformation. I plan on submitting a summary of my investigation on a seperate tread.

You have done a lot of research on these GB/DB trucks and it should help encourage future preservation of thses trucks.

Keep them out of the crusher.

[Guest 1930]

Thanks for imformation. I plan on submitting a summary of my investigation on a seperate tread.

You have done a lot of research on these GB/DB trucks and it should help encourage future preservation of thses trucks.

Keep them out of the crusher.

That would be nice for sure

Do you have an answer for this??...........if you could please inform me why the T was added..........

Incidentally not to beat a dead bush but there are quite a few errors in the listing I have found that you have posted ( that we all use ) which was derived from the master parts book, model codes ect.

Mainly W.B errors and omitted models I guess off the top of my head

Edited August 13, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest HORNSBY-AKROYD]

HI ALL,

I JUST WANTED TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP, ESPECIALLY 1930, WITHOUT WHOSE HELP I WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GAIN SO MUCH VALUABLE INFORMATION ABOUT MY TRUCK BUILT LATE IN DECEMBER 1928.

I HAVE ALMOST FINISHED AN 8 MONTH, MECHANICAL REBUILD, WHILST KEEPING THE TRUCK COMPLETELY ORIGINAL, THIS HAS BEEN VERY TIME CONSUMING, CLEANING AND SCRAPING, WITHOUT DAMAGING THE ORIGINAL PAINT.

I LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING TO YOU ALL AGAIN SOON.

KIND REGARDS BILL

[Guest 1930]

I am glad we could help Bill, look forward to trading more info whenever you are ready, no rush

[Guest HORNSBY-AKROYD]

HI ALL,

SINCE MY LAST POST, BACK ON AUGUST THE 30th, 2012, I HAVE BEEN FULL TIME REBUILDING MY, GRAHAM BROTHERS, 1928, SERIES E, 6 CYLINDER, 1.25 TON DROP SIDE TRUCK AND FOURTEEN FOOT, FOUR WHEEL TRAILER, FOR IT'S FIRST PUBLIC EXHIBITION AT THE HISTORIC COMMERCIAL VEHICLE CLUB OF AUSTRALIA'S ANNUAL DISPLAY AT SANDOWN RACECOURSE IN VICTORIA, ON SUNDAY THE 18th NOVEMBER 2012.

AFTER THIS SHOW IS FINISHED I WILL SEND JASON, ( 1930 ) SOME PHOTO'S FOR YOUR INTEREST, THE MOST SURPRISING THING SO FAR IS THE DIFF RATIO, WHICH GIVES A VERY FAST CRUISING SPEED IN FOURTH AT RELATIVELY LOW ENGINE REVOLUTIONS.

MORE DETAILS WILL COME WITH THE PHOTO'S.

KIND REGARDS BILL