Guest Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 I have a '91 Cutlass Ciera with a Buick built 3300. What is the difference between the 3300 and 3800 other than the EGR valve, horsepower, fuel sys. SFI vs. MFI, displacement? Another question why is the 3300 Multi-Port and not Sequential-Port?<BR>Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 2dr.ltd Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 I hope you get a reply on this.Last year I posted a question on Buick V-6's in general but only got one response as to 90 degree V's and there has been some posts about differences in series I and II of the 3800.I have a 86' H.O. 3.0 but know nothing about the output or bore,stroke.I dont know if the blocks,cranks,rods and such are beefier on the larger V6 in your case the 3800 in mine the 3.8. They all bolt to the same transmission I guess except the RWD V6.Its all very confussing.Up grades have been made annually in some years.Well,hopefully someone who knows will respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 The 3300 and the 3800 are of the same family. They usually got the same upgrades, just not at the same time. The 3300 uses a low deck heighth and a shorter stoke. It is MPI meaning it has 6 injectors which fire at the same time. SPFI or TPI fire individually as the intake valve is opened. Other wise the 3300 and 3800 are very similar. <BR><P>------------------<BR>-Keith<P>'87 Lesabre T-type (The T without WHOOSH)<P>'86 Regal w/350 (still in progress)<P>http://members.nbci.com/lesabrettype/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 M.F.I. is the same as batch firing the front 3 inj. fire then the back 3. Not all at the same time. And your right the compression is 9:1 in the 3300 and 8.5:1 on 3800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 2dr.ltd Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Could someone explain to me what benefit a injector squirting at any other time than on intake stroke would be?Whats the idea behind this?<BR>Do any of you know what was the scoop with the 86 H.O. 3.0?This was listed as standard equipment for at least 86'LeSabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 The 3.0 is essential the same as the 3.8L the 3300 is the 3.0L replacement like the 3800 replaces the 3.8L odd-fire. The benefit to Multi-port is faster acceleration and saturation time for the piston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 2dr.ltd Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 O.K.,on SFI the injector is in the port just before the head.In MPI where are they?Doesnt seem they would want them squirting at a closed valve.If Im understanding this right them the fuel from the other two injectors is drawn out of their manifold port around the corner to the cyl. that draws it in?<P>What was the difference between the 3.0 &3.8?Bore,stroke,both,compression ratio,why did they list it as high output? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 There are a lot of batch fire injector systems around, on all makes, but sequential injection offers improved driveability. The multiport systems have the injectors in the same location as the sequential, it is simply the electronics that drive them that is different. They are all made to spray somewhere near the backside of the intake valve. With a batch fire system, the computer simply senses the fuel needs through various sensors and adjusts the injector pulse width to keep the average mixture correct, there is no need for additional sensors to time the squirt to the correct cylinder. The sequential systems have to be more precise and have more possibilities for something to go wrong, although all are pretty reliable. As a matter of fact, the sequential systems will operate, and the engine will run, without the timing signal for the correct sequence, just not as efficiently. If you think about it, there are just fractions of a second difference from one valve opening to the next, so the difference is small. The biggest advantage is of course fuel vaporization, which will be better in a moving air stream than laying on the back of the valve. The other system that was used until recently was the throttle body injector which looked a lot like a carbureter but had one or more injectors pointed down into the air stream. It has the same fuel distribution problems as a carbureter but is easier to control electronically than a carb.<P>------------------<BR>Hal, btk@vbe.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 The 3300 has a bore of 3.7 times 3.16 stroke the 3800 has a bore of 3.8 times 3.40 stroke. The 3.0 is similar to the bore and stroke of the 3.8. The compression on the 3300 is 9:1 and on the 3800 8.5:1. The 3.0 is listed as high output because it puts out almost the same h.p. but less torque because of displacement. For example the '89 3800 and 3300 have similar h.p. (3300=160;3800=165) but the torque is different. And Multi-port doesn't need a precise cam signal like SFI however the 3800 will never regress to MPFI it will pulse the fuel injectors every 6.25 millisec. for every crankshaft revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 2dr.ltd Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Hey Hal where ya been!If you havent been there yet go to <A HREF="http://membersnbci.com/lesabrettype/index.html" TARGET=_blank>http://membersnbci.com/lesabrettype/index.html</A> and check out topics from steveX or GNnext this guy has some good ideas and some unessasary for most purposes.How ever he is working on a turbocharged 3800 and did a proto type in a 4dr.LeSabre.Bad news is the "old board" has been updated to a new board and most of his early turbo posts have been deleted.<P>Chuck do you have access to bore,stroke,compression ratio of old 3.0 and output #'s? Are you saying the 3.0 and 3.8FWD and 3.8 RWD were oddfire.I thought they were evenfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Your correct that my mistake the 3.8L and 3.0L are even-fire since '77. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 How bout some info on the computer that is running your '86 2dr. ltd?(please excuse the play on words) go to: <A HREF="http://www.isthq.com/~dan/aldl_58.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.isthq.com/~dan/aldl_58.htm</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 2dr.ltd Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 Wo,that will keep me busy for awhile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 So does anybody have any info on performance parts on the old 33? Or some info I can use please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 2dr.ltd Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 T-Keiths page is good for FWD 3.8,3800.But I believe its been determined that not much has been made.No camshafts,2-seater has found some pistons through trial and error.If you search back 1 full year on performance page there are some posts all concerning 3800.Ive always wondered if RWD Regal pistons,rods and cams would work in early 3.0,3.8.They have lots of stuff for them.<P>I wonder if the crank journals are the same on the smaller motors.If they are it would seem to me that you could get some reliable RPMs out of the short strokers with a reground cam,larger injectors.Its all stuff I'll probably never do though.I maintain so many motors already where would I find the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 I looked at the pistons and rods out of the 3.8 engines and the stuff from the 3800 looks like race parts compared to them. The 3800 rods are longer, which is good for engine efficiency (higher rod ratio)and the pistons have a shorter compression height to allow for the longer rod. The pistons are also shorter overall and don't have a complete cylindrical skirt like the 3.8. Even if the crank jounals are the same, I think the nose is different as the 3800 drives the oil pump from the crankshaft, which to my mind is better. The path to the oil pump is shorter and it spins at twice the rpm. I've almost never heard of a 3800 with low oil pressure but many posts of this from the 3.8. The 3800 crank has the rolled fillets like used in the 3.8 turbo motors although I don't know if the material is the same. I remember seeing a post on the GN list a while ago about a guy that pumped up a 3800 on a dyno to find the strength limits. He got up around 500hp. before it spit the crank out the bottom. Actually the crank didn't fail but the main caps did. I would think 300 reliable horsepower should be possible. Since the 3300 is the little brother to the 3800, I would swap in the larger engine and get an instant increase in torque. They are relatively plentiful and cheap in the salvage yards.<P>------------------<BR>Hal, btk@vbe.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Just a correction:<P>The 3.8 motor does drive the oil pump off the crankshaft, just like the 3800. I have never heard of oiling problems with the 3.8 either. The 3.8 is still a good motor, just as good as the 3800 in my opinion, dispite what some 3800 owners will tell you.<P>-T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 2dr.ltd Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 There seems to be enough of them on the road.There is a 87' Riv that needs a motor,I called and the guy said it was the second time it spun a rod.He was the original owner and said the second time was enough.Wonder how it was driven.Were the rod bearings a problem on this engine.Remember Dick he said they were finicky.I dont think any engine will hold up if driven like hell all the time.Look at how many engines the LeMans 24 hr. has killed.That means you have 24 hr. or less of punishing driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 There was no intention to cast aspersions on the 3.8's. They are very tough, as evidenced by what can be done in the turbo variants. If given reasonable care, they last a long, long time. I do not know for a fact when the change was made to the 3800 style oil system, but as far as I know, they were driven by the cam on the 3.8's and there is an external cam sensor that connects to it. The 3800 has an internal cam sensor. The 3.8 had the oil pump located higher in the front cover and hence has a longer path from the oil pan to the pump. The 3800 style oil pump has a rotor on the crankshaft itself and the outer surrounds the crankshaft also. There is no way to prime the oil system on the 3800 style system. There may be some misunderstanding, or misuse, of terms on my part as there seems to be a couple of years where the 3.8 and 3800 designations were used interchangeably. As a matter of fact, the option sticker inside the trunk for my 1990 Reatta lists the engine as a 3.8 but the 3800 was phased in in 1988???<P>------------------<BR>Hal, btk@vbe.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Not meaning any disrespect hear, 2seater you sound like a very knowledgable guy. But I just replaced the timing chain on my '87 Lesabre 3.8. The oil pump is run off of the crankshaft. If you are refering to the camshaft driven ones as in distributor models, I would assume that they stopped that with the dist. in 85. But yes the '86-'88 3.8 did come with the oil pump around the crankshaft.<P><P>------------------<BR>-Keith<P>'87 Lesabre T-type<P>'86 Regal w/350 (still in progress)<P><A HREF="http://members.nbci.com/lesabrettype/index.html" TARGET=_blank>The Lesabre T-type Page</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 Hmmm, I'll have to check that out. Does your fwd engine have an external cam sensor, where the distributor used to be? Was your timing set all steel, or did it have a nylon coated sprocket? I wonder if there are differences between the fwd and rwd versions of the engine? A friend and I will be tearing down his '87 turbo motor and I will know for sure. I guess in a sense, we at least agree that the crank driven oil pump is superior to the earlier version. Thanks for the info. <P>------------------<BR>Hal, btk@vbe.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 The answers to you other qusetions:<BR>The cam sensor bolts to the middle of the cover, not where the distributor is. The camshaft sprocket was originally nylon coated. The one I replaced it with(Checkers) was steel. Many people say the '86 and '87 3.8s are very similar to the turbo RWD versions. I suppose this is true to some extent, but I do beleive there a few differances.<P><P>------------------<BR>-Keith<P>'87 Lesabre T-type<P>'86 Regal w/350 (still in progress)<P><A HREF="http://members.nbci.com/lesabrettype/index.html" TARGET=_blank>The Lesabre T-type Page</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Thanks for the info. Your cam sensor is like my '90, but I know the '87 turbo engines have the external cam sensor. Maybe there are other internal differences as well. I'm pretty sure the oil pump is different too. The '88 and newer engines came with the all steel timing set. I know I got way off the original subject of this post, but I believe some of it may be relevant, since there seem to be differences in the same size engines.<P>------------------<BR>Hal, btk@vbe.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 2dr.ltd Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 If you went way back to last spring when I asked about "Buick V6" the one guy that answered me said they (3.0,3.8)had better oiling than older engines.This must be the problem he was refering too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now