novaman
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Posts posted by novaman
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His answers did have a theme....Old
I glad he is our Executive Director. Personally, he has brought new life to this club, got us up to date to technology, and even to the point I have seen a change in attitude of the national officers from kind of humdrum to enthusiastic. Steve, I just want to say thanks for all the hard work you have put into this club.
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Steve, you paniced me there for a minute with the thread title. Thought maybe we were going to be using the Lemon....I mean Yellow field again.
I saw the headline about the car on another site a minute ago. I'll have to check out the youtube link this evening. Not allowed on there with company computer.
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If I remember correctly going from DPC to Class judged you need to turn in the badges like just like you would do if you "recycle" your car and go for your 1st Jr again. I'd have to look it up to verify.
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HPOF works basicaly like this:
they look at the four catagories of the vehicle. Engine, Chassis, Interior, Exterior. In each of those catergoies it is broken down kindof like the sheet for Jr but a little more general. so you get a score/percentage for that item/area Those are average out for a percentage score for that category. Then they take each of the four areas percentage then average them together for an overall score/percentage. If it makes 65% or higher then the car gets certified. So if nothing was touched in the engine, chassis, interior areas, and the outside was repainted, rechromed, that would be a 100%+100%+100%+0% divided by 4 = 75%
This is a little different than how I understood it was to be when the HPOF first started which was more like the car had to be something like 80% in any category then the car was certified in that catergory. The idea was that the car info would be on file at the library and if I was restoring a car like it and needed info then I could contact the library, they'd put me in touch with the owner of an HPOF car certified in that area of need.
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Mark, maybe you ought to take a poll of those that would like to come and which would be the best day for them. I know you can't accomadate everyone's best evening but could pick the one that would give the majority.
in the early days of the fourm we used to meet on Wed evening at Hoover's restoration shop. There would be a number of people there but the one thing I noticed was how many dropped in and ran because of other things going on. I don't know if Thursday or friday evening would be any better but can ask other DFer's opinion.
It was nice meeting you last year & making/having ice cream with Randy.
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Sounds like you shouldn't have any problems.
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First digit is assembly plant:
A- Atlanta, Ga
C- South Gate, CA
F- Framingham, MA
K- Kansas City, KS
L-Linden, NJ
P-Pontiac, MI
W-Wilmington, DE
Second digit = # of Cylinders
Third digit = model year (T=1950)
Fourth Tranny type:
H = Hydra-matic
S = Syncro-mesh
Last four basic production number
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Matt is correct about if you are planning on showing it at a national meet, then yes you really need to restore it back to the way it came from the factory.
If you are only planning on going to local type meets with it then it depends on which meet you go to. There are some AACA local region/chapter meets that are strict as national on modifications, then others will let some things slide.
Then other show who knows. If it is people's choice to determine than anything goes. There was a show near here that was hosted by an orgiazation and a nearby street rod club judged it. There was classes for stock Chevy II/Novas and one for modified Chevy II/Novas. My dad and I had the only two stock Chevy IIs in the meet. A guy with a Chevy II with ladder bars, full rollcage, street drag tires took home 1st place!!!:mad: Obviously modifications didn't matter there.:confused:
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You should be fine. My Chevy II is pretty much orginal and it has had radials on it every time it has been in the HPOF class. So, as long as you aren't marginal on making the overall % (forgot the figure), you won't have a problem.
Just checked..65%
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If, in fact, cars are not in competition with each other…as many have stated. Why is it always recommended (and it has to me on several occasions) to attend a smaller national event: "Go where fewer cars turn up" or "you have a better chance at getting your First Junior outside of Hershey".
If a car meets the minimum requirement to achieve a First Junior…regardless of what cars are in the class…the cars should be awarded as such.
Does the AACA keep track or keep historic records on a particular car's point record from every show it attends? If so, I would guess it is not information that can be accessed by a car owner. Sure would be interesting to see…..
AACA does and they have followed some cars that have attended every meet ina year and those cars scored within a few points of itself at each meet. The deductions might not have been the same items each time, but the scores were close.
What I'd be curiuos to see is how many vehicles scored 385 or worse and still got thier first due to the "curve" of just needing to be within ten points of the highest car. If you go to a specified point cut off, you know as well as I do, that cut off will be raised. I personaly know of a number of cars I've judged that would fall in that group.
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I have never had the pleasure to attend a meet out West for the AACA. I have noticed the same with the VCCA that judging is not really important and the classes do not have the same number of vehicles as they do in the East.
Later,
Why is it always recommended (and it has to me on several occasions) to attend a smaller national event: "Go where fewer cars turn up" or "you have a better chance at getting your First Junior outside of Hershey".I'm tying the two together. If you take a close look at the membership and I'm surre it applies to VCCA also, the number of members per sq area west of the mississippi is much smaller. Look at Hershey region with I think I heard something like 500+ members, NC Region with 600+ members and Hornet's Nest Region which I believe is 100+, when talking area that those regions cover your not talking a very large area for over 1,200 members and there are a lot of other regions in those same areas. With large membership numbers like that, there are a large number of vehicles that could turn out for a Meet. Less populated areas out west aren't going to draw as many cars. With that lower number or cars turning out there is a less likely chance of that 400 point car showing up that everyone dreads. whichs lowers the standard for everyone else. The AACA point system is based on those within ten points get the same award. Ideally that would be everyone 390+ but that wouldn't be practiacal. so it is within 10 points of the highest point car which brings more cars into that award level. What everyone seems to get hung up on it the "saftey" of 365 which prevents someone from bringing a piece of junk to a meet and taking home a 1st.
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Just thought of something else, I just got the seats done for my station wagon. IF we were to use 365 as the only requirement for 1st and PRESUMING the rest of my 4dr I used as an example in the prvious post was RESTORED execpt the front seat, answer me this:
I have a car that would score above the 365 even with a correct seat but in bad condition. It is still usable. seat cushion/back is max of 5 points so the deduction wouldn't be enough to knock me out. Why would I want to pay over $1,000 to get the seats redone?
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AACA judging is basically the same thing.
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Far from it.
As long as the highest point car dictates anything or sets the bar, you are compeating against the other cars.
What I was trying to get across in the prior post was:
a) That all vehicles has the potential of achieving a perfect score. Just as you as a student had the opportunity of achieving a perfect score on an exam. No competition so far
The vehicle receives its score based on that vehicle's merits. No other vehicle on the show field affects that score. Just like taking that exam, another student's exam doesn't affect your exam score (unless your cheating off theirs) no competition so far.c)At the end of the day, all the cars scores are gathered and grouped into ten point ranges just a a teacher grading an exam on a curve when the top student's grade isn't a perfect score. Those in the top group gets a A/1st second group a B/2nd, etc. I really don't see much you could call competition here after being to other shows where if you weren't one of the top three cars in the class you didn't take home anything. If the vehicle could score a 390+ anyways this all wouldn't make any difference anyways as it would be within the ten points anyways no matter where the 10 point range started. This just makes more vehicles eligible for awards instead of only one person taking home a 1st.
d) Now we get to the "but my car made the 365 but I didn't get a 1st". At this point I can agree with the idea of there possibly being competition, but let's look at three things here:
1) No minimum score. Have you been to a meet out west? There are a lot of classes that have NO vehicles in them. What a Perfect opportunity for me to get a first with my Chevy II. Would you be happy to see this car 1963 II4004drsd as an AACA JR or SR car because I took it a meet out west and there was nobody else in my class. This is what the 365 is meant to prevent.
2) If you were to do away with the "10 point spread", they will of course raise the minimum. The object to this is for owners to restore the vehicles to 400 point level. if they left the minimum score 365 for a 1st, It doesn't encourage the top notch restoration. Also at 365 I could come in with a vehicle with a bunch of missing or poor condition parts and still take home a first. Heck, I could take a 400 point car say a 30's Packard, paint it Plum Crazy (70's Cuda) and take a first (10 point deduction, enough from keeping you from getting a first currently). At 365, I could bring a '5 with radial tires 5x3pt, halogen headlights 2x5pt, aftermarket intake 10pt and eldlebrock carb 10pt and still take home a first. Whatever the min score is, it still ends up being a point spread but at this point, if someone doesn't make it then they will complain the standard is too tough and the min should be lowered.
3)as a result of 2 and raising the points needed for a first, that will also trickle down and affect those that could recieve a 2nd or 3rd.
As for how I would feel if bitten by the ten point rule. It wouldn't bother me. To me the day is about showing the cars, talking to other old car people, hopefully learning new things either about my car or other people's cars. Yes, it would be nice to take the award home at the end of the day but, I'm not going to let a $15 (or however much) trophy determine whether it was a good day or bad day. Also I know what the rules are and accept them as they are. What I don't like is when you and your dad enter the STOCK Chevy II class and have the only two STOCK Chevy IIs in the show and two others take home the first and second. One of the cars had a rollcage and slicks!! (non-AACA show) What part of stock don't the judges understand?? The only time I was upset leaving a show in 26 years.
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Wonder if he has a cape with the AACA logo on it for this job?
We're in trouble, Wayne's got the same title! Hope that cape doesn't clash with his hat. We don't need the fashion police after him.
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Peter, Thanks for your work on the upgradea for the entire AACA Site. I know it has been a much longer, drawn out precess than you had orginally planned. Also thanks for your assistance on the NC Region. With it being I presume the largest website having 17 subwebsites for the region and 16 chapters, plus the fact that we have a couple for chapters with thier own websmasters have presented certain adminastrative challenges that we manged to get worked out. Again thank you for your time and effort you have devoted to the AACA "internet program".
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I don't have much time left on lunch so I have to make this fast.
I believe AACA looks at the cars not competing aginat each other ins this sense:
Part A:
Each car comes onto the show field with 400 points. points are deducted on each car according to that cars flaws, not if it is prettier than the car/part on the car next to it. you now have a final score.
Part B:Remember in grade school when you took a test. you didn't compete against the kids in class. you did you're best to achive a level that would get you a passing grade perferable getting an A (1st place). Remember the thing called the "curve", when the smartest kid in class could only achive a 90% becuase it was tough (as a nit-picky judge could do to your class). That test was counted as 100% then the kids within ten points of the actual score also got an A. AACA judging is basically the same thing. the 365 min point is to keep the "lazy, high school flunky" from achiving an "A" because all the other kids skipped the test that day.
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This was what I saw they could have done. Won't work at many places but at the E hotel, you had to come one of two hallways. They could have setup table farther up and around the corner of both halls, allowing you to come down the hall, find your name on the list (handout are definately better), sign in then proceed on down the hall and around the corner to where the doors were that we entered.
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agreed, compliments to the Gettysburg Region. And the hotel sucked.
1. Reservations made in early Jan, then was one of 18 that was bumped from the hotel due to thier "computer error" as my dad was told. From what I can tell the 18 bumped were all one night stays. Then after I guess, Gettysburg Region got invovled they said they'd paid half of another room at the America's Best up the road. Not being at or next door to the host hotel is a bit of a problem due to dad and I judging and mom doesn't. Plus both of my parents ahve a hard time getting around due to leg problems so walking is pretty much out.
We ended up getting the 3 night reservation of someone else that cancelled out. a couple of calles the reservartion were now in our name.
2. On thursday afternoon we called and cancelled the reservation for Thursday night. Fine, no problems.
3. First night in the hotel my folks said it sounded like squirrels or something having a party above us. I was dead to the world, I never heard them but then again I live two blocks from the firehouse and don't hear the siren or trucks at night and 4 blocks from the train tracks and don't hear the train come through. They did end up putting us in another room for Sat night.
4. Before Judge's Breakfast, Dad went to cancel the reservations for Friday so we could head back to NC. Nope, can't cancel. If we didn't stay we'd still have to pay for the room because we didn't cancel prior to 24 hours. And she had an attitude about it. (how comes there wasn't a problem in canceling Thursday night when it was less than 24hr?)
I'm not sure wether it was the first or the second reservation (I believe the first) dad asked for a handicapped room, with an atitude was told "So what..there's nothing we can do about it".
Obviously this hotel doesn't care about it's guests, they only wanted our money (min two night stay). Poor excuse for a business center too, 1 computer.
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bump to top
Thanks for posting this Matt. I was going to do it before Gettysburg but was having issues trying to get the NC Region website moved to it's new url. Still having some username issues for chapter webmasters. Been working on that since I got back.
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As for the second half of your post. AACA requires peroid correct battery. They are not looking so much at the brand name. If you remove the T3 logo, Wagner, Phillps, westingouse word from a sealed beam headlight they look pretty much alike. But obviously they (sealed beams) didn't come on a Model T. Like wise with the battery, a "sealed" maintainance free battery you bought at Pep Boys, Advance, Auto Zone, etc., would obviuosly be out of place on a model A era car with the tar-style battieries, or even like my '63 Chevy II Nova which came with fill caps. Again, what is period correct.
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don't know about the orange field, but dennis carpenter is from nc and in the Choclate field
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Wayne, I may have a photo of the end of the trail statue. I took it about 30 years when I was to OK. I'll lok tonight and post it if I find it.
I don't know if you ran across the info while there but unfortunately this country used germ "warfare" to help decrease the indian population by distributing blankets that were contaminated with TB. They say history repeats itself and I hope this is one place we never return to.
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I'd fill each cyl with PB Blaster spray and each day try turning the either with crankbolt or fylwheel. in doing so go both ways the little jerking action from both directions will help. just don't get in a big hurry and really jerk hard on it or you'll likely to break a ring or piston.
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I personally feel it should fall under the 2nd generation class (when old enough). If I am corect, it is not being produced by GM and certainly not in 1969. To me it would be the same as allowing the 2009 Camaro (which is made by Chevrolet) on the show field. This hobbby is about preserving the past, not making something new and pasing it off as the past.
Just one member's thoughts...
The vehicle receives its score based on that vehicle's merits. No other vehicle on the show field affects that score. Just like taking that exam, another student's exam doesn't affect your exam score (unless your cheating off theirs) no competition so far.
Hershey Awards Dinner
in General Discussion
Posted
$25-$30...Wayne must be planning on going alone.