carlsoncg

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  1. Hugh, Larry and Terry, RM Auctions agreed with our analysis of the chassis and engine numbers and that Lot 253 was not a 25S model as it was proported to be. They have agreed to void the sale. I can't thank you enough for your help! Again I am so glad I joined BCA and made that post. Sincerely, Carl
  2. Hugh, Larry, and Terry, et. al., Thanks. Looks like Lot 253 is really a 1925 Model 25 and NOT a 1925 Model 25S. I have passed this info to RM Sothebys and now we will see if they really stand behind their “Twenty Day Window for Rescission of Sale Due to Material Misrepresentation” as clearly this Lot was misrepresented. Cheers, Carl
  3. Based on the Chassis numbers of Larry and Hugh's cars shown above is it likely this car is a 1925 25 and not a 25S as advertised and certified?
  4. Hugh and Larry, I just got the Chassis number off the car from Reliable where it is stored in NJ pending delivery. It was as you said re location and easy to find and read: # 1,284,720. This number falls outside chassis numbers given for 1925 Standard 25 S Sport Touring of 1,273,000 to 1,273,605 w additional number of 1, 283,751. Even if you add in 46 more numbers to get to 651 25 S models (i.e., 1,273,651) it still falls outside that range. Do we know what Chassis #1,284,720 was born as? Thanks, Carl
  5. All, Thank you. I did get a call from RM Auctions on Thursday while out of the country and just returned the call today. Looking at Auction Site photos again it is clear that the number listed as the VIN by RM Auctions and the Certificate of Validity by Merrick Museum (See above) is the engine number : 1,319,522 as one of the photos shows the tag on the engine where it should be. I called my Reliable Carrier POCs and asked if someone could look for the Chassis number. However just got voice mail so likely car is on the way to me for delivery Today through Thursday. I think you would agree that even with all that is wrong with the car (even the engine not correct for the 25S) that is it all comes down to the Chassis number and if it falls within the range of 1,273,000 and 1,273,605 as everything else is "Buyer Beware" and I am stuck with it. As it stands the car is not very usable as it stands not being started/driven for who knows how many years as it sat in the "Museum." At least the gas tank and radiator where drained. Assuming I am unsuccessful in voiding the sale I will reach out for advice on how to re-commission the car. Any opinions/advice welcome re my forthcoming discussion/argument w Sothebys welcome. You guys have been VERY helpful and I greatly appreciate it. Cheers, Carl
  6. Thank you Hugh. This does sound like the salient point. I will ask Reliable to look for the chassis number. When I get that we have the information to say yes or no it is a 25S correct?
  7. The only number I have is the VIN provided earlier (above) that BCA thinks is an Engine number (if it is engine number it does not fit in 1925 range listed above) but that is probably not definitive enough as engine could have been changed out. As the car has not been delivered yet I can get no other numbers. Sounds like you are saying I have to take delivery of the car, find the chassis number and compare it to list above? How about dibarlaw saying At the display tent I did measure the WB and it was 114" Did not someone say a true 25S would have a 120" wheel Base? Thanks, Carl
  8. All, Thanks. I have submitted the following to RM Auctions. No response. Please let me know if I got my facts wrong any where. I have not added part about the tag having the S stamped-in/added later, but will. Anything else I should point out? Cheers, Carl From: Carl Carlson Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 10:27 AM To: 'owalker@rmsothebys.com' <owalker@rmsothebys.com> Cc: 'legal@rmsothebys.com' <legal@rmsothebys.com>; 'Karen C' <carlsonkt7@gmail.com> Subject: FW: Authenticity Concern Hershey RM Auctions Lot 253 Bidder 5501 Olivia, I am emailing you as I have heard nothing from RM Sothebys Legal since I submitted bottom email Sunday night. The following is a partial list from Buick Club of America (BCA) members (one of whom surveyed the car at the auction) that indicates that lot 253 is not a 1925 Buick Model 25S Standard Six Sport Touring and is likely a “Tribute Car.” As such I desire to void the sale under the “Twenty Day Window for Rescission of Sale Due to Material Misrepresentation.” As a reminder the car is currently at Reliable’ s NJ Warehouse awaiting delayed delivery next week. If at all possible I would request the car stay in NJ to avoid unnecessary transportation costs. Please advise me of next steps. Partial list of issues follows: 1. The headlight bezels, lens and reflector are 1926 or 27. 2. The radiator shell is 1926 or 27. 3. The wheels are for 21" rims as the 1925 cars had 22" rims. 4. The upholstery is very puffy and the front seat bottom is about 6" longer than it is supposed to be. It is not the correct seat riser or springs. 5. While the top framework has the correct shape, style etc. It would have an issue if you wanted to fold the top. 6. The gypsy sides are tacked directly to the body covered by HIDEM. These should have snaps close to the very rear surface where there should be a pocket for the "iron stud" this is where the top rests or clamps bolt on to hold all the top structure. 7. The way it is made now you could fold the top and do a lot of pinching of the fabric and possible tearing. Following picture is how it should look: Please let me know you received this email and what the next steps are. Thank you, Carl Carlson 617-877-9660 From: Carl Carlson Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 1:53 AM To: legal@rmsothebys.com Cc: Carl Carlson <carlsoncg26@gmail.com>; carlsonkt7@gmail.com Subject: Authenticity Concern Hershey RM Auctions Lot 253 Bidder 5501 RM Sothebys, On Thursday 10 Oct at RM Auctions 2019 Hershey Auction I bid on and won Lot 253 purported to be a 1925 Buick Model 25S Standard Six Sport Touring. I have two issues with this purchase: 1. Thursday night 10 Oct 2019 I joined the Buick Club of America (BCA) and posted a request for wind wings as the one on the driver’s side was broken. Today I received a response to my post indicating that if this was the 1925 Buick Model 25S sold at the Hershey 2019 RM Auction that based on the wind shield frame and wind winds that they had serious concerns and that likely this car was a “Tribute Car” and not an authentic 1925 Buick Model 25S Standard Six Sport Touring. Obviously that is not what the documentation said, and I wanted to raise this issue immediately in accordance with, the “Twenty Day Window for Rescission of Sale Due to Material Misrepresentation.” 2. When I was completing my auction paper work in the on-site office Thursday night I was talking about picking up the car with a trailer when I was asked if I had one of the running vehicles from the Merrick Auto Museum Collection. I was then informed that only a few of the Merrick cars were recommissioned the rest were not running, had their gas tanks drained and radiators drained and batteries disconnected. I stopped by the office Friday morning to ask what else had been done to the car and how long it had been since the car had been run. I was told that as far as RM knew only gas and radiator were drained and battery disconnected and that RM had no idea when the car had last started and run, but that they had had to push the Merrick cars everywhere. I believe this fact should have been disclosed in the catalogue, on-line or by the auctioneer. I saw cars were being pushed on and off the stage, but thought that was due to building restrictions. It was not till Friday’s auction when I realized that some cars were being driven on stage. I would not have bid had I known that this car was not running and no one had any idea when last it had been. I thought a museum car meant the highest quality and conditions, at least mechanically. Please acknowledge receipt of this email and advise next steps. The car is being transported by Reliable to their warehouse in NJ Monday-Wednesday for delayed delivery to me 21-24 Oct as I am out of the country in France 14-19 Oct. However, I can be reached by email and phone. Sincerely, Carl G. Carlson
  9. All, Great info, especially info on radiator and wheel size, etc. I will use this info to invalidate the sale if at all possible. I do not have car yet as delvery scheduled for bext week and I have sent you all documents and photos I have. If RM Auctions and Merrick's Certificate VIN is really an engine number does it give a date that might help make the case? Again, thanks to everyone! Please send any thing else that helps. No response from RM Sotheby's yet. Cheers, Carl
  10. Thank Hugh, Good info re-tag on Firewall and I will use it! Please see link and pictures I posted above (again sorry for pictures 90 off). I have attached Merrick Museum's "Verification Certificate that came with car and was on the seat. Thanks again for the help... Cheers, Carl
  11. Hugh, Thanks. The RM Auctions Cataloge, on-line listing and auctioneer plus a Certificate of Validity from Merrick Auto Museum listed Lot 253 as a 1925 Buick 25S Standard Six Sport Touring automobile w VIN 1319522. I attached pictures and the link to the RM Auction listing, but car does not have room for a trunk in the rear between the 2 x spare tires and the body so I do not think it is a Master Model 55. Unfortunately I was not able to measure wheel base but car is a little less than 15 feet long. The auction (picture showing Auction Lot label on wind-shield), lead dibarlaw to state that this was likely a "Tribute Car" implying it was not properly identified by RM Auctions nor the Merrick Museum Certificate. On the strength of these observation I have asked RM Auctions to consider my claim that this is not the car advertised. Link to Auction listing follows: https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/hf19/hershey/lots/r0089-1925-buick-model-25s-standard-six-sport-touring/759671 I have attached photos I took on Friday (sorry some are on their side even after I saved them again after rotating 90 in Paint). Please let me know if you think this is not the car advertised as I expect RM Sotheby's to contact me soon for proof... If someone could post this to the whole BCA to see what the consensus is I would greatly appreciate! Thanks again for everyone's help, Carl Carlson carl.carlson@ixblue-us.com 617-877-9660
  12. All, This is the car I bought Thursday night. I have informed RM Auctions of my concerns that this is not an authentic car as represented per their "Twenty Day Window for Rescission of Sale due to Material Misrepresentation" clause. I would never have bought the car had I know this was a "tribute" car as both RM Auctions and the Merrick Museum "Verification Certificate" indicate it is an authentic 1925 Buick Model 25S Standard Six Sport Touring car. Please let me know what you saw that indicates this car is not authentic and is a "tribute" car. Any Pictures, descriptions, etc. that I can use to prove this to RM Auctions GREATLY appreciated. Thank you! So glad I joined the BCA. Cheers, Carl Carl Carlson carl.carlson@ixblue-us.com 617-877-9660