Bob Roller
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Posts posted by Bob Roller
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On 3/6/2008 at 12:07 AM, flackmaster said:
The 1939 Tach was driven off the back end of the generator, and the primary purpose was to illustrate the new for 1939 overdrive setup to Packard customers.
On 3/7/2008 at 1:15 PM, Speedster said:Thanks JT,
Great Info.
I saw one years ago that was driven by the generator. One old Packard mechanic said if it ever hit
5000 RPM it would put a rod thru the block. I had a 1935 "Super"8 when I was in high school and
it had a beautiful dash and two glove compartments.This car was traded in on a Morris Minor
in 1952 and I bought it for $150.It was a convertible with wire wheels (6) and a rumble seat.
In the glove box on the drivers side I found a loaded German P38,unloaded it and had the owner
of the dealership I was working in call the Morris owner to come and get it. This man was a
law enforcement officer in Kentucky and carried it all over the country with him.In the past
I have owned a 1951-52 and 53 + a 55 Patrician. The Patrician was a pathetic example of
what happened to kill Packard and the Ultramatic transmission was the killer.In 1956 I
understand that they got the "bugs" out of it but the 55's made sure few of the 56's were sold.
My 51 was Ultramatic with a small (288)CID engine that didn't tear up the transmission.
I did rebuild it after it started "surging"while idling in"drive".I made all new bronze bushings
and closed up the sloppy manufacturing tolerances and the direct clutch in the converter could
be felt when it engaged. In 1989 I went to St.Louis and rebuilt another one for a man who had
his fail in a fine 54 sedan and I drove it back to Huntington WV where I live and fine tuned it.
He picked it up on a trip from DC and drove it out West to wherever he lived.
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On 7/12/2018 at 11:34 PM, Matt Harwood said:
I'll politely disagree with my friend David. A few years ago, the Whittell Duesenberg coupe (not convertible) with an aluminum roof sold for $10 million and was, for a period, the most expensive American car ever--probably until that Shelby. While it was unusual and had an interesting story (including a lion named Bill), it was still a standard Duesenberg and not even supercharged.
The Gable SSJ has everything that a top Full Classic should offer: rarity, history, performance, and a bit of celebrity ownership to make it sparkle. A shorter wheelbase, lighter bodywork, and more power are tough to ignore on a car that was already the most powerful of its era. And while you may think there are not a lot of guys with means, motive, and opportunity to own such a thing, I must disagree. There are A LOT of crazy wealthy people in this hobby and this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to own the ultimate version of the ultimate American pre-war car. It also carries a more recent restoration than the Gable SSJ, which is owned by a friend of mine, and presents in a more contemporary fashion (subdued colors with blackwall tires). It is a shoo-in for all the big events and the owner of this car will likely become a bit of a celebrity himself for a short while. Hell, these days, $13 million isn't even that much money for a Tier 1 car. At Monterey, you'll see a dozen cars blow through that figure pretty easily.
I don't want to speculate on the ultimate result, but I believe it will comfortably surpass the Cobra and we might be very surprised indeed by the final price.
That SSJ was never owned by Clark Gable. He was seen driving it,didn't like it and said,according to an old ACD Newsletter
that he had a good Duesenberg and they wanted too much for that one.Al Ferrara told me in 1973 that he paid D Cameron
Peck $2500 for it in 1950. I asked Al about the paint scheme and he said it was he and his wife that came up with what it
is now. When he bought it he said it was "coffee with cream" tan and looked awful.
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The failure of SJ528 was not from over revving,it was while the car was decelerating coming
down Bridgeport Hill (US50)that the flat section coiled spring that kept the cam driving timing
chain tight broke and the timing was thrown out of sync and when a piston and valves came together
it broke the piston into pieces and rod broke thru the cylinder wall.I think it was on #2 but too
many years have passed.to be certain.Either way,it ruined the engine.I wonder if that engine
was ever repaired.The car was one of the 3 Brunn Riviera convertible sedans that were built
and was bought new by Jacob Schick of electric razor fame. Jim Schneck had the one that had
belonged to B.C.Hartline and is still a fine low mileage car with original supercharger.
I saw the 3rd one at Auburn after restoration by Brian Joseph. It was painted orange
and black and was a good looking car.SJ528 now J467 supercharged was for a time
in the O'Quinn collection in Texas and restored to new or better.
J467 was originally in a sedan that was mentioned in Elbert's book as belonging to a man
that owned an eatery in Chicago named Ernie Henderson. I parted this car out and helped
pull the engine which was in good condition.
We also stored another sedan that was new as SJ551 with a modernized front end and
bullet headlights and heavily skirted fenders.That engine now powers a phaeton that
belonged to the late Harry VanIderstine and replaced J435.
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65 years ago I was directly involved with Don Thompson and at the request of Harry Schulzinger
we made extensive alterations to SJ 528,After a major engine failure while coming off Bridgeport hill
in Clarksburg.Sj 528 was replaced by J467,bored out to 3.875 and fitted with Jahn's high compression
pistons and a Clark 5 speed transmission with the 5th gear being an overdrive.That definetly put that
car on the road as a major contender in cross country traveling. I think Harry used it for a bit over
20 years and finally sold it. At the time of the engine SJ 528 failure I was unaware we were in a car
being used with NO authorization by Mr. Schulzinger and I don't know if there were legal repercussions
or not. I am now the only one left alive that knows about that episode as far as I know and I am now 82.
Also,I have never come close to hitting the dash with my knuckles on any Duesenbeg.The transmission
was a relic when it was new and Art Brummer's idea of a Packard transmission is a good one as was the
5 speed Clark.
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A fine view over the hood of a MAJOR classic car from a time we hope will never be repeated.
Open cowl vent,air conditioner from 1930 and doesn't burden the battery
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My inlaws once lived where Harry VanIderstine lived in New Symerna but I don't recall where.
If you are going
to travel in England you might find and buy J159.It was made for driving
on the wrong side of the road. RHD and I think a Barker body of American style.
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Ed,
MANY thanks for the invite to Florida to help in wearing "Melvin"out.What became of the red seat covers
that were on the seats?I am glad this car is in use as it should be.My biggest concern with driving this
very valuable relic would be getting side swiped or worse yet,having tweedledee the Wonder Dummy
run a stop light/sign and roll it like happened to J175. Tweedle is out there and his numbers are legion.
Do you happen to know who has J540 now? Melvin owned it for years and in the winter of 1952/53
Jack Irwin and I brought it to Huntington and were chased all over the state by cold rains and flooding.
I am glad we had that powerful,heavy old car because a lesser car would have failed to get us back in
one piece.I was backing it into the garage and a drive line coupling failed and completely immobiized
the car. In the Summer of 1953 I helped Don Thompson remove the ENTIRE drive line assembly
including the springs and then Bill Evans and I loaded it into a Dodge pickup truck and took it to
Melvin and then we removed the Entire drive line assembly from J155,the chassis with low miles
I mentioned earlier.Later,in the Fall Don and I installed it under the old Judkins and took it back to
Melvin running strong.
I share the same opinion of Jim Schneck as you. I met him ONCE but he made a really GOOD first impression and
we all know there is NO second chance to do that.I called him off and on and he was always cordial and when
Igot the notice from Chris Summers of that terrible accident I was sick about it.People like Jim are as rare as a football
bat and should never be taken for granted.
Thanks again for contacting me and as far as I know I may be the only one still alive (82)that had experience with the
car now known,fittingly, as "Melvin"
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A friend,the one who introduced me to the Model "J" Duesenberg had a Citoen and
the thing that impressed me was that @1000RPM in high gear or maybe overdrive
it was running 60MPH on level ground.
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For a while,J561 was driven as a chassis by a man in Delaware listed in Elbert's book as Sumner Francis.
I remember Melvin Clemens talking about it many years ago.Melvin had a complete chassis in a garage
and it apparently was parted out over the years. It was a VERY low mileage former limo,Rollston if I remember
right and had under 15,000 miles on it. Wolff notes indicate it was J155 and had more than one body on it.
Harry VanIderstine got the head from that low mileage engine and called me to see if I had any information
on the engine and I told him about the extremely low miles. The short block sold later after Melvin passed away
and I have no knowledge of any of the rest of it.
Here is something else that may be of interest to some people.As may be fully known,Jim Schneck of Manitowoc
Wisconsin undertook the stunning task of reproducing the head for the Model "J",ready to install once the
cams,valves and other components were properly in place.Sadly,Jim died in a tragic,freak accident a while back.
He was trying to get his dog off the ice of a frozen pond,fell thru and drowned.
During a conversation with Jim at Auburn a few years ago he mentioned the fact he neeced a head that could
be cut in half to help establish water passages in the head he wanted to produce.Harry VanIderstine had such
a head which was nothing but trouble from SJ551.It was constantly cracking and the head from J155 was the
answer.I pointed Harry out to Jim and the new heads got made and I think Harry got the first one for furnishing
the pattern head. I am glad I was there and able to help in a small way with this project that made some of these
cars driveable again.
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I am going to see if I can find a lot of pictures taken at Auburn in years past.
The Derham sedan I saw went to Texas after the McGowan ownership.
It was black and the paint was chipped in places.
I am having visual problems now,cataracts,left eye repaired,right eye not
repaired and glasses that are totally useless for either eye.It may be
a while before I try to look for the pictures.The joys of becoming a fossil?
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Art Brummer's Duesenberg,the one I am familiar with was,I think J561 a fine Rollston sedan also called
the "6 fender car" by some.It was mostly original except for the installation of a Packard transmission
for easier shifting and an overall better unit.It was 1986 and me and my wife and two young sons were
walking into Eckhart Park and Art pulled up beside of us.The car was running so quietly that I saw it
before any of us heard it. It may still be owned by a family in the South but I won't give the name unless
they tell me I can. They got it after ownership by Dick Gold from Minnesota,now deceased. I hope this
helps.
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10 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:
I'm really enjoying this Duesenberg information chat. It was well over 35 years ago that Dad and I had the pleasure of sitting at an AACA Annual Awards dinner table with Al Ferrera and his wife, what a great guy. The McGowan brothers always brought a Duesenberg to the Ridgefield Meet, my favorite was J-444, with blackwalls. They had a very nice unrestored close coupled 4 passenger sedan, I wonder if it was the sane car I saw restored in a Pebble Beach video? Bob
.It WAS the McGowan brothers.The sedan was a Derham and I THINK was new sold to the Egyptian embassy in Paris. It had differently styled rear fenders
and was black.It was original,unrestored and I may have a picture if it.I did sit in the back seat and took a picture looking forward over the hood. It had a replacement
instrument in the dash and it may have been the altimeter.It had Marchal head lights which is not surprising.
I saw it again,later and it had been restored and was painted a deep maroon or burgundy and I THINK the owner's last name was Vick and he was from Texas.
The McGowan brothers had another "J" along with the sedan. It was a fire survivor and was rebodied with a Derham roadster body styled like J199.I think one
of the brothers told me it was really for a Lincoln It was carrying engine J160 and was painted green.
I do have the Ray Wolfe notes on these cars.Ray was the one.or so I've been told that started the "J"engine number ID system.I had a lot of my info published
in the ACD Newsletter back when it was more like a magazine in the early 1990's.
I am now 82 and I am going back over 65 years to dredge this informantion up so if someone has a better slant it won't make me mad at all.
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3 hours ago, alsancle said:
Bernie, with all due respect, Fred Roe’s book “Persuit of Perfection” is generally considered the Model J bible. Fred was a wonderful man and a great car historian. However, everyone should also own Elbert’s book too.
In the mid 1980.s I told Fred Roe about a man who bought a Duesenberg Limo and rebodied it with a Lincoln roadster
body and drove it like that.Fred contacted the man who living in Florida and he furnished Fred with pictures of the car
with the Rollston limo body and the Lincoln body. Fred said until I uncovered this man there were no known pictures of the
limo.I THINK it may have been J402 but don't take that as firm fact.I had a 1935 Packard convertible coupe with rumble seat
he tried to buy but I didn't want it parted out to get the body for his Duesenberg..
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On 7/13/2018 at 2:26 PM, JWLawrence said:
The Clark Gable Dusenberg was at the Blackhawk museum for many years. It had been touched by Bowman & Schwartz. Beautiful automobile. JWL
I think the real Gable Duesenberg was offered a while back for 10 million and 7 was offered and refused.Al Ferrera was here in Huntington WV at a
national car show but brought no car(s).He told me he bought that car from D.Cameron Peck for $2500.I asked about the paint scheme and he said
it was his idea and the original was what he called "coffee with cream" and looked like hell.This was in 1973 when I had this conversation.First prize
went to a beautiful 1934 Packard 12 with a LeBaron phaeton body.
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On 7/14/2018 at 11:06 AM, edinmass said:
Hi Bob! I had J-357 out to breakfast last Saturday, and have a V-16 out for coffee now. Come on down and we will take a bunch of cars for a spin! Your choice! Ed Minnie
AJ is a good friend......maybe I shouldn’t say that.......
Ed,I sent a couple of pictures years ago to AJ.I THINK they involved something to do with an intake manifold
on J292?,an SJ.
J357 was owned by Melvin Clemens when Jack Irwin and I put a clutch in it in 1951 or 52. Melvin was a DRIVER
and he thought nothing of running the tachometer off the scale.J396 was a scourge on the roads back then.
It had a Packard roadster body installed after the sedan (Derham?) was wrecked by a street car in NYC.(1936)?
Harry VanIderstine told me the frame damage was still evident when it was refinished.Engine J396 was damaged
by a rod coming thru the block years later and the can has had two other engines since then and I don't know the
"J"numbers but J202 MIGHT be one of them.Engine J396 was restored and it was in a pieced together "torpedo
phaeton"the last time I saw it.I keep no track of what's going on with these cars any more but have memories of
personal experiences with them that few living today can remember.
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21 hours ago, cahartley said:
I can't argue with that.
On the other hand if a car is never seen does it matter?.......
I doubt if E.L.Cord and Fred Duesenberg had in mind lugging these cars on trailer.
Once while at Auburn,maybe 25 years ago a Derham (J164)was driven in from
Connecticut and the owner was asked WHY.His reply was "It's to heavy to
carry". I complimented him on the fast response.This car then was unrestored
and reeked of mothballs.I think I might have pictures of it.
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If memory serves me right didn't this car have a free wheeling device or some similar contraption
that didn't work very well.I recall an article in AQ about Captain Whitell and his Model "J"s and he
apparently had problems with all of them such as engine failure on the LWB speedster.Anyone
else have anything to add.
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25HP and timed from 0-60 with a calendar.
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On 7/7/2018 at 5:36 PM, jeff_a said:
Now eligible for Hershey with the last coming out about 1992. The Yugo was a vastly superior car to a 1968 Subaru 360. Trying to say something nice...
The Subaru below was f/s @$3,900 on BringATrailer a few years ago. A former 360 owner quipped that you got the performance you'd expect from a 25 h.p. motor, but the dirt bike soundtrack almost made up for it.
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25 minutes ago, alsancle said:
Hey Bob,
Welcome to the forum! I hope you hang around and participate as you have some great history and stories about the cars, especially Duesenberg. I do know some pretty wealthy guys that drive the cr*p out of the very expensive stuff. I also know some guys that are not so wealthy that never take their cars out! So I think there is a full range.
A.J
A.J.
Thank you for the welcome.If I can help I will be glad to.Duesenberg cars and Long Range Muzzle Loading Rifles are my main
hobby interests.
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On 7/13/2018 at 5:50 AM, wayne sheldon said:
I could go to a dollar ninety seven cents!
Think that could work?
Only if it were in currency backed by precious metal, NOT Federal Reserve notes.
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On 7/13/2018 at 5:50 AM, wayne sheldon said:
I could go to a dollar ninety seven cents!
Think that could work?
Only if it were in currency backed by precious metal, NOT Federal Reserve notes.
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On 7/13/2018 at 5:50 AM, wayne sheldon said:
I could go to a dollar ninety seven cents!
Think that could work?
Only if it were in currency backed by precious metal, NOT Federal Reserve notes.
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2 hours ago, trimacar said:
I believe the record for pre war is the 1931 Duesenberg Model J long wheelbase coupe, the one with the polished (stainless??) top. $10,340,000.
One would think the Cooper car would beat that, but it's a crap shoot up in that rarefied air of "money is no object, the object is the object".....
The Whitell aluminum top Murphy bodied coupe.Went to a German industrialist for over 10 million$.Must be nice to write a check and have
the bank bounce instead of the check..
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The whole hobby is nothing but one big auction.Does anyone drive these cars
or is it just a money hustle?
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to travel in England you might find and buy J159.It was made for driving
Cooper Duesenberg SSJ at auction
in Auburn Cord Duesenberg (ACD)
Posted
Matt,
I also read in some auto magazine years ago that Gable's wife Carole Lombard?? drove it,didn't like it and left it at a sports car garage in LA.Maybe true,maybe not
but it adds a bit of spice to the story. You are SOOOOO right about time flying.When I was young it staggered by on 3 broken legs now it travels in a Ferrari or
maybe even an SSJ. I am now 82 and hope to share as much as I can remember with a degree of accuracy with any who might want to know about whatever
subject I can help with.I am "retired" machinist and sometimes tool maker and over the years I accumulated some machinery,lathes,mill,drill presses and saws
for hobby purposes and I am still active in that little shop.About 25 years ago I met Ted and Gerry McPhail from Canada and Ted was restoring a "J"that had
engine J452 when new and Ted managed to get J105 to install in it and found the bell housing for J452 in Maine.I made shackle bolts,bushings and most if
not all the acorn head nuts and bolts found on a "J" engine.Quite a task but he was happy with the work I did.Sadly to say,he was stricken with a vicious form
of Leukemia called Multiple Myaloma and it took him out of this life.His first wife,Gerry had passed from stomach cancer earlier and I suppose his second
wife sold the Duesenbergs (2). J452 was said to be the only Willoughby body on the "short"142.5 inch chassis.It had beautiful wood work as I recall.I don't
know anything about the 2nd "J" but Ted told me some knucklehead removed the roof and all 4 doors fell off of it.That had to be a hoot and giggle of the
first magnitude.