karguy12
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Posts posted by karguy12
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3 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:
You describe it as having a plastic body, do you know what kind of plastic? Fibreglass reinforced polyester resin became available after WW2, Plexiglass was available just before WW2, I don't know what was available before the mid 30s unless it was Bakelite or celluloid, neither suitable for making car bodies.
A December 1941 article in Popular Mechanics was about a guy named Russell who used the exact same construction technique and similar materials and plastic to make his plastic car. His car was very awkward and not well designed or refined. He was an associate of Preston Tucker and Tucker was big into plastics pitching it to the military to try and land a contract. The plastic that is on my car looks a lot like Bondo, but Bondo was not invented until 1955. My 1937 Adler Lemans race car has plexiglass (Perspex) windows in 1937.
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37 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:
Here is a previous post on the same automobile.
I've been really trying to make MY post about mechanically sourcing parts and rebuilding a Pierce Arrow engine for the sole purpose of NOT having this turn into a pissing match about what my car is or is not. So, why are you posting this here?
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6 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:
I'm posting this as constructive criticism, why start rebuilding the engine an not the body? The body is the unique part, pouring ten grand or whatever into an engine isn't going to make the vehicle any better. If the engine was totally rebuilt by Labor Day 2022 how long with it take to have the chassis and body ready for the first break in run?
The way the car is constructed, it is cage over the original frame. The body is not removable from the frame without cutting it off. It is much easier to restore it mechanically without the body covering in the way. Then the body covering will be fabricated over the restored chassis. As a restorer, I have always completed mechanical/frame before body/paint.
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The starter mechanism is still intact. ALL controls were extended to place the driver's seat just in front of the rear axle.
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1 hour ago, Avanti Bill said:
Looks like a tach drive to me.
That is what I always thought as well. So, then the question is what was the original application? Did PA's have tachs and if so, what were their mechanisms like?
Or was it hand fabricated to allow the aircraft tach in the dash to operate accurately? -
57 minutes ago, Barney Eaton said:
I am going to offer a wild guess.
Looks like it has a shaft coming off the water pump, there is a lever mechanism above that moves something.
You also said you have not seen it on other PA engines.
Seem like there were a number of fire engines make with PA engines.... this might be the drive mechanism for
the siren.
The mechanical lever does not seem to have any connection to the aluminum box.
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43 minutes ago, SC38dls said:
Karguy12, may I ask what university is going to help and where you are located. I’m not a mechanical genius but have rebuilt a number of engines and would love to help with this project if you need and want it.
dave sedit ps - I’m old and slow but like that goofy bunny I just keep going.
Right now I have only a tentative offer to assist in the aerodynamic study. It is based on a students doctorate thesis on the history of aerodynamics in automotive design. I would not want to jinx it, as he and I are so far excited about the project.
I would love help, technical assistance, advice, parts scavenging or anything that gets me closer to seeing this thing back on the road.-
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I'm looking to identify this specific part circled in red. It is currently on a 1931 Pierce Arrow engine. I am wanting yo know if anyone has seen a similar part or knows the original application for this part. I have not seen this on any other Pierce Arrow engine I have seen in person or photos.
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Has anyone seen one of these on a Pierce engine before. Or any engine?
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1 hour ago, trimacar said:
C'mon guys, this car was discussed ad nauseum in the past, why don't we stay off the topic of the car itself and try to help the guy get the engine going.
As Ed states, Pierce engines are, unfortunately, expensive to rebuild. I have a rebuilt engine in my Model 43 phaeton, but even with that I have a good spare engine sitting in the corner of my garage (no, not for sale, though if someone needs a 1937 Packard engine I can fix you up!).
karguy12, have you joined the Pierce Arrow Society? If you do, there's a directory of people and companies who make and sell parts for that marque. Your first task should be to get the engine out of the car, take it apart, and analyze what needs to be done. Usually rods may need babbitt work (although some people modify them and put inserts in), usually mains are OK unless something unusual has happened, there's a LOT of bearing surface with 9 main bearings.
DON'T use pistons from the company out west which sounds like a breakfast food, I'd recommend Arias, a little more expensive but at least they work and they are beautifully made.
Second the motion on Olsen's for gaskets.
Good luck on the rebuild........as mentioned, have your checkbook ready, good used cars come cheaper than Pierce rebuilds....
Again, thank you for the very helpful information. I would buy a running used engine. But I am also interested in seeing if there are any internal modifications to this engine to go with the 4 carbs. Any porting, head shaving, boring, etc.
Is the exhaust manifold on my engine stock for this model? It does not look like the ones I've seen on 1931 engines.
I will join the PAS. I have not in the past due to the expectation of more people like Studemax. People that tell me there is no information about my car, then proceed to tell me all about what it is not.As the restoration proceeds, I will be taking a "forensic" approach to the car, examining and documenting every detail. Hopefully some of the construction details will shed light on its creator.
I will also be working with a university's design and engineering department to make a clay model for wind tunnel testing to see what the drag coefficiency is to compare with other cars.
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3 minutes ago, alsancle said:
I think it is great if you can restore it. It has a pleasant shape and will be pretty cool running. As long as you stick with your known facts, I think you will find the forum members to be very supportive.
Good luck!
I've always stuck to fact. In the case of this car, most of those facts are just connections. Like a spider web of information. They lead, they point but they do not come to a precise conclusion. Yet. But I invite anyone to prove me wrong by offering the $1,000 reward for proof of who built it. I'm open to any new information and will track down any lead. But for the next few years, the focus will be to revive the car as-built.
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8 hours ago, Studemax said:
Oh, dear god! That thing again. I first looked at this monstrosity nearly 20 years ago. It's been on American Pickers. Multiple magazines and websites have done features on it, trying to find any real history on the beast. In 20 years, there has been no proof, zip, nada, nothing but conjecture and BS. Lots of speed historians have tried to confirm how it came to exist. There is nothing. This is someone's pipe dream that went up in smoke before it turned a tire in anger.
"This is someone's pipe dream that went up in smoke before it turned a tire in anger."
More conjecture and BS? lol Are you saying the car burned? What facts do you base your opinion on? I only showed photos of the engine for the main purpose of keeping opinions like this out of my thread. You can always count on somebody to post the hate. I'm bringing the car back to life.-
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6 hours ago, Grimy said:
The 1931 model 43 takes a Delco 660-P distributor. The larger series 41 & 42 use the Delco 668-E (also all 1929s and 1930 models A&B, but the caps for 668-E are generally unobtanium--the Pierce-Arrow Society did a run a few years ago and promptly sold out, including one to me 🙂 You may be able to use a Delco 662-J found on Pierce 8s 1933-36.
Gaskets are easy--Olsons. I've bought stainless valves from Egge, and they were on the shelf there. Be sure to test the valve spring pressure, but an easy solution is that Chev 350 valve spring shims work very well on Pierce 8s.
Thank you sir. Appreciate the fine on point information.
Does anybody have one of these distributors for sale?
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So, back to the mechanical rebuild questions. What distributor would I need for this engine and who sells gasket sets or rebuild parts?
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24 minutes ago, alsancle said:
How did you find out it was plastic?
It is still on the car in several places.
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54 minutes ago, Gary_Ash said:
The Pierce 366 cu in engine has many parts interchangeable with the 1929-33 Studebaker President 337 cu in engine (3.5" bore x 3.375" stroke), though even those parts may be hard to find now. The four-carb setup is a bit like Studebaker used for the 1932-33 Indy cars but Studebaker had vacuum balance tubes between the four inlets. The Indy cars used Winfield or Stromberg EX-32 carbs.
It might be easier to make the new body from aluminum. You have enough pieces to transfer dimensions to a new wire form.
Studebaker 337 cu in engine in the #37 Indy car with four Stromberg EX-32 carbs and copper vacuum balance tubes.
Interesting set up. Looks familiar. The body was originally plastic. Perhaps the first plastic car. I can't find any earlier. So I am going to replicate the original process using more modern materials.
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Some. Nothing concrete. Haven't been looking in years. But I've closed down my business and retired so now I am wanting to take on this project. Still offering the $1,000 reward to anyone who can prove who built it. But in the mean time I am going to start the restoration and document it on its own Youtube channel step by step, including the fabrication of the plastic body in the original manner.
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2 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:
Can you post a photo of the intake manifold?
Bob
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Trying to identify this specific Pierce Arrow engine. I have googled the casting number and came up with nothing. Perhaps I am not reading it correctly. It is supposed to be a 1930 motor and has a date casting of K-8-5. I am considering rebuilding it and am wanting to look up parts prices and availability, but I want to make sure I am seeking out the correct parts. It is missing the distributor and all four carbs. It has a custom 4 carb intake on it.
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The story on how this exact car inspired the 1963 split window Corvette
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I agree. They only needed a futuristic roof to put on the XP-87 and they went back in time to get one. I am sure that they did their homework as David Holls was very familiar with the Adler car, the designer and the history, Including being designed by Paul Jaray with the use of the Messerschmidt wind tunnel. Jaray's designs were also pirated for the Chrysler Airflow. Having a roof design that had already been wind tunnel tested may have appealed to them too.
I had emailed you the GM Tech center photos because I thought you would get a kick out of them.
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I know this is an old thread, but the topic of this Adler being the inspiration for the 1963 Split Window Corvette has been revived. I recently saw the attached article by noted author and illustrator K. Scott Teeters. After reading his article and knowing that he had come to this conclusion all on his own without knowing anything about my story, I reached out to him to offer him what I knew. He was excited about the prospect of having been right all along and is now in the process of publishing a new story about the connection. In doing his research, he reached out to GM Heritage and they were actually able to locate some of the actual photos of my old Adler AT the GM Tech center from 7-28-1959, at the same acknowledged starting point of the Split Window project.
The photos are fascinating. Especially the one from the rear with the photographer's feet showing because he is laying on his back on the ground and shooting the photo from between his feet. Clearly he was trying to capture the design of the rear of this car. So this is actual proof that this Adler WAS at the GM Tech center where the 1963 Split Window was developed and it was there at the exact same time as the Corvette Split Window development was started. It is not really plausible that the Adler was literally out in the parking lot of the GM tech center on 7-28-1959 and that staff was taking multiple photos of the car and that this Adler had no influence on the design being sketched and clayed literally behind the same office windows looking down on this car. Enjoy!
Teeter Article
http://www.corvettereport.com/corvette-odd-ball-was-the-1938-adler-trumpf-rennlimousine-the-genesis-of-the-iconic-sting-rays-roof/
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The problem with the market is GREED.
Last edited by bubba; 1 Day Ago at 10:49.
I agree 100%. I bought my first car, a 1966 Plymouth Belvedere convertible for $90 and drove it home! So EVERY single car out there will sell to someone if the price is reasonable enough. When they DO get cheap enough, people will buy them and become interested in the hobby. When their friends drive in it or look at it, they will become interested. The only thing holding back the hobby is stogy old hoarders that think that their 1952 Plymouth 4 door sedan needing full restoration is worth a fortune.
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It's just that all of the electricity in the battery keeps Lincoln out of it.
Can Anyone Tell Me Anything About This Pierce Arrow Straight Eight?
in General Discussion
Posted
Henry Ford's plastic or "Soybean" car was from 1941. He most likely experimented with the materials long before that.