Guest 1956Packard Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 O.K. folks, here is your chance to impress with your sage advice or secret tricks.I've got a 1931 Packard Coupe (51,000 miles) that was driven into storage in 1953 and has not run since.I want to get the engine started. What would you do to prepare the engine to be started? (please don't say re-build it - that's too easy.)I have no clue what condition the engine is in.Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 There is no point in removing alot of parts until u determine if the engine is stuck or not. Remove the sparking plugs and pour your favorite (or T'pacman's femenin dew cocanut oil concockshun)) in the sparking plug holes. USE a suitable wrench at the front crank pulley or at the flywheel (which ever is easiest) and slowly rotate the engine by HAND. **** DO NOT USE THE STARTER *****. Turn the engine BY HAND about 8 full revolutions as long as it is easy to turn. IF u hit a tight spot GO EASY and GENTLY rock it a little bit back and forth. THE FIRST THING U NEED TO DETERMINE IS THAT THE ENGINE IS FREE TO TURN!!!!!!!!!!! DO that and report back. IF its stuck at any point then we we'll go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Make sure that the exhaust and intake are clear of any mouse nests, mud dobber nests etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Remove the fan belt. it has probably taken a set after setting for so many years. That can cause problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 The clutch disk has probably "welded" itself to the flywheel. We'll handle this problem later. BE SURE THE TRANS IS IN NUETRAL!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 The gas lines can be cleaned (if needed) by soaking in paint thinner or carb cleaner. USe the blowing string method to clear them clean. This method does not clean rust. But this is NOT needed to get the engine to fire. Move the car OUTSIDE away from combustibles (hell, i do it in the basement) . U can run the engine using a oil squirt can full of gasoline squirting it at the mouth of the carb. THIS METHOD IS D A N G E R O U S so use common sense precautions in doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 DO THESE FIRST: MAKE SURE TRANS IS IN NUETRAL. MAKE SURE THE ENGINE IS NOT STUCK checking it by HAND as i outlined above and that there is oil in engine even if its OLD oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 A car thats been stored INDOORS for 50 years shouldn't be jack shiit to get starterd and probably not stuck either. You're a lucky man to have the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigKev Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 One this subject I went out to start playing with my engine. I never touched ut as where it was in the old house there was no room to work on it. I just got the entire garage put away on Monday so now it has a entire 2 car garge to itself. Well the bad news, the engine appears stuck. I put a wrench on the front of it and it wont budge. Now I didnt go to crazy with it as I didnt want to get a knuck full of radiator. So I pulled out 7 of the 8 Plugs. Yes 7 of them, number six doesnt want to come loose, and I didnt want to force it so I just saturated it in WD-40 for the time been. The other plugs came out dry. No rust on the gapping side of the plug. I sprayed some WD-40 down the holes and just hand tightened them back in. All I have at the moment is a small squit can of WD-40. On most cars I am familiar with when you take the plug out you are looking directly down into the cylinder. When I look into the plug holes it stops less than an inch in on all cylinders. Maybe it was just the angle I was looking in at.The car sat outside for a long time I am sure. The person I bought it from claims it was driven to and parked about 3 years ago. It had a 12v battery in it, but the is a generator 6v Delco Remy 1102773. Hopefully after I pour some Eric-Juice down the cylinders and let it soak it was start moving again. There is oil in the pan I can see from the dipstick and the oil looks relatively un-burnt. The car was last registered in '86 out of El Mirage, CA. That is a very hot and dry area of the Mojave desert.So at least it's not eated up with rust. Fingers Crossed that it will loosen up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlK Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 All of the suggestions here have merit. However the concoctions all seem to take time to work. I will offer one that I know works in 24 hours. Pour white vinegar down each cylinder. let it set 24 hours and viola, engine will turn. This is from personal experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Geoff, Does your '31 Coupe have a Dome-light? If so, where is it located exactly and what type is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Dome light most likely got knocked off by a high heel one night.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Hey, the whole top of my coupe got knocked off by high-heels one night! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverghost Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 I think it WISE to heed SafeTFlex's warning to drop + clean the pan... Short Story... A friend found a mid 50s Olds Holiday that had been sitting for 35 years in the garage of his 90 y/o neighbor. He bought the car + towed it down the driveway to his house and poured 50% kero 50% Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders... When engine was free he drained the old oil + refilled with fresh oil...Checked ignition + replaced fuel pump with re-built unit then "Fired Her Up !!!" He tells me that the engine was noisey from the time it started...He let it run for about 20-25 min. He stated that the longer it ran the louder the noise!!!Why he continued to run this nailhead with this noise is MY QUESTION??? He finally decided to pull the engine and open her up... First thing he found... The oil pump pick-up was totally plugged-up with gunk,dirt,sludge!!! Second...The cam was now trashed!!! Third...The crank was now very badly scored and several bearing journals were a blueish color!!! His statement to me..."OH...I guess the engine neeed re-building anyway!!!" This MIGHT NOT have been the case at all!!!In my opinion he wrecked the engine by not first dropping + cleaning the oil pan + pick-up first!!! Would also have been a good time to check bearings (Rod + Mains) with plastigauge to see how much wear was there in the first place!! Some cars are easy to drop the pan in place... Some are impossible or at least impractical to do so in place...BUT... as SafeTFlex has warned...YOU SHOULD DO IT!!! This is a TRUE STORY... The engine re-build cost BIG BUCKS!!! All these problems might have been avoidable! A word to the wise should be sufficient!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Morbius Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Absolutely drop the pan , It's not a big job at all - Mt friend had a '48 Hudson that had'nt been run for 6 years. He dropped the pan and found a dead mouse stuck in the pan's baffle. Think what that would do to an oil pump! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> And if he just changed the oil a few times the mouse would not come out cause of the baffle. By the way Geoff- I would find it incredibly exciting to try to bring a [ lovable ] beast like an old Packard to life !!! Great good luck and live long and prosper ! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ..........Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Yes do pull the pan, it's also not that big of a deal to spend the $ on a complete gasket set, and tear it down completly if it needs it and clean it out completly. But if you get it unstuck it make the whole thing easier and less chance of breaking something even more costly, Stuck rings- blown Pistons, dirt rods& cam bearings, with a good cleaning you will at least know where the motor is and how realiable it will be in the future. One of my 54's was parked in 1959, Stuck big time, 3 weeks with diesel and atf fluid it would turn. I let it sit till spring (another 3months with diesel and atf) and took it apart, it still has the original bottom end bearings and rod bearings, as they did not have any marks on them, even the rings came free off the pistons. It did though get bored out +30 to get new rings and pistons and the rings had over 80 thou end gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1956Packard Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 I understand about pulling the pan - it was (is) going to be done. That is basic stuff.Now, this afternoon I pulled the head off to look at the cylinders. It gave me a very good look at all of the cylinders - esp three of them - from top down to oil pan. Yes, right down to the bottom. There were no pistons, no connecting rods, nothing - in three cylinders. The crank journals looked good from the top though. One cylinder was heavily scored - likely from the rough removal of a rod. The other 5 cylinders looked good though.I took a deep breath, turned off the lights, closed the door and went inside for a drink. Good thing I still have the 151 proof rum left over.... Anyone know where to get connecting rods for a 31 standard eight?How about a good re-building shop in the Detroit to Toronto area?Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(snip)It gave me a very good look at all of the cylinders - esp three of them - from top down to oil pan. Yes, right down to the bottom. There were no pistons, no connecting rods, nothing - in three cylinders. The crank journals looked good from the top though. One cylinder was heavily scored - likely from the rough removal of a rod. The other 5 cylinders looked good though.</div></div>Whoa!!! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />You are missing the internals of 3 cylinders!?!<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I took a deep breath, turned off the lights, closed the door and went inside for a drink. Good thing I still have the 151 proof rum left over.... (snip)</div></div>That sounds like an appropriate short term solution! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Now you have an Audi engine, I guess now you may have to sleave one cylinder depending on how deep the score is, and pistons and rings. Best remove the motor and completly tear it down, and shop around for a good machine shop that can tell you if it can be bored out to remove the mark or has to be sleaved. once you have that order the correct size pistons based on the over bore, Check with Kanters before to find out what the max size pistons they stock are and the increments from standard to max, normally +20, +30, to +60 they may have a +80. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Morbius Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 And the past owner said it ran before they stored it? They just didn't tell you HOW it ran ! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ...............Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigKev Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 We at least you know now why it was stored so many years ago. I am suprised they actually buttoned the engine back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverghost Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 STEVE: People will tell you anything!!! Sure it ran before they stored it...30 years before they stored it!!! This is just...Well I can't believe it!!! I know a guy who will stuff that mouse and guild it in bronze for him to use as a hood orniment!!! Poor Poor Little Mouse... Happy New Year to you STEVE!!! Did you buy that 3 million $$ Duesenberg town-car yet??? If so...I want a ride in it!!! With that Supercharger that I will sell you...at a Modest Profit!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Morbius Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Brad - Happy New Year to you - and everyone else !!!!!!!! By the way ....... I was contemplating giving him $3 mill for the Duesy - but he also wanted $50,000 for "each" tire 'cause they were filled with nitrogen by William Randolph Hearst himself , and that's just a little too rich for my blood ! ....................Steve <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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