Theromostat Liquid??? or Repair???

[Guest Silverghost]

I have an early Rolls~Royce (Springfield Phantom I 1927)that has a factory added thermostatic shutter unit. It consists of a thermostat water outlet elbow that replaces manual linkage to operate the shutters. My car now overheats and the shutters only open 40% (should run at 160-170*F . The elbow unit opens + it has some sort of special liquid in the thermostat unit. You can remove the flange-cover to re-fill the unit with special liquid. Where do I obtain this liquid??? How much do I use??? Does anyone repair these types of early thermostats???

Most later types were factory sealed with solder!!!This unit is not!!! Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!!!

Brad Hunter 1 215 947 4676

Huntingdon valley Pa (near Phiadelphia)

Silverghost1926@msn.com

[Friartuck]

Silverghost,

The liquid filled thermostat's that regulate the opening of the shutters used on model L Lincolns have their units filled with Methanol Alcohol. Look carefully at the incredients/contents of different dry gas brands. The one I found happen to be an off the shelf item in a drug store. These units were often soldered sealed as you mentioned, but the fact that you can fill yours is very helpful. I would suggest removing the unit from the car, filling it and testing it in hot water on the stove. I'm guessing your unit has sort of a bellows shape to it that permits it to expand. You might want to check it for leaks via air and/or using bright light in a dark room to look for light peeking through small pin holes. Realize what is happening here is that the alcohol is expanding under increased temperature, so I wouldn't fill it 100%, but rather 65-75%. Let us know how it turns out.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Fascinating !

The radiator vents on cast-iron radiators for single-pipe steam heating systems have a float inside them that is filled with an alcohol/ether mixture and sealed. The mixture is formulated to boil and "flash" into vapor at around 180 deg F, and this causes the float to expand and close off the vent hole...this allows steam to push the air out of a cold radiator, then closes-up when steam hits it.

When cars ran alcohol-based anti-freezes, thermostats were set at 160 deg F, to prevent boiling-off the anti-freeze...so I would presume that straight methanol would put you in the ball-park...

I wonder if "Denatured" alcohol from the harware store would also suffice ?

Good luck...the brother of a good friend has a '27 Springfield P-1 touring car...was built for one of the Baldwins of Baldwin Locomotive Works...gorgeous, impressive car !

[Guest Silverghost]

Thank's guys!!! I opened her up and it does smell like alcohol...Very old rusty 78 Y/o Alcohol !!! Not very much left!!! The old gasket crumbled up on me. I will make a new one... I can see how it might have flashed-off or leaked out!!! Searched around CVS, Home Depot,Pep Boys(Drygas), but can't find the proper Methanol Alcohol...Got some Ethyl Alcohol... Might try it to see if it works... I will put unit in a pan of water on the stove with stat unit and Turkey Thermo.(after all it's almost Thanksgiving!!!) and look for 160-170*F. Actually I have a very good lab thermo.so I will do this correctly!! I will let you both know how this works out!!!

Thanks Again!!!

[Guest Ken G]

I'm a little surprised no-one has made this point.

Old fashioned chemistry referred to a series of alcohols (particular combinations of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen) of increasing complexity: methyl alcohol (also called wood-spirit and poisonous), ethyl alcohol (which we drink), propyl alcohol, butyl alcohol and so on. For reasons lost on me, it is now fashionable instead to call the same chemicals methanol, ethanol, propanol and so on.

I don't know whether it is still true, but what used to be sold as a fuel for lamps and small burners (known in Britain as methylated spirits) was primarily methanol, with the addition of something to make it very unpalatable and some coloring material (since the alcohols themselves are clear liquids). So you might try hardware stores as opposed to car accessory places.

Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (Sab Francisco)

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Ken,

I'm no chemist, but I was always given to understand that potable alcohols were distilled from some sort of cereal grains and were part of the ethyl alcohol family...

Industrial alcohols were "wood" alcohol, or so-called denatured alcohols and are part of the methyl alcohol group and are quite poisonous.

Supposedly, alcohol-based anti-freezes, shellac thinners, torpedo and stove fuels were made from methanol to prevent "uses other than intended" (ie: folks drinking the hardware-store stuff in lieu of legal (read: taxed ) hooch)...

There may be other properties of methyl alcohol that make it better than ethyl for "industrial applications", but I don't know what they are...

(And now that I wrote all that, I think I wound-up just rewording what you had previously stated...oh well; may as well quit typing and have a drink ! )

[Friartuck]

I check the Material Saftey Data Sheets (MSDS) for both ethyl and methanol alcohols. The ethyl has about 44 mm of mercury (44 MM HG) pressure versus methanol which has a rating of 97 mm HG. I interpret this to mean that ethyl would have about half the pressure capability of methanol and its possible that ethyl may not work. Both have the same boiling point of 148 degrees F. The brand of dry gas I used was OSCO manufactured by OSCO Drug. Another source for 99% methanol is the industrial supplier McMaster Carr http://www.mcmaster.com Quart was about $13.00, although no idea what shipping would be.

[Guest bkazmer]

methanol, ethanol, etc are the actual chemical names vs. the wood alcohol, grain alcohol, etc. Methanol is still readily available as a lab chemical. Ethanol is denatured(made undrinkable)unless you get "tax stamp" grade. The common "rubbing alcohol" at the store is Iso-propanol. Methanol and Ethanol do not have the same boiling points - they differ by 23 F, but both boil before water.