Twin-Ultramatic

[trimatic]

Hello

I am a transmission builder in Chesnee S.C. Ihave just finished rebuilding a 56 twin ulta in a packard 400. When the vehicle is placed into hi range the motor stalls imediatly. It will also pull forward in reverse unlees you goto neut then reverse it will the engage fine. Today i went back through the valve body and mesured all the springs and coils all seem to be in order. I also reset the band adjustments all is in order. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

BTW this is not the first unit I have built all the others have worked fine. But this is the first one with the electric select.

Thanks in advance

Larry

[Guest Randy Berger]

I will venture an opinion here, which is all most of us can do.

If the motor stalls when placing into high range, then it sounds

as if the direct-drive clutch locked up in the torque convertor.

Does the same thing happen when putting the trans in "Drive" range?

As for the reverse shifting problem, make sure that the shifting unit

does not move or "flop around" when running through the shifting

pattern. The adjustment bolt at the rear of the shifter should be

snug, but do not overtighten as the casting is easily stripped. I

always found the easiest way to adjust the electric shift was to

drop the trans pan, pull the pin from the valve body link to the

inner lever. Then manually move the valve to reverse. Push

the R button to place the electric shift into reverse and then

loosen the bolt that secures the bracket to the back of the shifter

assembly.

This will allow you to slowly rotate the shifting assembly

until the hole in the inner lever lines up perfectly with

the holes in the manual linkage lever.

When they do, you should be able to insert the pin though

the linkage and inner lever. Snug the bracket bolt BEFORE

you insert the pin just to ensure that you have not moved

the assembly while tightening it. After you insert the pin,

have someone push the buttons in order P-N-H-D-L-R and

reverse them to verify the manual valve centers in all

the detents and the unit does not "hunt".

(I told you that guy was long-winded <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />)

Feel free to call me on the phone if you have any thing I

can help you with. Email me for phone number. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Good Luck

YFAM, Randy Berger

[trimatic]

Thanks alot guys I will check these out on Monday I was going to go work on it today but the wife gave a big resounding no on that one

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Other than a mechanical probem or being assembled wrong, What could cause the DD Clutch in Torque-Convertor to be locked up, and cause it to stall ? (in other words, what controls that Clutch activation?)

[Guest Albert]

the only way to really fing out what is happening is to put pressure guages on the right spots of the bell housing and inside the oilpan to really see what it is doing. Did you have problems with that part of it before? I did originally have a problem with the 54 Patrician with the lockup not dropping out when comming to a stop and stalling but a bottle of tramsmedic cleared that up. Have you checked that the reverse & low bands are not over tightened? which will cause an extra load to be put on the high range clutch.

[Guest Albert]

Could be the governor is stuck as that is what times the lockup in the converter which is also based upon the throttle position too, maybe that is not adjusted properly.

[Guest Randy Berger]

Good point Brian - I had to borrow an inch-pounds TW to properly torque the valve body bolts when I was searching for a problem with my T/U. The book is very specific on that point. By the way my problem was a bad rear pump caused by the shaft dropping down due to a bad bushing. The two sealing rings on the shaft had worn two grooves in the rear of the pump housing and it wouldn't hold pressure - stayed in LOW range regardless. Replaced the pump and have been smiling ever since. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest Randy Berger]

Brian, you are exactly right. Most rebuilders just look at a bushing and say it's OK. Packard's internal pressures depended on those bushings and worn bushings cause all sorts of shifting/control problems.

My friend Chris supplied ALL new bushings to the rebuilder who did his. When it was done, the builder gave him back several bushings, saying he didn't need to replace them. He hadn't mic'ed them, just looked and assumed. He wasn't doing anyone a favor - he just didn't rebuild it properly.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[trimatic]

I appreciate all the feedback Just a little FYI a banner kit was bought from midwest clutches gaskets and seals. After disassembly i found a bad stator bushing both bands were rough. Both bands and a complete bushing kit was purchased from Kantor in Boonton NJ..After going through the unit i pulled the valve body back off and measure the coils and free length on all the springs according to Packard manuel all these items are in the right place. The problem with running a retail transmission shop is I probly wont get back to the T\U till Saturday so don't give up on me I have got to pay the bills and the help...

Thank again

Larry

[Guest Randy Berger]

Larry, we are all just as interested in finding the problem as

you are. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> You seem to have covered the bases pretty well.

Albert had a good idea on the governors - they supply the pressure

for the direct-drive clutch. If one is stuck open it could allow

the pressure to engage the DD clutch. Whatever you find, please come

back and let us know the resolution.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Mr.Pushbutton]

A couple of things that might (or might not) help Larry--One of my Pushbutton customers has a Caribbean HT that suffered complete push button shut-down. He had not driven the car much after purchasing it, put it away for the winter and then experienced push button failure. I fixed the push buttons, and found the shift actuator to be out of adjustment to the trans. After a very careful re-alignment the trans was very erratic as to behaving properly in Drive (sometimes would act like "High") or High(would act like "Drive") Reverse was always good, and Park (the two extremes of travel of the actuator)was always fine. After a couple of test drives, and fine-tweaks, I figured that: the push button actuator was doing everyhing it was designed to do--rotate the control shaft to the desired position. It did that fine. The problem turned out to be excessive wear of the control shaft bore into the valve body. The local T-U guru went over the whole trans, finding and fixing other budding problems, but he felt the wear to the control shaft bores in the valve body caused the "non-compliance" of the trans. It worked wonderfully after he rebuilt the trans, and four years (and lots of miles/trips) later is great.

Brian, I think you are right about the T-U valve body. My former employer had a beautiful '56 Caribbean convertible. I drove it from his storage building to our shop one fine spring day, in preparation to take it to Perrysburg. The car never once left low gear. Not once (the trip was about 9 miles, all on surface streets). I very emphatically reported this problem to our chief mechanic, who either ignored, or forgot about this. He did not test drive the car himself. The bosse's wife drove the car, in a convoy to Ohio. 30 miles down the e-way the trans gave it up for the ghost, and the engine wasn't happy about running at high RPM's for so long, but luckily, no damage there. The trans fluid leaking out the trans was so hot that when the car was loaded on to our closed trailer, the drips set fire to the absorbent runner on the trailer floor. Well, Big Chief mechanic finally came out of denial re: the trans, and it came out and went to a local shop with antique experience. He went through the trans (how thouroughly we don't know) and initally it worked OK when installed back in the car. Not long after, it would shift fine when the trans was "cold", just after starting the car, but as you drove, or started and stopped, the shifts would come later and later (@ increasingly higher RPM's) until they wouldn't come at all, and the trans would again be stuck in "Low". We wondered if the valve body had been irrepairably warped by the intense heat of "the event"--any ideas?

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

There is something about the PB circuitry (i'm not sure exactly what it is yet) that will often cause the trans to shift into low range rather than D or H when D or H is pressed, especialy when comming out R.

The solution is to always "shift" from R to N and THEN to D or H.

My Executive behaves like this and Donald Taconnie verified that this was not an uncommon problem among the PB equiped cars.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

I believe it was some 3 or 4 years ago someone indicated that a diode was needed from The #6 terminal to ground on the PB relay. I have this post around here somewhere or maybe it is in the archives of this forum. The diode is supposed to prevent somekind of a feedback that causes arcing and burning of relay or contact points.

[Mr.Pushbutton]

Packard V-8, The symptom you describe sounds like inadequate tension (drag) on the actuator (adjusted via the large brass screw and jam nut on the foreword upper face of the actuator)which is causing over-travel after the desired position is reached and power is disconnected to the actuator motor. A small amount of "flywheel effect" can occur if the tension is too low. Too much tension will cause the motor to labor, and possibly trip the circuit breaker.

[trimatic]

Well folks my Packerd has left the building and I am happy to report the car works flawlesly.. The whole problem was a egged linkage and tired shift motor witch was not letting the detents work properly. I cant thank you all enough for all your help and advice It was a godsend again thanks all

Sincerely

Larry Shaw

Chesnee S.C. USA

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

DURING THE REBUILD PROCESS did u find any retro fit parts for the T-Ultra????

SUCH AS, any hydramatic plates or other brand of Bands or seals etc that will fit the T-Ultra????

[trimatic]

Found the parts such as a bushing kit two new bands at kantor in Boontoon NJ the packerd division was very helpful also found this link to a gentelman that sells units and hard and soft parts

http://www.ultramaticdynamics.com/improvements.html web page

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

ok, but during the course of the rebuild and inspection did u notice any T'Ultra parts that look like they resemble or could be replaced by parts from any other brands of tranmissions?????

[trimatic]

Sorry about that I should have read that twice I understand what you were asking. No not as far as i could see whaen I was hunting bushings I found none that would interchange or found any other parts except that you could use brass cruise o matic clutches in place of the high clutch but i belive this would create a harsh engagement problem

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

"... you could use brass cruise o matic clutches in place of the high clutch but i belive this would create a harsh engagement problem "

Thank you! Thank You!

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

About what year was the last Cruise-o-Matic????? Same a Merc-o-Matic???

[Mr.Pushbutton]

Trimatic--you mention a "tired" shift motor not going into detents all the way. I fixed a pushbutton unit on a Carribean conv. where the actuator would shift fine to certain gears, but blow the 30A breaker when switched to others. I figured out quickly that the problem was directional--it was Ok going CW, but required a much more torque to turn CCW. I discovered the grease inside the worm and sector section of the actuator had turned into a "non-lubricant" the consistency of bubble gum. I removed the shift motor (carefully) and was then able to remove the entire shift actuator, one piece at a time (It's a huge job to R&R the shift actuator as an assembly). I made a sketch showing the proper order of the various parts on the worm gear shaft, dissassembled the works, cleaned them of all hardened former-lube, re-coated the parts with new, fresh light grease and put 'er back together. It got happy in a hurry.It's been working fine since.

[Twitch]

Don't know any of the rest about the Ultramatic but we had a 1954 Mercury with a Merc-O-Matic. Saw a 55 recently and it had an auto trans but it wasn't in chrome letters as it was on the 54's body. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />