1955-1956 Packard V8 Question

[Mr.Pushbutton]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr PB wrote:

"The Achillies heel of the system is the contact fingers, located on the motor actuator down on the trans. I manufacture new contact fingers,..."

Do u make the contact fingers for the back of the push button unit up on the steering column??? </div></div>

No, I haven't needed to go there yet. there seem to be enough nos button assemblies out there that I would recommend (at this point in time) outright replacement of the whole button assembly. Someday the supply might dry up, and we'll cross that bridge when we get there. The automatic park relays are not plentiful, but even the factory eliminated those on late production cars. The shifting motor, part of the Autolite-produced shifting actuator is hard to find new. This isn't a big problem right now, as they seem to be a very good motor that holds up well. I have wondered for a while now if that motor is used on some FoMoCo product made in '55-'56. Seat motor?, Antenna?. I can get the brushes for that motor, and in one instance had to make a new fiber-board insulating brush holder for one client who pulled the motor off the actuator (which will pull the commutator out of the brushes) In trying to get it back together, he broke the brush-board, cracked it in half. I replicated it out of the identical material, and with the other procedures had him back strong, for long. John

[Guest Randy Berger]

Brian, I've seen the document that shows how to eliminate the auto-park feature by removing and taping the wire, but I never saw anything stating that the relay itself was eliminated. I have most of the TSBs, but must be missing that one. My 400 is relatively late, but still has the relay. I've heard that although the system was adapted to Edsel, it was all new tooling to cast and stamp the parts. That sounded a little far-fetched but I kept it in the memory banks anyway. One good hint that I received was to file off the contact edge of the contact segment so that any sharp protrusions would be eliminated and not cut into the fingers. Perhaps Mr. Pushbutton can verify this?

The mounting of the unit on Edsel's was superior to Packards and I have drawn up a way to move the whole motor assembly forward so that it is easier to access. Fortunately mine works fine, EXCEPT when the pressure switch fails. I intend to place a toggle switch in series and in front of the pressure switch so that there is no electrical contact every time you stop at a red light or stop sign. I think that is very hard on that switch and it would last a lot longer if I do that. Of course in order to use PNR, you would have to flip the switch on. Packard or Autolite should have considered that in the design. Aint hindsight grand!

I corresponded with an Edsel owner who said that Edsel had the same kind of pressure switch - it didn't work worth a damn - and most owners bypass it. He said it was not shown in the schematics and only a push-button owner would even know it existed.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Mr.Pushbutton]

Here's a Paul Har---VEE type answer to the Edsel question. My Uncle worked for Lincoln-Mercury (1946-1978) and does indeed remember that when Packard folded there was an "open door" policy of instant emploment for any one from Packard, such was the respect over in Dearborn. He told me once that he used to lunch with guys working on the Edsel program (late '56-'57) and that another non-Edsel, ex-Packard guy joined them for lunch. He drove a Carribean, and they were fascinated by the pushbutton shift, and were really talking up it's inclusion into the "new car". They took his Caribbean to an engineering garage and put it on a hoist and studied how Packard accomplished remote shifting. Someone made the comment "we can't make it as expensive as this, we'll have to make it cheaper". They might have remembered it from the Futura show cars--but Detroit car guys have a pretty short memory for such things, and really like to think they invented everything. Ergo it's inclusion into the Edsel. I would love to hear what an Edsel scholar has to say about this.

It is my understanding that Autolite destroyed the tooling from the Packard units shortly after Packard, as we knew it left Detroit and stopped buying same. This would explain the completely different appearance of the Edsel unit. Ford would have undoubtedly used the Packard tooling and design, to realize the savings in tooling. They would have needed to make a different contact bridge, spaced to the detents of the Ford tranny.

Yes, there is a ridge at the rear edge of the contact segment, left over from stamping and part of my routine is to first file it smooth,put a slight champfer to the newly flattened edges, then sand with fine emery cloth, then blow clean with compressed air (spray can brake wash works good, too). I have seen contact fingers that are uniformly "eaten" where they ride on the contact segment. None have gone so far as to weaken the fingers, but someone out there may have a high mileage driver that has.

I think that Packard rushed push botton control into production on the '56 model cars in an effort to gain the distinction it offered from a marketing perspective. The V-8 cars are riding on esentially a 1951 chassis (somewhat modified?) and this explains the inaccessibility of the complete pushbutton actuator, and why complete R&R is such a time consuming job. I have worked on two cars where some corner grease monkey blue-knifed the X-brace from around the actuator, allowing easy R&R. This did not have a noticable effect on the frame's strength laterally, but would be a serious liability in a head-on crash (scary thought in any older vehicle). Methinks that if they had weathered '56, and gotten money for the '57 Predictor-based line, with a new, lower chassis that there would have been an allowance for the push button actuator, and who knows, perhaps a redesign of the shift actuator.

As to the pressure switch, I honestly have not had much trouble from mine, or any customer's. One time I encountered a bad one, replaced it with an NOS unit and the system worked fine. If there is a lot of failure going on (that I don't know about) it could be that the diaphragm inside the switch is failing from age, in which case we are going to have to find a NAPA type substitution from another car line and vintage. The pressure switch is a good idea--sure you can shunt it out, but it's good thinking from a safety standpoint, and hey, it protects the T-U from any needless torture.

I would like to see what you have drawn up re: moving the motor forward. Years ago (after my own stuck-in-reverse crisis) I envisioned a motor sealing endcap/mounting bracket, mounting the existing motor forward where there is ample room, out of which a flex shaft runs to a bearing cap that would screw onto the location where the motor currently sits, with the mating slotted collar like the motor armature has. To this end I was hoping to find a surplus worm and gear assembly taht would allow me to run the motor flex shaft through the gear, and have some kind of "emergency bail out" shifter, perhaps a crank that could be inserted through a covered (soft plugged) hole in the floor board. I fixed my own car, and (knock on wood!) have not had any problems since, and that was the end of that idea. And now you know the rest of the story. John

[WCraigH]

Excellent arcania about the Packard "piano" shift! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I've got two of the the pushbutton shift assemblies from both of my 1956 parts cars. I'll use one on my Panther (maybe for a 700R4) and Paul has removed the one from my 1956 Exec 4dr parts car for use on his 1956 Exec 2dr resto. I have both T-Us and both servo assys on the tranny, but I don't know if any of it actually works (yet).

I'll be in contact, if it doesn't.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Mr PB wrote:

"there seem to be enough nos button assemblies out there that I would recommend (at this point in time) outright replacement of the whole button assembly. Someday the supply might dry up, and we'll cross that bridge when we get there."

Thats NOT been my analysis. How many such PB assemblies do u have that we can analyze???? I have 3hree. One of them is unmolested factory with 34K miles that has failed. 2wo others that look nearly NOS that have failed in the same way. The contact fingers on the back break off.

[Mr.Pushbutton]

Packard V-8, I have not experienced this widespread failure. Those fingers are fairly thick, and stout. I could see where the solder "blob" at the base could affect it's durability. I would buy a NOS unit, and start fresh. Joel Ray has them new-in-the-box, and if your three are that defective, you could start fresh with one of these. I have done a number of these units, on and off of cars, and have "talked down" a number of perplexed owners and have yet to encounter this problem. John <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Look at the BACk of the PB unit. Look closely at the contact fingers closest to the horizontal centre line of the PB unit.

Directly at the point where the contact fingers are bent under the buss bar the the contact fingers are against the buss bar causing them to bend over the top of the bus bar thus putting a strain on the factory designed bend. This causes them to break at the factory bend.

Thats how all 3hree of mine are manufactureed . The previous owner of my very original and well maintaned Exec with 34K miles when i got it told me that the PB unit gave trouble at about 20K miles. SO, unless there was just a bad batch of them and i got 3hree of them ( all 3 from different sources) it is somewhat of a moot point to keep replacing the unit with NOS units if they have the same manufacturing flaw. MY IDEA is to CORRECT THE PROBLEM.

I'll try to post a pic later on if my camera will focus that close.

Wanna talk oil pumps???? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

[Mr.Pushbutton]

In response to V-8 Packard re: the push button selector switch assembly contact leafs breaking--I went through my stock of these and found one where breakage has occured as you describe. The contact leaf has a sharp 90 degree bend at the bottom, where it mounts to the mating riveted solder lug (all units made are manufactured this way). It is easy to see how this could be brittle. The one unit I have that is broken in this way looks like it went through the war. One unit had, what I believe to be a good solution to the fragility of the contact leafs. Someone very carefully soldered a 45 degree angled "blob" of solder between the upright portion of the contact and the base/wire terminal lug. This places the bending stress all along the soldered portion, relieving the stress from the right angle bend. If you are good at soldering, this would be easy to accomplish. Abrade the surface to be soldered with a fine wire brush(I would use the small rotary wire brush attachment on my Dremel tool), use flux, a good size iron (50W or so--get in fast, get 'er done fast and back out), and some good rosin core solder. the rule here is that a little goes a long way--don't over do it.

If that doesn't work for you, there would be ample room inside the steering column switch assembly housing for a board (piece of phenolic material) to be mounted on stand-offs, behind the OE switch unit that simply has 6 shallow momentary contact push buttons (available from an industrial or surplus supply house) that would be mounted at the same centers as the existing buttons so as to be "pushed" by the black plastic plunger at the rear of the button (the one with the shorting clip). This switch would need to be able to handle the current draw of the shift relay coils, and repeated operation. I could develop such a thing, if the need grows. John

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

<img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> (see attachment)

[1955packard]

I purchased my ?55 Constellation as one of 3 junk yard specials. Three of us went in together bought the cars and each got the Packard they wanted.

After fully restoring the Connie it was driven to the San Francisco PAC National. When the engine was rebuilt the mains were turned .010 under, the rods were standard size and polished, the cylinders were still standard. A Packard International rebuilt oil pump w/o vacuum pump was installed, new rings, timing chain and gears, cam bearings, valves ground, main and rod bearings and lifters. ?Ole Blue ran strong and fast.

From Dallas, ?ole Blue was driven to Detroit, Galveston, Kansas City, Ashville, NC by way of Swansboro, all at 65 to 70+ highway speeds including numerous short trips. The Packard engine is great on the highway and around town. I was putting around 3,000 to 4,000 miles a year on the V8. With all this going for it ?ole Blue spun a rod bearing after 40k rebuilt miles on the engine. The lifters were starting to make noise just prior to the failure, causing me to think the oil pump was starting to suck air. Upon tear down pump shaft was not broken, just a spun #3 bearing. Only the one rod bearing, the rest showed only nominal wear. Go figure?

Yes, failures do happen to great engines.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

something got into the crank and plugged up the oil gallery???

[Gus Hampson]

We have several Packard V-8's and all seem reliable and strong. We recently had one rebuilt localy by a reputable engine shop (a 352) and the cost including parts, machining, removal and replacement was less than $4,000. The engines castings were completely Magnafluxed while out of the car and no cracks or casting flaws were found. The rebuilder, a racing engine house, opined that 'whoever built this one meant for it to stay around a while'. He couldn't get over the block room between the cylinders. This engine is a '56 so the oil return pipe is on it. We have added this as a kit to the '55's. Mechanics regularly favorably compare Packard's V-8's to Cadillac's of the same era. All our cars are Twin-turbine Ultramatic's. We have never had a problem. If it "moans" it isn't being used enough and adding a quart of Transtune and some serious driving will fix it. Make sure it has all three gallons of fluid in it too. Regards, Gus Hampson. woodburyoldcars@msn.com

[Guest Randy Berger]

Gus, glad you are getting good service from your V8s. You said <span style="font-style: italic">This engine is a '56 so the oil return pipe is on it. We have added this as a kit to the '55's.</span> What exactly are you referring to? - the small copper pipe that goes from the oil pump pressure relief valve back into the sump?

YFAM, Randy Berger

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(snip) All our cars are Twin-turbine Ultramatic's. We have never had a problem. (snip) </div></div>

Gus: Not to nitpick, but in an attempt to be accurate and not mislead any casual Packard enthusiast, the official name of Packard's 1955-56 automatic transmission is "Twin-Ultramatic". This refers to the dual-range drive position, meaning low gear start or not.

While there are two "turbines" inside the torque converter assembly, all the blades are fixed position type. The really innovative thing about Packard's T-U and torque converter is the direct drive clutch, which locks up the converter above a certain rpm/speed/throttle value.

Buick marketed a "Twin Turbine" (trademark name) version of their Dynaflow automatic transmission in the late 50s and 60s for their upscale cars. It's a completely different animal than the Packard Twin-Ultramatic. I don't think it has a low gear and it has a variable two-position pitch stator (hence "Twin Turbine").

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have never had a problem. If it "moans" it isn't being used enough and adding a quart of Transtune and some serious driving will fix it. Make sure it has all three gallons of fluid in it too.</div></div>

Interesting suggestion about the Transtune. Others at this DF have suggested switching to the old Type-F transmission fluid to solve the "moan" and occasional surge under load.

[bernardi]

re the "oil return pipe".-- I have a couple of 55's and would be interested in learning more. My T-U does "moan", even with type F fluid. Haven't driven it far or hard,yet. Now in storage for the winter,it will be six months or so before it will get the treatment.