Tranny Conversions

[MBL]

Hello all. Tim Here. I know this has been beaten to death but I am looking to find someone who has used the UltratorqueII kit. I have a way to pick up a 727 tranny cheap and a friend who can rebuild one with his eyes closed. I will suggest that he does it with he eyes open but before I get into it I would like to find out how significant the vibration is and if this is something that has been remedied. Anyone?

Tim

MBL

[MBL]

No one has used this? Well I might just be the ginnie pig then. I called the # for the Ultra-torc II. I left a message. It is listed as "II" so maybe this is an improvement over the first one they made? Who knows. I will talk to the guy who makes them and see what he says. I will bring up the vibration problems that have been reported. The reason that I would be inclined to try such a conversion is that I have seen others use tranny conversions and they didn't have such problems. It wasn't with a Packard motor but I would think the main components would be the same and vibrations would occur for the same reasons. That being said I have installed things in a hokey mannor and got less than satisfactory performance from it. That could be the problem. Also as someone mentioned earlier about pulling apart the torque converter; vibration could have come from incorrect assembly of that unit rather than the concentricity of mating parts. Just a thought.

Tim

MBL

[MBL]

Alright here's the latest! I talked to the guy that runs the Ultra Torc II conversion business. Apparently this conversion is one that is an improvement over earlier conversions. I guess that is why the "II" is there. At any rate it appears that the kit comes with an adapter ring that goes all the way around the bellhousing. The earlier one was a half ring that could lend itself to a flexing condition. It includes a spool that attatches to the flex plate. It comes with linkage and the new selector dial for the dash. It also has the rear motor mount/tranny mount. All of the bolts are included and in separate bags to make sure the right ones go where they should go. Now to the vibration deal. I inquired with this nice gentleman about the vibrations that have been a complaint with past 727 conversions. The problem it seems is related to concentricity with crankshaft centerline. This may occur with some conversions and not with others. The culprit seems to be minute differences in tranny cases which allows the centerline to be slightly off. In order to rememdy this there are locating pins included. Upon instalation; one should check this concentricity using a (Dial Indicator Runnout). I have no idea what that is but a friend of mine does and he says thats no big deal. I guess you fritter around with this dial and several ofset pins until you get a measurement whose tollerance does not yield vibration. To me that seems like a logical and reasonable explaination. The reason I say that is because I know of someone who had swapped a 727 into an earlier Chrysler product and had a vibration problem until he dialed it in using these pins. Problem solved. In past Packard Ultra Torc conversions this was not addressed and hence the vibrations were reported. The price of the kit is $875.00. Do I think that is a bit much? I do. Do I think it will work? Yes; after talking to the guy it seems that he has a usable product. I just know that there are other conversions that consist of similar parts and cost half of that. Check the speedway motors website and take a look at the flathead/C-4 conversion. Its about $400.00. That is more what I would expect to pay for such matterials. Will I buy it? Probably. With the other options out there it appears to be the cheapest to me. They have got you between a rock and a hard spot with this type of thing. I can pick up a 727 at a local junkyar for about 35-50 bucks. I have a friend that can rebuild one blindfolded. The 727 has been reported as being bullet proof and in my neighborhood thats an added plus. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It seems Craig the "Conversion King" could make out really good if he were to make such a converson. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. Just a thought. With some luck and the cooperation of the junkyard gods we might be able to pull this one off. At any rate I will let you all know how it works out. So far: the kit is 875.00 plus shipping, it is an improved kit, it comes with hardware and pins to locate tranny and achieve concentricity therefore eliminating vibration. Some good info. Now we will see if it works.

Tim

MBL

[Guest]

Have you thought about updatong the 727 to the 918 which is the same as a 727 but has a 4th overdrive gear which, besides giving you great acceleration it also lets you cruise at 60 mph at 1700 to 1800 rpm. Another bonus is gas mileage goes from 12 or 13 to 18 at highway speeds. No sense wasting money on gas ..................... right? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> ...Steve

[Guest JT]

Don't know if it's a correct rule of thumb by I always thought you should dial indicate any bell housing that did not use dowels.

[RO]

My '55 Clipper Super had the 727 conversion when I got it a few years ago. It drives and shifts well. No vibrations. Uses no tranny fluid. Pulled a '50 Packard a few miles with it about 4-5 years ago. It is a little slow to go into reverse, but so is that in my '70 Charger with 174,000 miles.

[MBL]

Well apparently the casings could be slightly off. Which means that to get it right you would have to put in slightly offset pins to get it dialed in just right. Once thats done it is concentric and you should not suffer vibration. It also eliminates the trunion joint. I guess thats a plus too. Its good to hear that someone has used this and has had success.

Tim

MBL

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

instead of cutting up the trans or shaving the block why not make a ring that will bolt between the flexplate and torque converter????? Simple, relatively cheap and should be effective. One ring mite be made for several trans applications.

[WCraigH]

PackardV8: Unless I'm missing something in your suggestion, even with an spacer ring, one would still have to machine or adapter-fit the block or tranny case to mate one to the other since the bolt patterns and sizes are completely different. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Also, the whole assembly would be that much longer, which may exacerbate other issues like crossmember location and driveshaft adaption.

[Guest Albert]

One problem with adapter plates is that the Packard torque converter protrudes into the back of the motor by at least an inch and a half, and all the newer transmisions the the torque converter in resessed into the front of the tranni. If one could cut a 1/2inch plate to replace the rear casting that is bolted on the motor and then re mount the starter to the new plate. there was one person at the Packard nationals that had a 700R4 in his 56 even had the push button selector working, but did not get a chance to look at it.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

"One problem with adapter plates is that the Packard torque converter protrudes into the back of the ..."

Yes, thats exactly what the adapter ring would overcome. The idea is to just slap a stock hydramatic (or other auto trans of choice) up to the Packard block with a CASE adapter. This will leave a wide gap between flexplate and the torque converter. FILL THE GAP with an adpater ring that has a pilot init. It could be probably turned out of aluminumn, not a difficult task with a lathe big enuf.. Craigs commect about the increased overall length COULD be a problem tho depending on the trans used. The idea here is to avoid cutting the block or requiring intricate machine shop services for altering the retro-trans. Just a block to trans adapter(bolt-on) and a flexplate to torque converter adapter (bolt in).

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

I measured an 89 Caprice 4 spd automatic and it measures 32 inches long taken from the centre of the U-joint.

The T-ultra measures 33 inches long taken from the companion flange.

So, it looks like we have at least an inch to play with in making an adapter plate for the trans to block mating.

according to my other measurements a 3 inch ring big enuf in diameter to mate between the flexplate and torque converter would be a conversion plate at that point. I don't really like this idea but it just mite work and save alot of cost and time compared to other options available.