MBL Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Ok here's the situation. I will be doing your Treadle Vac change over soon. To me it only makes sence. You can't really see it and the added safety is important to me. I was wondering if the stoplight switch is something that would need to be changed. I noticed that cars with the Torsion ride have a different switch. Will this be a problem? Also if you use a dual resivior is there a proportioning valve that you would need to use? In my change over I will be using your measurements but I think I will look around the junk yards to find my unit as my funds are really low. Oh by the way I am not sure if you know but Autozone carries the wheel cylinders for our cars for $8.99 REAL CHEAP! Do you know where you can get cheap shoes? Or somewhere that relines shoes? <BR>Tim<BR>MBL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Tim: I changed my stoplight switch to a mechanical switch under the dash a few years ago. It was a simple if inelegant solution to the failure of the old one when I switched to silicone brake fluid. Also, what are the parts numbers for those brake cyl you got for the 55 Packard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBL Posted August 20, 2002 Author Share Posted August 20, 2002 Ok there is the front left 33220, front right 33221, rear left 33004, rear right 33005. They are all 8.99 except the rear left. Which for some reason is 9.99.<BR>Either way a good deal. I will be picking some up soon. <BR>Tim<BR>MBL<P>P.S. they are "Brakeware" brand so I don't know what that means. But they are the cylinders and not the kit. I saw them but did not buy them yet.<p>[ 08-20-2002: Message edited by: MBL ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 are u doing just the Master cylinder and power unit or doing the disk conversion too??? Where will u be getting the MC and power unit???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBL Posted August 20, 2002 Author Share Posted August 20, 2002 I will be keeping the drums all around. I will probably find a booster and MC together. Many of the Ford boosters have a standardized MC connection so I will probably have a choice in the matter of MC.<BR>Tim<BR>MBL<P>I will be checking the junkyards. There are many boosters that will fit the profile. Just gotta bring a measuring tape.<p>[ 08-20-2002: Message edited by: MBL ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Tim:<P>Re: stoplight switch. One of the local chapters of PI (and others) sells an inexpenseive conversion for the 3-prong switch (which is expensive). It's nothing more than a standard 2-prong switch and a "Radio Shack" relay. I mounted the relay inside the firewall to keep it away from heat. See PI Newsletter ads for address (I don't have one available, maybe <BR>another chatter can supply same or I can mail you a copy of the wiring diagram if you feel like doing it yourself). In any case, neither switch is a problem with any MC/booster because it merely senses line pressure. If yours is working, then leave well enough alone. You can tell if it's working because when you come to a stop, the T-L should NOT level while the brakes are applied.<P>ADDED: Here's where to buy that 3- to 2-prong conversion kit: Gary Russell, 11073 Lyon Road, Delta B.C V4E 1J4, phone: (604) 596-4604, price $25.<P>Re: dual reservoir proporting. The front and rear wheel cylinders are different diameter (front is bigger) which handles the proporting. Also, the front brakes do 60-70% of the braking anyway. If you get a rear lockup on hard braking (and your brakes are good), then Master Power Brakes (among others) sells a pressure reducer valve to cut down on the rear pressure, although I doubt you'll have that problem. If you get lots of nose dive on hard braking, then that indicates the rears aren't doing their part of the job. With T-L, your Packard should stop pretty level due to the anti-dive built into the rear suspension torque arms and front end geometry.<P>Re: junk yard dual MC/booster. I believe that Keith (PackardV8) fitted a Honda MC/booster to his 1956 Exec. Maybe he can chime in here with details. Make sure you go with a remote-fill reservoir that you can mount on the inder fender because the steering column masks the top of the MC.<P>Re: brake shoes. If you're talking about seniors (Pat or 400) with 12" drums, then I believe that late 1950s Chevy 3/4-ton truck rears are the same. I took mine down to Nevada Brake & Auto and the old guy behind the counter matched them (their P/N #R33, $70 incl arcing labor). You can probably do the same with the fronts (take yours to an old time local shop), but before I converted to discs in the front, I got mine from Kanter. Don't go that route! Besides being $$$, they have to be riveted and arc'd, something which few shops do anymore! My Hollander Interchange does NOT list an equivalent, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. Maybe another chatter can give you more info.<P>Re: Wheel cylinders from Autozone. Can you post the #s for other chatters? <p>[ 08-20-2002: Message edited by: Craig LV ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 i am using a set up similar (or maybe identicle) to Craigs. It is from a Honda civic circa 1992. Has the identicle looking 'Masters' tag. It has an 11/16 cylinder.<P>However my set up does make for a somewhat hard brake pedal due to the fact that the Packard pedal does not afford the leverage that the Honda pedal does.<P>i might need to swap to 1-1/4 front wheel cylinders to offset the effort change. HOWEVER, the Honda pedal travel is not nearly as long as the TV set up.<P>Nonetheless it works just fine. BUT, harder to push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBL Posted August 20, 2002 Author Share Posted August 20, 2002 Do you know who makes the Honda booster? Is it a bendix or made by Honda? I noticed that a 90 something mustang has a booster with a diameter that is close. <BR>Tim<BR>MBL<P>P.S. I would like to see a wire diagram of the switch that you made. The way I see it if it is cheap enought to make new then I will.<p>[ 08-20-2002: Message edited by: MBL ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 the Honda MC i am using is Made by Masters.<BR>Send me your e-mail address and i will send u pics of my set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 CORRECTION: the POWER UNIT is made by Masters. It has a Masters blue tag on it. The master cylinder itself i do not really know who made it. THE ENTIRE unit came from a Honda Civic and I removed it myself. Mc has 11/16 on the side. really need about a 5/8 like the TV uses.<P>Let us know your findings. Thot u found a Ford set up to work???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBL Posted August 23, 2002 Author Share Posted August 23, 2002 I will email you when I get chance. Thanks for all of the info. I think I will go to the junkyard tomorrow if I can get someone to go with me. More for a fact finding mission than anything. At this point again I haven't checked if the brakes even work but I figure that if this conversion makes sence for safety then its for me. Also I am on a quest for a carb. Would anyone out there have a spare one? I have a line on one now but any help would be great. Funds are thin, way thin.<BR>Tim<BR>MBL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 while you're at the junk yard keep an eye out for a VACUUM pump. Many of the 82-87 'X' body Gm products used them on the 4cyl models. You will need a vacuum pump to run the wipers if your OIL pump should require modification. This is another mod that needs to be researshed on the 55 and 56 Packards. I have not yet been able to find such a vacuum pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 Re: vacuum pump for wipers. Or one could convert the vacuum-actuated motor to electric by using a 1955-57 Chevy electric one (getting hard to find and also $$$) or buying a conversion kit (about $185):<P><A HREF="http://www.1956PackardPanther.com/index-page18.html" TARGET=_blank>Eletric wiper conversion for 1951-56 Packard (see May 1, 2001 entry)</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBL Posted August 23, 2002 Author Share Posted August 23, 2002 Does the Packard vacuum wiper motor typically not work? <BR>Tim<BR>MBL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 Tim: When I bought my 55 Pat about 4 years ago, the vac wiper motor barely worked. I traced the problem to leaking gasket between the two motor casing halves. There are companies which can repair it (see Hemmings, for instance). But, vacuum motors never did work that good in the first place. Packard tried to patch the problem (low manifold vacuum while accelerating and going up hill) with the infamous oil pump/vacuum pump as an auxilliary supply. On both my Pat and Panther engine, the oil pump-based vacuum pump did NOT produce any vacuum. Hence Keith's (PackardV8) suggestion above.<P>If yours actually works OK, then leave it alone. BUT, if you live somewhere that rains and you don't want to get caught, the wiper motor needs to be addressed. BTW, "RainX" (sp?) does help, but is not a solution IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBL Posted August 23, 2002 Author Share Posted August 23, 2002 Well I guess we will have to see. I live in Fla and we have had rain almost everyday here for a while. But it is summer. Do you know of anyone that has a used spare carb? Or know of what else would work. I will be going to a junkyard that has alot of older stuff tomorrow. My band might be playing there for the grand opening. He might pay us with car parts which would be a cool story about how I got the carb but just the same I don't know what will work. Someone suggested to me that a 55 olds carb might work..???<BR>Tim<BR>MBL<p>[ 08-23-2002: Message edited by: MBL ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 Used carbs are problematic. If they've been sitting for a while, then all the gaskets dry out and can crack. The gas turns to gum which clogs up all the small passages. If left out in the open, then who knows what they've been exposed to! In any case, I doubt that it would work properly without a competent overhaul.<P>At least get a rebuilt one from a commercial vendor, but you'll probably need a core (that you can get at the junk yard). <P>Alternatively, you can buy a new carb like Carter AFB or Edelbrock Performer (available lots of places) if you have a 4-bbl. That's what I'm doing for my Panther. However, this also presents adaption problems, not the least of which is the throttle linkage and its adjustment to the T-U. You need to be reasonably mechanically inclined to work your way through all the details.<P>Remind me: EXACTLY which year & engine you have? Maybe some chatter has a used one which will most easily adapt.<p>[ 08-23-2002: Message edited by: Craig LV ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBL Posted August 23, 2002 Author Share Posted August 23, 2002 I have a 1955 Packard 400 with the 352 V8. I shouldn't have any trouble with the mechanical aspect of it. Even if I can't figure it out one of my hot rodder friends will. I have a friend that has a carb on his 55 pack. motor that has GM stamped on the thermal choke. It is a rochester though.<BR>Tim<BR>MBL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBL Posted August 23, 2002 Author Share Posted August 23, 2002 So then is it possible that I can use a Rochester 4GC which has a different model serial #. Is it imperitive that I use the 4GC 7008230? Could I get away with using another Rochester 4GC from the same timeperiod?<BR>Tim<BR>MBL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 Probably any 1955-56 Rochestor 4GC would work. Even the 1955-56 Carter WCFB (from the Junior models) would work, but it has less air flow (CFM).<P>The 1956 4GC had an internal secondary air valve to alleviate a stumble on full throttle start and will also flow more air (CFM) because of larger throttle bores and venturiis. There were some other minor production modifications that shouldn't bite you. <P>Here's a link to some data including carb sizes & CFM:<P><A HREF="http://www.1956PackardPanther.com/index-page37.html" TARGET=_blank>1955-56 Packard V-8 Engine Data</A> <p>[ 08-23-2002: Message edited by: Craig LV ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted August 24, 2002 Share Posted August 24, 2002 Tim: The 1955 Senior cars had Rochestor 4GC carbs. You can get carb O'haul kits for these from Packards Intl Club, for one source.<P>I'm pretty familiar with this carb and it's ultimate descendent, the common Quadrajet.<P>IMHO, the most troublesome aspect of the 4GC is that both the front and rear barrels have idle circuits. When working right it provides a very smooth idle, something that Packard very much desired, of course. However, the idle circuit passages are very small and can easily be clogged if the gas isn't absolutely filtered or the gas gums up by evaporation. Other than that, the carb overhaul is pretty straight forward for anyone familiar with such things.<P>A specific problem I had with mine (55 Pat) was that the accelerator pump pivot hole on the throttle lever had worn to oblong shape. This meant that the AccPump linkage was sloppy and therefore the AccPump didn't activate right off idle. This caused a pretty good stumble when starting off under most conditions. Some "JB Weld" 2-part epoxy and redrill to size fixed it. So careful inspection and some familiarity with carb operation can help you troubleshoot most any problem you may have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBL Posted August 26, 2002 Author Share Posted August 26, 2002 Well ok you can start beating me up but, I found something that will work for the mean time. I took a carter off of a 56 pontiac and it seems to fit fine. I just had to adjust the linkage on the carb. It only cost me 30 bucks so if it don't work... oh well. <BR>Tim<BR>MBL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 Tim: All my previous comments about using an old carb certainly apply to the Pontiac carb! <P>Also, I remind you that the Twin-Ultramatic is VERY sensitive to throttle linkage adjustment. Don't be surprised if the T-U doesn't shift properly once you get it running. Of course, there might be some other problem with the T-U independent of the linkage adjustment, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 More T'vac in the first 1/2 of this thread then it changes to carbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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