paint=mc2

[Steve Brown]

Just finished giving the Panama Clipper her annual wax and shine. Did light green a couple of weeks ago and dark green today. I know sounds crazy but I tend to do in two parts. Originally this was so not to rub dark paint on the light. But here's the deal. This was the third time in three years I've waxed Alberta. And all three times I got no, zip, zilch oxidized paint on my cloth or wax applicator. Now I've been waxing cars since before I could shave and you just always get a little dead paint off. But not with this car. And her respray has to be getting on up to 9 years now. Always had more orange peel than it should. Old Art who painted her didn't get the mix of paint and air always right. But that aside, shouldn't I be getting some paint off that car every time I wax her? It's laquer paint with no clear coat of any kind. I just use plain old maguires wax on her. Now the car doesn't ever sit out. And it's rarely washed with water and soap. Only duster and detail spray. In case you are wondering it takes two bottles of detail spray and two rolls of soft paper towels to "wash" her from tail to dagmar. More dust removal than anything else. But this paint business has me stumped. Not complaining about lack of rub off, but stumped. Ideas any one?

[Steve Brown]

P.S. Drove up U.S. 75 Sunday to visit my mom on the Red River - about 80 miles. Was met head on by a caravan of custom 50s cars heading south toward Dallas. Must have been about 20 or so. Mostly Chevy and Ford. But there was a stock looking 49 or 50 Hudson that was black and looked showroom fresh. Not far behind it was a 55 Dodge stationwagon. It was painted bright orange and white and had 56 Clipper tails fused to it. A roof rack was sporting two surf boards. What a looker.

[Guest]

Those '56 Clipper taillights appear on about as many cars as the '59 Cadillacs taillights.

[Guest]

I thought it was something to do with laquer paint which I have never had. Although I spent many a hot summer day waxing dad's old roadmasters and remember getting lots of navy and green paint on the polish cloths. A couple of people have suggested that I heavily compound or wet sand some of my orange peel to reduce the effect. But I'm worried about taking off too much paint. Of course all of this could be that the modern waxes are less harsh on the cars than the old ones.

[Guest]

if its lacquer there should be NO orange peel at all. Sometimes lacquer will get a kind'a marbled look to it if its not mixed rite or sprayed at too high a pressure.<P>As for the no residue of paint that points to a well maintained finish. Like BH said the car must receive no UV or other elements to speak of. Also, the Imron and some of the more modern paints mite not leave residue.<P>A good lacquer that receives no harsh elements and is kept waxxed will not leave much residue either.<P>to remove the orange peel, regardless of type of paint use rubbing compound and a sheepskin bonnet on a drill motor or other power type motor driving the wheel. KEEP THE COMPOND WET as in W-E-T. This will probably NOT remove the orange peel if its heavy but will reduce it. Once agin, if its LACQUER there should be NO orange peel. The marbling i spoke of earlier usually occurs with lacquer of a pastel color, like lavender. My guess is that its probably polyurethane.

[Guest]

Thanks, Keith. I may try some work on a small area of the orange peel and see how it looks. It's worse on the trunk lid. Am sure Art said the paint was laquer but you know how it is with people telling you stuff. Sometimes they seem to just imagine it.

[Guest]

Steve: Why do you was your Packard every year? I have waxed my Chevelle three times in the 15 years I have owned it. I waxed the Chevelle this year for the first time in ten years. i realy didn't think she need it, but I waxed because of going to a car show. If you keep your Packard in the garage and covered with a good car cover, there sould be no need to wax it every year. To clean my Chevelle I simply use a wet cloth to clean any dust off of her.

[Steve Brown]

The original idea was to keep the oxidized paint off the car. <BR>But since she doesn't have that I guess I'm wasting my time. However there is something of bonding with the car when you hand wax it. When the people at Ford wanted the designers to create the new Thunderbird, they brought in a couple of original 55's and had the design team wash, wax and polish the cars themselves so they could become intimately familiar with the outside of the vehicle. As long as I have a shady spot and some breeze I find it a pleasurable experience. I have one of those random orbital gizzmos in the box that someone gave me. So far I've kept hand buffing. Saving that machine for my old age I guess.

[Guest]

SteveB, When I first got my 36' and washed it, even the water was yellow. I waxed it the 1st time with Nu-Finish and it really looked good, but what a job, ever since then, I wash her with a little dish soap & Downey fabric softener, and use a clear past wax on her, about 4 to 5 times a year and haven't yet seen any oxidized paint, but with all the wax on her, even the bird poop slides off when I spray it with water. I was told many years ago, once you get all the oxidized paint off, and keep it waxed good, the paint will not oxidized. The only thing with my car is when I wash & wax it, I need to pack a lunch because it's an all day job.

[Guest]

Amen, Jim on the time to wax. It took almost an entire can of wax to do the Clipper. She's a big old boat and eats up the wax and polish. Someone has since I posted told me that the modern waxes are made not to take off clearcoat on modern cars and are not as abrasive as the old Simonize and such we used in the 50s and 60s.

[Guest]

I found by using the Nu-Finish Polish first and only one time, to remove the dead paint and shine the car, witch I did 4 years ago, then re-wax her with a clear carnauba wax, the non-abrasive type there after, Mothers' or Blue Corolla, does the best for me. A wax-cleaner or wax-polish has a mile abrasives in it, that's meant to remove dead paint and stuff. When I go to buy car wax, If I can't see through the wax to the bottom of the can, I don't buy it. The clear-coat the auto makers use is a cheep way of putting a shine on the cars, it's like using polyurethane on wood, but if you use a wax-cleaner or wax-polish, you're going to eventually wear through it . Steve, I can relate to that, to completely wash and wax the 218'' land yacht, do the tires and spoke wheels, running boards and roof insert, it takes me about 10 hours, Just think of it as a labor of love.

[Guest]

No more clearcoat for me! Those little imperfections "they" say will polish out never do and if you have to touch it up, it won't match. And that wet sanding bit is the pits.....I have been four nights on it now on the Hornet and am only half done.

[Guest]

By far the worst case is when the clearcoat fails and turns frosty white. Happened on my black 86 truck hood. Not a pretty sight.

[Guest]

seen that on quite a few cars and trucks from T-Birds to Dodges.

[Guest]

REGARDING "PAINT" and "oxidation"<P>I think you guys need a little more background in basic paint chemistry. Let's start with what originally came on Packard and GMC at the factory up thru the '55 model year <P> Ford and Chrysler have always used enamel)<P>So - up to '55 it is "nitrocell" lacquer. It is NOT stable; DOES oxidize. You have to keep polishing it to keep it shiny, otherwise it will "film over" - obviously it does this SLOWER when the finish is kept dark and cool. <P>Why do some of us "hard cases" paint even today with "nitro" ? For the same reason the factory did. It does have a certain "look" that even the un-trained eye can often spot. I re-painted my '38 Twelve with the orig. nitro, took it all apart to do it so there are no masking tape edges around the hardware, and it has that "factory / classic era" look that some of us maintain you just cannot get with ANY modern paint. <P>Around early '55, they came out with acrylic lacqueer. This stuff is VASTLY more durable than the nitro, and does oxidize, but no where NEAR like the nitro does. Simple reason - much more chemically stable than the old "nitro".<P>Oh yes - basic difference between enamles and lacquers, is that enamels "harden" by BOTH chemical action, and by evaporation of the "carrier" solvent. Lacquers "harden" primarily by evaporation of the "carrier" solvent. These old style finishes are easy to apply by us amatuers ( I worked in a body shop as a kid, so I am somewhat less likely to get orange peel than the rest of you)<P>Now, to the modern paints - whole different ball game. These are incredibly more durable and chemically stable than any of the older generation finishing materials. But they are tricky to apply - and ..yeah...orange peel or (painter's tears) is what happens if you are not REALLY sharp.<P>AND THEY ARE DANGEROUS. Do NOT..I say again..do NOT ignore the warnings on modern paint cans about using specialized breathing apparatus. They will KILL you. DEAD..So dead you will STAY dead for a long time. You breath that stuff, and if you are LUCKY you will cripple your lungs. <P>So - if you aren't getting much oxidation when you polish, probably a modern (post 1955 style finish).<P>The ONLY way you can knock down orange peel is start with a sanding block, and perhaps 400 grit, and wet sand..then gradually work out the sand scratches with 600, then finally 1000 grit. THEN you can rub it out with rubbing compound. Do NOT try and take out "orange peel" with rubbing compound. All you will do, if you rub hard enough...is eventually take the entire finish off ( if your arm dosnt fall off first...!).<P>Now...back to the superiority of the Packard Twelve...did I ever tell you about the time.....etc...etc...<P>Pete Hartmann<BR>Big Springs, AZ