1936 starter rebuild

[Guest Jeff_Miller]

My car seemed to be exhibiting classic starter solenoid failure in that it engages and spins but when I stop pushing the starter button the solenoid stays in and keeps cranking; I have to remove the battery to get it to stop. Even after removing the battery it takes a bit for the solenoid to spring back out.

I looked at it a bit on the bench but decided at 76 years old it was probably just as well to bring it to a professional shop for a rebuild. I dropped it off yesterday and expect a call on Monday as to what they think should be done and for how much.

At this point the solenoid for sure needs to be cleaned up but the starter gear itself will also get replaced due to worn teeth. I suspect other parts will need to be replaced as well but he wanted to open it up to find out what needed replacement along with what he can replace vs. somehow rebuild if parts aren't available.

So here is a question. Even though the system remains the original 6 volt system, I am still hoping that a rebuilt starter will perform better than the 76 year old version. Any opinions on that?

Another question. I read some mixed opinions about rebuilders making the starter a "high torque" starter but it is unclear how they could do that without changing gears. Would they just add additional windings? My builder didn't say anything about modifications when I dropped it off but I'm trying to get a bit more educated now so that i can ask him about possible improvements next week.

Thanks,

Jeff

[startergenrebuilder]

The "High Torque" conversion comes from changing out the field windings. It has nothing to do with the gears, you would not want to use anything but what is called for on the drive/gear assembly. Feel free to contact me with any other questions.

[Guest Jeff_Miller]

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the feedback. I just got the starter back today but probably won't have a chance to try it until this weekend.

Unfortunately the shop did not give me an itemized list of parts nor was the guy that did the work available when I picked it up so I'm not 100% certain what they did. It is a nice shiny black now and they did replace the gear assembly that engages the flywheel. I know he cleaned up contacts on the relays and I hope he replaced bearings and such.

The guy that rebuilt it said he tested the solenoid and said it was good. He suspected a low battery but testing my battery with a multi-meter that has a battery load setting indicated 6.45 volts so I am dubious about that. He didn't want to replace the solenoid because he said the part cost alone was $250 so he pretty much just cleaned things up.

Rework was $250 before tax. With shop rates at $110/hr I can see it getting to that price. I sure hope it works but if not I'll be contacting you for more ideas and possibly for an upgrade to the high torque version.

[Guest dkhunt]

Jeff- be sure your battery cables are the really heavy gauge ones (not like the typical 12 volt ones). The six volt system must have the big cables.

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[Guest KeithElwell]

If I'm not mistaken your original problem with the starter may not have been the starter at all. If you are still using a vacuum starter switch and running the voltage to the starter solenoid thru that switch, I would check to see if the diaphragm in the starter switch has failed (worn out and develoed a leak). If the diaphragm is busted your vacuum from the intake manifold cannot pull down the shaft of the switch that the diaphragm is attached to internally and cannot break the electrical connection thru the switch to the starter. The starter solenoid would then continue to get voltage. However, I think this would all only be true if the accelerator pedal is depressed to shift the linkage and position the switch internally to connect the voltage. So I think for my theory to be correct, both the diaphragm would have to be failed and the linkage would have to be malfunctioning.

Check the diaphragm by checking for continuity thru the switch without voltage on the system and without the engine running to create vacuum on the lower side of the switch. and check the throttle linkage to be sure it is rotating the switch.

My $.02.

[Guest KeithElwell]

I mis-stated that. To check for a failed diaphragm you would shift the linkage to the starting position and check for continuity thru the switch (without voltage on the system) but WITH vacuum on the lower side of the switch. May want to do this on the bench (off the engine) and use a brake bleeding vacuum pump or other device to pull a vacuum on the switch.

[Guest Jeff_Miller]

Got the starter back in tonight and things are working fine again.

When I originally got the car I replaced the battery cables with very thick welding cables and ran that way for a few years before this issue developed so I know that was not the issue.

The foot pedal start had also been replace with an ignition button many years ago so I have no issue with vacuum or the rest of the original starting system. I did suspect the button and replaced it earlier only to find it was not the issue. I also verified the button before putting the old one back.

The rebuilder did not give me an itemized list of parts and he wasn't around when I got it back so I don't know what he did do. He most certainly did not rewind it and he did not replace the solenoid. I think he mostly cleaned it up, hopefully replaced bushing and bearings where appropriate, replace the drive because the teeth were a bit worn, put a new rubber boot on it, and painted it a nice shiny black. Whatever he did, it now works a bit better than when I originally purchased the car and it certainly no longer sticks in an engaged position.

It was nice to fire the old thing up again.

Jeff