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brian j

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Hey Bleach I live in Duluth is this a good deal on this Riviera or is this sarcasm? I know nothing about Riviera values. I could take an honest third party look at it if you have a serious interest, if not maybe I could just buy it up slap it on E-bay with a starting price 6 grand (no reserve of course) lol.

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While we're talking about prices and selling cars here's another beef that I have. It's about the word "restored". It's a term that means different things to different people. I've seen ads for hot rods listed as "restored", I've seen "50 footers" listed as restored ,not of which matched the definition. While working the car shows we would venture down to the car corrals in the evenings,especially at Hershey, to see the offings. There are many nice cars for sale but few really well restored cars although even the bad cars had high price tags. I've seen cars listed at 50 or 60,000 dollars with bad chrome or bad paint or mismated parts. It's also been a long time scince I saw a well restored Model a Ford. In my opinion,when there is ample info. available it's not any harder or more expensive to use the right parts and right colors and DO IT RIGHT. Many of the cars for sale on Ebay by "Dealers" are just lower quality cars at high prices misrepresented to an unwitting customer base. Almost a fraud in my estimation. Also when buying one of these cars you never know what you're going to find. Too many people try to improve on the original(seems especially in the case of Model A's) with "safety features" that are really not needed. Heck, most of these cars never leave the driveway! I prefer to do my own cars so that I know what I have. When I did my A,it was all stock. No alt. no hyd. brakes no sealed beams and no battery switches. I drove that truck for 16 yrs.it never failed to start on the first try and I was not afraid to drive it anywhere and all I ever did was replace one battery! When you do a cheap job you will end up with a cheap job and it's my attitude with cars that are not very valueable that the mosr effort you put in the better return you get out! Maybe more money but greater satisfaction.

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I asked a bodyman "friend" of mine last night what he would charge to paint my DB 30 DA coupe. He said 10K. I said WOW!!! He said just the paint would be 3K and goes up some every other month. Guess I'll leave her the way she is.

Rod:)

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Hey Bleach I live in Duluth is this a good deal on this Riviera or is this sarcasm? I know nothing about Riviera values. I could take an honest third party look at it if you have a serious interest, if not maybe I could just buy it up slap it on E-bay with a starting price 6 grand (no reserve of course) lol.

It's not sarcasm. It might be a good deal but it's too far for me for it to be worthwhile.

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While we're talking about prices and selling cars here's another beef that I have. It's about the word "restored". It's a term that means different things to different people. I've seen ads for hot rods listed as "restored", I've seen "50 footers" listed as restored ,not of which matched the definition. While working the car shows we would venture down to the car corrals in the evenings,especially at Hershey, to see the offings. There are many nice cars for sale but few really well restored cars although even the bad cars had high price tags. I've seen cars listed at 50 or 60,000 dollars with bad chrome or bad paint or mismated parts. It's also been a long time scince I saw a well restored Model a Ford. In my opinion,when there is ample info. available it's not any harder or more expensive to use the right parts and right colors and DO IT RIGHT. Many of the cars for sale on Ebay by "Dealers" are just lower quality cars at high prices misrepresented to an unwitting customer base. Almost a fraud in my estimation. Also when buying one of these cars you never know what you're going to find. Too many people try to improve on the original(seems especially in the case of Model A's) with "safety features" that are really not needed. Heck, most of these cars never leave the driveway! I prefer to do my own cars so that I know what I have. When I did my A,it was all stock. No alt. no hyd. brakes no sealed beams and no battery switches. I drove that truck for 16 yrs.it never failed to start on the first try and I was not afraid to drive it anywhere and all I ever did was replace one battery! When you do a cheap job you will end up with a cheap job and it's my attitude with cars that are not very valueable that the mosr effort you put in the better return you get out! Maybe more money but greater satisfaction.

Precisely the thing I was saying earlier. A lot out there is misrepresented or overpriced or both.:mad:

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I see that alot also out of the dealers. I often E-mail them questioning the authenticity of many parts on the vehicle and as it turns out the car is advertised as a 1914 is really a 1926.

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Hi Karasmer. I'm just up the hill from you, in Esko. I kind of figured Bleach might not want to make the drive for that Riv. I can't says i blame him. It would be a grand to have it shipped if you got a bargain shipper. Not much less to drive here and put it on a trailer. But i think it has potential....first Gen Rivs are a real sleeper performance wise, and they are usually loaded with luxury options. GM's answer to the T-Bird. I have my hands full or i would take a peek at it myself.

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A good rule of thumb, don't buy sight unseen if you have expectations of quality. If it's important to you to have a correct number matching,don't assume the car is correct, check every number/part yourself, and if you don't know how to do that, LEARN how to do it or sooner or later you'll buy a bill of goods. People will claim as gospel all sorts of things, such as the car was once owned by Elvis, or it's the only one in existence. These claims,and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee.

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I asked a bodyman "friend" of mine last night what he would charge to paint my DB 30 DA coupe. He said 10K. I said WOW!!! He said just the paint would be 3K and goes up some every other month. Guess I'll leave her the way she is.

Rod:)

Sorry Rod, Id get a new friend, I can get a gallon of good quality PPG paint and clear for roughly 300 bucks over the counter hardner included. In my opinion Sickens high-line clears would be a step up and the cost might jump just a little but not much.

Materials needed to PAINT a car in total might be at a long shot 6-7 and that would be everything and if it were my car it would be quite a bit less because I wouldnt be throwing out the scotchbrite at the first sight of loose fuzz.

Its the labor that becomes expensive, dissasembling the car and doing the bodywork, all of this you can do yourself if you dont want to pay someone.

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)

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Well, being one of those Generation Xers that some of you are referring to.....I have to put my two cents worth in on this. I will agree with what some of you have had to say. I'm 37...about to turn 38 this Sunday. The only reason I have interest in restoring a car is because I was around my dad when I was younger when he worked on his vehicles. He had to stop working on vehicles because everything became so computer-orientated, he didn't feel comfortable working on his own vehicle anymore. He has never been able to afford to restore a vehicle but I know he'd love to get his hands into one. We, as a younger generation, cannot learn what we are not taught by our parents. If no one is passing on their knowledge to a younger generation, how can that younger generation keep the hobby going? How many of you guys had your kids in the garage with you while working on a project or on your personal car when they were little, and your father with you? And do your kids have their kids in the garage with them? You can call us lazy, spoiled, etc... I take offense to that because there are PLENTY of exceptions to that rule! My husband and I are one of them. So is my daughter. She can tear apart a snowmobile or a dirt bike and she's only 14. I've also taught her to appreciate the old cars. Whether muscle cars or antiques. But my husband and I have taught her that by involving her in things we do.

Yes, restoring a vehicle is EXTREMELY expensive. My body guy told us if we gave him our car to work on himself, we'd be looking at $40k to $50k! I don't know about you, but I don't have that kind of money! No matter how much I enjoy working on restoring a car or motorcycle. I work in insurance and I've seen first hand how expensive just body work is! It's crazy. I look at prices on eBay and other sites and wonder what are they smoking! It's no wonder someone looks for a finished car to own. At least they don't have to fork out obscene amounts of money to restore one. Yeah, people don't always have the knowledge for the really old cars. My husband tried working on our car 20 years ago. He had a hell of a time getting ANY kind of information. No one was willing or able to teach him. We're fortunate that he's a licensed mechanic and can figure things out pretty well on his own.

All's I am trying to say is look at things from both sides. You can say we don't work on anything anymore. Technology has made it almost obsolete to work on anything by hand anymore. But, if the knowledge of the old ways aren't passed on to others, how can we continue to work on the older things? How can the younger generations appreciate working on a car if they haven't been taught? On the other hand, what's so bad about buying a finished car? At least the person that is buying it has some kind of appreciation for it and is more than likely going to try to preserve it. Is there really anything wrong with that? Other than the obnoxious price people are paying for things now days? ;)

Sounds like exactly what I said in my post above, I would also like to add though that technology isnt making working on the cars obselete, we are doing that ourselves.

We are scared of the un-known and so we blame the auto manuf. for buiding a car that cant be worked on. In my opinion it can be worked on if we are willing to take the time to re-learn some things.

I have experienced this countless times my-self in the past few years, my late model fuel injected sensorized car would break down, I wouldnt have a dime to pay someone to fix it so I had no choice ( sorta like someone twisting my arm when I have no money ) but to get a manual and a 30 dollar scanner and get it fixed.

Im still scared my-self because the next time it breaks down it will be something I havent tackled yet but I can remember the last time it happened and I didnt have a clue, I was able to figure it out and will do so again.

I have as much or less education as an 7-8 th grade student but thats not what matters. What matters is how strong my resolution is to fix it.

Prob the last point Id like to make and I do hope everyone reads this and gives it some thought.

There are certain people on this forum and forums all over the internet that have spent most of their lives collecting books at swap meets, collecting cars, dissasembling them, taking notes ect ect ect. Thousands of hours and thousands of dollars invested, they come onto forums and offer help and advice.

Not very often ( from what I have noticed here) but too often still you get someone that comes to these forums and ask for help, the guy in the know spends his time looking up the information or spends his time answering the question from all the data that he has stored.

Maybe in return the guy giving the answers asks for some info as well or asks certain questions so that he can add it to what he has collected ( its supposed to be two ways, helping one another I mean )

The guy asking the questions in many cases cant even be bothered to say thank-you for your time, you may never hear from the guy again or he may pop up in another un-related post asking questions again.

I poke at Dodge Brothers club tech advisors every now and then because in my opinion if you have the benefits of being a tech advisor ( even if it is only the ability to say you are that which in my opinion is reward enough, it means you prob. are the master of what you know and everyone knows it) and if you truly are a car enthusiast and care about what happens to these old car than you should prob. spend a little time here every day helping people out on the forum where people are going to be helped out.

Apparently becoming a tech advisor is like taking a senate seat, there are no term limits and fresh enthusisatic blood that hasnt been crapped on cant get the chance of being crapped on.

Very rarely do you see any tech advisor add anything to this forum and I believe it is in part ( big part ) because they have been advising people for so many years and have experienced the poor treatment ( as noted above ) by people for so many years that they are just burned out.

Chances are even greater though unfortunately that there isnt a line of people volunteering to be the new DC-8 tech advbisor as an example so the club prob feels greatfull to keep what they have at this pont.

My point is if you come to this site and ask questions and ask for help ( as I do ) than do the right thing and at the very least say thank-you.

If the guy seems real knowledgable and you dont see him post very often say a little more, make him feel wanted so he sticks around.

If he sticks around than we all benefit, the cars benefit and the hobby benefits but if you just crap on him ( wether it be a tech advisor or 1936 D-2 as an example as a regular forum participant ) than we dont have the benefit of all of his knowledge and when they lay him 6 feet under it will be gone forever.

Some of thef guys that come here really dont add much technical knowledge, I think these guys are just as important because they pose questions which allow the guys that do have the knowledge to get the cob-webs out of his mind and teach everyone here something.

I can pick something new and just as interesting out of a post made by Joe Shmoe as I can from John Keiser and yet both guys are on two completely different levels of skill.

What we learn we can teach others younger and older.

I am very happy to say that there is a core group of people here on this forum that add semi/ regularily to posts, maybe some of us do not care for one another for whatever reason but we are able to still have the stamina to put all of that aside and offer help or experiences when needed. That is what makes this not a good forum but a GREAT forum.

This forum and forums like it are hopefully going to make a big difference in how this hobby goes.

D.B club I believe has noticed a big difference in new members as of late, I believe that it is in the largest part due to this forum and the people that participate within it.

I just hope the people in control of the club are smart enough to make it available to everyone wether they are a member or not, I can only hope they dont get the stupid idea that they can increase their dollar count by forcing people to pay to participate in which case they will see a huge declanation in membership becauase of a lack of participation.

This new forum members only section has me concerned. :confused:

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)

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My hat is off to the Dodge Bros. Club and the A.A.C.A. for establishing and hosting this forum. We now have almost instant access to a group of people with an endless supply of knowledge and experience we must not let it go unappreciated. This forum has been a great help to me personally and I'm sure to countless others. For me though,it's a kind of "brotherhood" as we share a common interest. We can talk with those who have the same type of vehicle, who have experienced the same problems and who will help with the acquisition of parts without taken us over the coals! I derive a great deal of enjoyment and satisfaction in trying to help with a question or problem. I don't consider myself an expert(by no means) but I do try to learn as much as I can about the vehicles I'm working on. I hope that my 2 cents worth can help! I don't know any of you personally, but I am impressed by your knowledge and insight and we do need sometimes to air our concerns and joys but we must always remember ,even if we don't agree with one another ,we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable. Keep up the good work!

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My hat is off to the Dodge Bros. Club and the A.A.C.A. for establishing and hosting this forum. We now have almost instant access to a group of people with an endless supply of knowledge and experience we must not let it go unappreciated. This forum has been a great help to me personally and I'm sure to countless others. For me though,it's a kind of "brotherhood" as we share a common interest. We can talk with those who have the same type of vehicle, who have experienced the same problems and who will help with the acquisition of parts without taken us over the coals! I derive a great deal of enjoyment and satisfaction in trying to help with a question or problem. I don't consider myself an expert(by no means) but I do try to learn as much as I can about the vehicles I'm working on. I hope that my 2 cents worth can help! I don't know any of you personally, but I am impressed by your knowledge and insight and we do need sometimes to air our concerns and joys but we must always remember ,even if we don't agree with one another ,we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable. Keep up the good work!

Very well said!

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Here's a good example of the kinds of vehicles that are being sold as "professionally restored". Check out E-bay auction no. 180808502533. If this is professional somebody got screwed. Look closely at the paintwork and details(engine,drivetrain). Also the owner didn't seem to care about it at all! Check the high price too! Neat truck,just too bad it wasn't done right..maybe he could justify the 22 grand!

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At first glance my comment was going to be....Boy I wish my truck looked that good ......but the more I look at it ( back of cab looks like an orange peel ect ) the more I see your point.

I still wish my truck looked that good but for sure if it were done by a professional in the business and they soaked the owner for a wheelbarrow full of cash than it should have been a much nicer job

Edited by 1930
entire truck looks like an orange peel (see edit history)

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Hi again. I started this whole mess, i'll try to clean it up a little.......the considerable number of posts, and the responses to them,show this forum to be a place where different opinions can be aired out in a polite, tactful, and friendly manner. Thats a pretty rare commodity nowdays. Just look at other Forums where a statement is met with a flurry of name calling, hating,and browbeating. This club has a considerable amount of traffic because of the fair treatment of all. When i started this post, my intention was to show a trend i had observed, with the buying public. Caught in that trend are Dodge Brothers cars. An increase in popularity of these cars, and the corresponding values of the cars, will of course bring in some unwelcome element, such as the pie in the sky pricing, sellers misrepresenting, and increased cost of the restoration. But just as there are pitfalls, there are benefits. Increased interest brings more enthusiasts to the table. More cars get restored that may have languished. Value increases bring the cars on par with the Model T and A Ford, which enjoy a higher value, and a healthy interest (MAFCA) (apples to apples models), yet is sub par in quality,compared to a DB. It's always a double edged sword with cars. I also have a few AMC cars. I've always liked these cars, believe they posses a high level of quality for their day. I observe they are much maligned, under appreciated, and under valued. I always feel like my AMC's are a well kept secret. The best part.....any guy with a job can afford one. This too is changing. The AMC's have been united with most Mopar Clubs. There has been great strides made in documentation, giving the cars a much needed pedigree. And even the magazines are giving AMC more coverage, and making reparations for past unfairness. So.......how does this tie in with Dodge Brothers? AMC people are also going through the changes that make it a double edged sword, we're enjoying higher values, more interest. But we're no longer a secret, and with that comes the pie in the skyer's, and mis-representers. My intent was to let people know what i observed, as a "heads up" , so they could be aware of and adjust with that trend. My DB is somewhat unrestored, so i probably will not much be affected by these changes. It's a pretty sure bet you won't be seeing my DB for sale on Ebay for $20K . But thats OK with me.......it's paid for......and the tires are still holding air.....waiting for a buzz down the road. Regards.

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quote......browbeating........Is there a browbeating emoticon, I need to get one of those :eek:

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