PreWarQc
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Posts posted by PreWarQc
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12 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:
Disagree, and I know because I do this for a living. In fact, all of those cars took quite some time to sell. If they were screaming bargains and rare finds, they would have been snatched up quickly. All sat for well over six months waiting for new owners. And ultimately, the guy who bought one of the Pontiacs needed two visits to make sure it was right and his hang-up was that it wasn't perfect and cheaper. In fact, I offered one of those Pontiacs and the Buick to you during your last thread about "too much money, too little car."
Sold this one for about $12,000, a MARC touring award winner:
And this handsome and unusual victoria, an older frame-off restoration, for $15,000:
If $18,000 was actually your threshold, you could have had this one (until last month), an AACA National First Prize winner:
Or either of these with overdrives (the coupe is still available, by the way):
I don't feel that any of these was an unusually amazing bargain. If you couldn't find a really decent Model A for $16-18K, you simply weren't looking very hard.
16-18k (Canadian... yes, should of specified.)
I have not been looking at the market in over a year but if those cars represent the current trend (or market price-even in us currency) well I have to say that it is true, prices have started to go down.
But I made my choice and I'm happy with it!
.thumb.jpg.94d0f92ed781198b80e9b9b26e46eb14.jpg)
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44 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:
Your point being what, exactly? No car needs a frame-off restoration and if that's your only standard, well, enjoy riding the pine for the rest of your life. My only point is that there are operational pre-war cars available for prices that are not outrageous. Expecting inexpensive cars to also be perfect and desirable is not reasonable. However, I see more than a few cars that could be made road-worthy and fixed up at modest cost--the two 1941 Oldsmobiles and the 1941 Studebaker would be my choices, perhaps that Star/Durant. I don't figure they're turn-key, ready to show, but I also don't see evidence that they are basket cases and in need of massive amounts of capital and most of the ads say the cars are running and driving. More immediately, I sold the two Pontiacs below were great runners with minimal needs for $10,250 and $9200, respectively.
This 8-cylinder Buick sold for $9500. It also drove beautifully and was a proven tour car with a fresh interior:
Those cars (from what I see) have little to do with the list you showed from Hemmings... Why try to prove your point by showing me (what seem to be) extremly good deals? Good deals are not representative of the market as a whole and are very rare.
44 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:You want cheap pre-war cars, this is the market. No, they're not Pierce-Arrows and Packards and they're not convertibles or coupes. It looks like about $8000 is the floor for a complete pre-war car that can be made road-worthy with a modicum of effort. I didn't decide that, it is what it is. And if you compare it to days of yore when everything was so great, I bet the prices weren't all that different (bearing in mind that the value of a dollar was considerably different).
Never said I wanted a Pierce-Arrow. I would of liked a model A but there is none in GOOD shape under 16-18k
44 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:Like I said, a big part of the problem with guys who complain that there are no affordable pre-war cars is that they're not willing to lower their standards to match their budget. That's not my fault.
I'm not complaining, I'm giving my opinion. Younger guys have more choice... they can buy something between 1900 and 2019... They can tune, mod, drag, drift, lowride. If I like a Model A JUST AS MUCH as a Supra, Camaro, Mustang, , why would I spend twice the amount to buy a model A? I'm going to have just as much fun with my Mustang and I'll probably meet more guys my age anyway... So THIS is the answer to the questions you guys ask youselves at your meets (why is there no younger guys here?) I'm ready to bet that its not out of lack of interest but rather when a young guy has 10 000$ to put on a car and sees (if he's interested in pre war cars) a rusted car from the 20's with mold all over the interior uphostery and then he sees a car from his youth like a Camaro IROCZ in near new condition for 10 000$ what do you think he'll choose?
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2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:
Just for grins, I went on Hemmings.com and looked for pre war cars under $10,000. 371 hits. Narrowing it down to cars with photos, I still got more than 100. Some examples:
$7500
$8000 (actually for two cars)
$9500
$4000
$5000
$8500
$7500
$8950
$9750
$8950
$9900
$8950
$9900
$8500
$9000
$6500
$8900
$7950
$8750
$7000
$8000
Tales of the hobby's death at the low-end of the curve seem to be greatly exaggerated.
Did you take a good look at those cars? They are all restoration projects... most need frame off. Some look nice if you look fast with their ''20 footer'' paint but when you turn the picture, yikes! I don't think seeing the road through the footwell is a good sign. Some have not moved for decades.
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48 minutes ago, MCHinson said:
Earl started this discussion because he was surprised with his inability to sell his 1939 Buick Special Convertible Sedan as quickly as he thought he should be able to sell it. From reviewing similar recent sales, I told him that I thought his price was too high. I follow the market for similar cars fairly closely since I am the editor of the newsletter for the 36-38 Buick Club. As it turns out, Earl has sold the car for a higher price than I told him that I though the car was worth in the current market. I have seen all sorts of pre-war cars for sale and sold at all kinds of different prices. Sometimes they sell for more than I expect, and sometimes they sell for less. That is simply the way the market works. A car is worth what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. Sometimes the two find each other quickly, and sometimes it takes a while. Sometimes the seller has unreasonabl expectations and sometimes the buyer has unreasonable expectations. There is no simple hard and fast rule to determine the exact value of a particular car on a particular day.
I agree with this up to a point... I mainly think that prices are kept artificially high. I would not say prices are in the stratosphere but they are high enough to keep a lot of potential enthusiasm OUT of the hobby and lots of ''investors'' with no real interest in cars - IN. Short term this is great for prices, but long term, you are not building a real base of enthusiasm and people have no choice but to pay a high price (those who can - and investors).
Its a well inflated bubble, keeping new buyers out and old investors or people with a lot of money in... but lets say with stocks, when the prices fall, young people will buy... with cars, you need real enthusiasm to buy when the price is low and I doubt there will be a lot left in the coming years.
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26 minutes ago, Grimy said:
Well, thank you for your service to us greedy old guys. You sure showed us--you bought a newer car instead of an overpriced pre-war car. Do I hear "nya, nya, nya"?
If you hear ''nya, nya, nya'', it is only created by your imagination. I noticed from my previous thread that some members have a bad habit of creating things in their mind that do not exist... I'm very happy with my car, even if its more recent. The basic idea is not to own the oldest car around but simply to get into the hobby. I would of enjoyed a pre-war car also. So it is not ''victory'' for me, it simply is what it is, you don't need to add anything else to the story.
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I posted on this forum about a year ago pointing out the fact that pre war cars were desirable to less and less potential buyers and that the price of all (except of course ''pre war greats'') should and MUST go down in order to renew interest in younger generations. What I mentioned was that older guys STUBBORNLY hold on to a price they think is still pertinent and DO NOT budge. So, year after year, we all see the same cars (with the same owner) come back in the classified adds trying to sell their cars the amount they think its worth or based on false evaluation/value guides.
Again, a car is only worth what people are willing to pay and for pre war cars, very few are willing to pay what people are asking and so, they rarely sell. Some RARE younger guys like me would be willing to buy one (for less money of course) but its impossible to make pre war cars owners understand that their cars are not worth what they used to. So they look for a potential car to buy for a few months, or in my case, a few years and when we realize that a good car at a realistic price is simply not possible, we simply move on. So I've been looking for a few years for a good buy on a pre war car but came to the conclusion that most owners live in another world so I gave up on the pre war market and looked at cars from my own genereation. So last winter I bought an extremely well preserved SN95 Mustang convertible. At less than half the price of a pre war car I have a perfect car with minimum wear. I also enjoy the fact that guys from my own generation also enjoy looking and talking about the car because they can relate to it. I still enjoy reading about and looking at pre war cars but I'm very happy with how things turned out and will not be buying a pre war car anytime soon...
I know from experience that posting this kind of message on this forum will bring me all sorts of aggressive replies (as it was with my original post) but I really don't care. My intention here is maybe to wake some of you guys up, and so maybe help save what is indeed a dying part of the hobby.
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Well yes, that picture and the fact that they'd never let anything go, is the definition of hoarding. Whether you want to or not, Bob.
I'm happy this has been entertaining for you all.
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2 hours ago, mike6024 said:
My neighbors, Hitchings Lumber, Mary Hitchings and her husband, I forgot his name, had all these Mack trucks parked in their lumber yard, unused for decades. I thought someone should buy one, put it back on the road. I'd buy one. Never even bothered to ask. But bought wood from them many times. And it was told to me at some point later on, by Mary herself, some people would ask if trucks were for sale and if so how much for one, and she'd tell them a million dollars. Since she passed, and her husband preceded her, they all got sold off at an auction. She got to enjoy looking at them sitting there in the yard until the end of life, I suppose was the point of keeping them.
http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29581-h-model/ http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/33856-mary-hitchings/
Hoarding makes some people feel secure I guess. What can be said, if it works for them…
The trucks in the bushes (from the links) are really nice.
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3 hours ago, playswithbrass said:
I don't know how old your kids are but you need to be laying some groundwork so that they go Ooh and A ah and think dad getting some old weird car is the coolest thing. Take them round the Science and Tech museum in Ottawa, particularly on Open Doors Ottawa weekends that you get to go in the storage areas. Ask them what they would buy! You might be surprised by how enthused they get and it all helps your case when you finally find something that fits all your criteria.
Good luck!
I did not know there was a car exposition in the Science and Tech museum in Ottawa! Do they have cars from the pre-war era? I went on their web site and only saw cars from the 50’s. I know my kids love cars from the 50’s since I’ve owned one a couple of years ago and they loved it. Especially the fact that they could take a ride without a seatbelt.
Thanks!
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1 hour ago, Buffalowed Bill said:
Sad to say what strikes me about this young man's narrative, is his self centered, convoluted sense of entitlement. My take is that he is asking me (us) to pass on a car that I have, for a value much less then market. His only provocation for this seems to be that I have the car and he wants it, and that I'm old and will dye soon, and he is young and can enjoy it more then I can, and he wants it right now. Not only does he want a car for less then market, but he wants a car that he can use right away, and one that he doesn't have to do any work to.
I'm speaking for myself, I don't sell my cars vary often, but when I do it is because the buyer willing to pay market value, and is a person who has earned my respect. This means that by deed or action they have shown that they are willing to maintain the car as I would, or are willing to take the car to the next level. If I pass on a car for less then what I think that it is worth, it has to be to a friend. In other words, the new owner has had to have paid his dues. I don't see this young man's willingness to do this on any level. It will be interesting to find out if this gentleman is able to find what he is looking for.
I’m not going to debate why what you just laid out is completely off the tracks. But one thing is for sure, I don’t care about your car, I don’t want it… you want to insult me because I’m hesitant in spending my hard-earned money? How is that something bad? It does not affect you whether I buy a pre-war or not so what is the problem? If you die, I’m not going to rejoice in the fact that I’m going to get a cheap deal, I’d rather have no car and see you in perfect health and enjoy your car… by God, this is the truth. Do you really think I wish people die so that prices come down? That’s just insane... I’ve seen a lot of people die, enough to know that death is not an old man/woman thing… it’s a human thing. I know from experience that I can die much sooner than you can… its very very possible. Do you think I worry about the deal someone will make on my Ford Flex or my Jetta if I pass and resent them for the deal they’ll have because of my passing? Come on, you can be wiser than that.
I’m sure you wrote that without really thinking about it or in a bubble of anxiety towards God knows what. But be at peace, honestly, its ok.
No harm no foul.
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6 hours ago, poci1957 said:
Hey PreWarQc, great to see a guy interested in the "nickel" era. I do not own a 1920s car but historically have always thought this period was a very interesting time. In the old car world it is also a place for bargains as the cars of, say, 1915-1927 are now rather overlooked as you probably know. Consider our earlier advice to join a relevant club like the AACA (or the VMCCA or Horseless Carriage Club which I am less familiar with). Remember what some of us said about club members selling to club members. Meet some local car people too and let them help you in your search. There should be few also looking for 1920s cars unless you befriend a speculator looking to buy and "flip" such a car for quick profit (but he should be able to find an easier target). Go to shows and study the club magazines and bargains will begin to appear. Be selective, you may end up with more possibilities than you expect. Hold out for the best car you can afford but do remember that the owner of a 1920s car cannot be totally hands off. Even with a previously restored car you will need to have space and capability to perform some maintenance that local mechanics will be totally unfamiliar with, there will not likely be a guy in your neighborhood to help fix your vacuum tank. Good luck, Todd C
Very interesting reply, thank you.
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53 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:
My life's experience has taught me the opposite. There are a lot of old people ready to take advantage of the young ones. Lots of old farmers around here with their mattresses stuffed with money and they will get the fish hooks out of their pocket fast if they think they can "steal" something. This topic mentions cars that have been sitting for 20 to 40 years. It ain't young whippersnappers, still wet behind the ears, or greenhorns that has owned those cars for so long.
I agree, it all comes down to the individual. As many older gents are crooks as young ones.
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27 minutes ago, cahartley said:
By the way.......bless you for the work you do.......it has to be very draining.
Thank you.
27 minutes ago, cahartley said:Anyway, you haven't specified exactly which pre-war cars interest you so I (we?) have no idea how primitive you want to get.
A number of 20's cars have been in the doldrums so are more affordable.
The top of my list is a 1930 Essex Super Six sedan.
Otherwise, I prefer cars from the late 10'', early 20'... Studebaker Special 6 would be nice but I don't think I've ever seen a car from this period that I don't like... they are all pretty spectacular to me.
27 minutes ago, cahartley said:But the money lost is more than made up for by acquiring my dream car.......a car I never thought I could or would own.
I’m curious… what car would that be?
27 minutes ago, cahartley said:At this stage of your life money is most likely an enormous mitigating factor for almost everything you do.
Been there and done that.
Agreed.
27 minutes ago, cahartley said:Good luck with whatever decision you make.......
Thank you, very nice of you.
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10 hours ago, GregLaR said:
I did not read this gentleman’s reply as I felt in the first sentence that it would be way over the line… so I did not see that he made a derogatory comment about my origins. Thank you for taking a stand, I appreciate it. Also, for your open mind in this post and previous ones. Our history is more deeply intertwined that we can imagine. I’ve got ancestors that were founders of cities in the states interestingly enough, the city of Detroit, along with others. One was at one time one of, if not the largest land holder in your country and I’m always fascinated about how much we are much more alike when we start to dig deep. There are almost as much Americans of French-Canadian descent than there is French-Canadians. One only need to travel to Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, upstate NY… to take notice of this. Nothing justifies being insulted obviously what ever origin, but in this case, it does not even make any sense from a cultural perspective.
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8 hours ago, C Carl said:
Welcome to AACA forums, PreWarQc, and congratulations for having hung in here (if you are still with us), through your "Trial by fire". I can see where you are coming from to a large degree. You see an aspect of a real tectonic change, well under way, in a world the survival of which may depend on reversion to feudalism. Perhaps the magnitude of this societal upheaval will be more monumental than that of about 3 centuries ago. Playing for keeps, son. I also take your questions literally, and as in all causality games, psychological analysis of the motivations of others can be fun. Any entertaining conclusions should be taken somewhat lightly, as they by their nature , they are based upon assumptions. Regarding the reasons for the deviations from market realities of aging boomers, however, I'll leave my Dr. Diagnosis hat on the rack , at least for the present. O.K. ? I don't even know if you'll be back.
Now, I do have something very valuable to offer you after having read everything leading up to my response. Are you still here ? Oh, no : I am not trying to sell my pre-war beauties to you. They are one of those private transactions, long spoken for. Young folk getting them, sick old man turning 74 in a month selling them in slow motion. Dr. Diagnosis prescribed these old Cadillacs (1924 & 1927), as cheap psychotherapy for me. Though you fortunate Canadians have National Health, I don't think they will fill this Rx for you. You gonna have to pay. If you look at it right, you'll more than get your money's worth. If you check back in, I'll show you how. Very glad you are with us. Don't take constructive criticism too seriously around these parts. - Cadillac Carl
I appreciate your reply. The first couple of sentences felt like reading F. Hayek! Thank you for sharing those pictures, they are a delight to look at that’s for sure.
Best regards.
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2 minutes ago, trimacar said:
Well, not really, you came on here with your mind already made up that car values are going to "crash", and when people didn't immediately agree with your hypothesis, you quit listening to all the OTHER reasons to own a collector car.
Thanks for yet again telling me what my true intentions and toughts were... such a bad habit some people have here. It's ok if people don't agree with my hypothesis, but give me facts... I didn't get any. And I did not quit ''listening''. I did keep on reading. I kept an open mind but it seems your mind is made up as to what my intentions were so why bother... it truely seems like some people don't actually read, they just go over a few words as fast as they can and it is obvious this is so from the answers I get. Again, truely not impressed.
2 minutes ago, trimacar said:Yes, prices may go down in the future, who knows. I, for one, don't care, it would hurt my kids inheritance but it wouldn't hurt me. My enjoyment of the cars isn't the money, it's the people I've met and the places I've been in the hobby. This enjoyment, and the many friendships I now have, would never have happened if I'd just been staring at a $20,000 account balance in the bank.
Thats fine, you do what you want with your money. I'm not judging at all...
2 minutes ago, trimacar said:We all make choices how we use our money and conduct our lives, and you're obviously free to make yours. Matt said it best, when he stated that a lot of people think money is precious and time is cheap. When you get older, you'll really appreciate the wisdom of that statement, remember, I was young once too, and thought time was infinite and old people were silly......
I'm a palliative care professional, I know all about time and death my friend... i've helped hundreds and hundreds of people cross to the other side. And there is a balance in everything. If you put money in something, you can't put it in something else. I rather bring my family on vacation than burn it in mal investment, but thats just me... we are all different.
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Well, I have red all your posts (except 1) and I understand and even agree with some of the information that is conveyed. And yes, nobody knows what the future holds and the prices could drop less than what I predict. I might be wrong, but I see more evidence behind my perspective; the biggest one being the absence of interest from people under 60. But I do agree with the fact that younger guys might have a change in taste when it comes to collector cars as they grow older. It’s a big leap from having interests in a, let say Toyota Supra to a 1920 Chandler, but it is possible. And yes, the pre 42’ cars get fewer and fewer because some are not kept in running order, and none are obviously build, so the supply does get smaller every year. But don’t forget that the market is getting fed from the top also. Fox body Mustangs are now collector cars so are a lot of cars from the 80’s-90’s… Camaro, VW Golf, BMW, Acura, Toyota Supra, Celica... and the list goes on. There are a lot of those cars on the market, and young guys are really into them. Also, don’t forget that younger guys have in general, less interest in cars, are more in debt and have less disposable income than older generations.
What I was truly hoping to do here was to debunk what I was thinking and build a case to justify a potential 20k transaction but it really did the opposite for me. In hindsight I think it was foolish of me to think that guys who own and have invested a lot of money in those cars would have a discussion about a possible crash in the market. I appreciate those who were able to cross over their personal interest in the market and try and make a neutral analysis of what I was writing. I honestly hope the market holds and wish none of you lose any money. Above all, I wish that most of these cars will still be around in 20+ years. I am far too conservative to join the party at this stage of the market. I will still be thrilled when I go to museums and car shows and I’ll continue to enjoy them that way. I will obviously stay in the market but I’ll buy something more affordable, I’m probably poorer than I thought if I’m not willing to put 20k on something I love because I’m too worried about its value…
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1 minute ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:
Probably a little late, if the OP stays away as he threatened. But I do not understand WHY folks seem to want to always make money or break even on an old car. It is a hobby, folks. For me, any way. My brother, an avid fisherman, certainly never made money on his fishing boats. Nor on the new truck to tow same. Golfers , I'll bet ,don't worry about making money on their clubs and carts. And no one has ever made money on a new car, except the dealer. So why on an old car?
OP wanting an old car for $5000.00 not thinking clearly. Someone GIVE one to him. A $500.00 to a $1000.00 car and see if HE would part with it for $5000.00 after HE gets it reliable. Dollar to a donut, answer is NO.
My .02 worth.
Ben
Nah... I edited that part, I don't know, I'll keep wandering around a bit more but won't answer to idiotic responses.
Why do you say I wanted a 5000$ car? Where did you read that? I never wrote that and never even wrote that I wanted to buy a car... not here, not now. Do people here really read the posts or they just look at a few words and think they get the gist of it and reply pretty much anything that pop true their head.
My first post(S) clearly show that I'm taking in suggestions from everybody... even if people are a) not answeing my question b) trying to sell me a car I never asked for. After people start to tell me I'm complaining... well... yes, this was the goal of the whole thread... I find the pre war cars expensive in respect to the futur value that will most likely decline a lot and I ask people why this is so? That is all... but people like conflict it seems and I can't help but to defend myself.
And if you bought a 500$ or 1000$ and got it reliable it does not matter what you want for it, the only thing that matters is what the market is willing to pay for it. It could be 50k, it could be 500$. And I'm ok with that, my concern is that owners hold on to their cars because they don't get their price (and this is not a problem)... the problem is that in the long term, they will have no choice but to sell (because everybody gets old and or sick) and since most owners are in the same age group, this will pretty much all happen in a short time frame and then the market will get saturated, the old buyers will not be buying and the young guys will not be there to buy... and then, prices drop, a lot.
By that time, I and other guys like me will have moved on to other cars. My guess is that when that happens, a lot of cars will get sold overseas.
Its ok with me if prices are high and stay high... I would buy one in that scenario. But the most likely scenario is that they will be of very little worth in at most 10 years time.
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36 minutes ago, MCHinson said:
Either you are going to the wrong types of meets or you live in the wrong place. I am under 65 and have owned pre-war cars for over two decades. I have lots of friends who are older and most of them own later antique cars. I know multiple local people younger than me who own pre-war cars here. Maybe you just need to move to the Southeastern United States. To accuse me of "not being honest" based only on the hobbyists you have seen in your particular part of Canada is really a very bad way to try to get people to respond positively to your thoughts. The world is a lot bigger place than you seem to realize. Things are not the same everywhere.
You might be right up to a certain point as in I am willing to believe more young guys own pre 42 cars than I think in other areas, but I am sure they are not numerous enough to make a significant difference on the overall market. And ''not being honest'' was not the way I wanted to phrase that but my english is far from being perfect and I made a mistake in the translation... so I am sorry. I tought it was more on the lines of ''not being realistic'' the way I phrased it but I see my mistake.
I came here hoping to have my mind made up to buy a pre war by getting arguments about why these cars will retain a good portion of their value in the long term but instead it seems like it gave me the opposite drive. I think I'll get back in the Air-cooled VW or something like that...
Good luck y'all...
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11 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:
Here we go again. Someone starts a thread, gets opinions and answers from experts—answers they don’t like—and instead of simply considering the information and moving on, they get defensive.
Wrong... I wanted a discussion, not unidirectional comments with no substance from ''experts''. Or guys trying to sell me their cars.
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3 hours ago, MCHinson said:
Your initial post made it appear that you were seriously looking for an affordable decent pre-war car. This post makes it clear that you simply think that if you wait, the market will drop and you will pick one up for a fraction of their current cost.
Well no, this is not what I think nor is it what I wrote... I simply posted here with the intention of understanding why the prices were so high and be informed about what justifies it by having a discussion about it. I had some good and pertinent replies but they were few, most were an attempt to egocentrically sell me their car or lecture me about why I’m wrong without any arguments to back their comment. I am also encouraged to ‘’live life’’ by spending money without putting any thought into it. So I’m leaving this forum with no answer and a bad impression of the pre war community… its not quite what I imagined it to be.
3 hours ago, MCHinson said:While demographics would indicate that buyers will not be as quick to find when the baby boom generation is out of their prime antique auto buying period, history would tend to indicate that your assumptions that nobody will be interested in prewar cars and the market will plummet are incorrect. I know more people in their 20's and 30's now who are interested in and have purchased pre-war cars than was the case when I was in my 30's. I think that if you decide to wait for the prices to fall super low, you will probably never own a pre-war car.
As I have mentioned, I have been to many meets with my previous cars and I have never seen a guy under 65 with a pre 1942 car. I know a guy who knows someone in his 20’s who has a Model T but it was after his grand father passed away and he got it true his estate, I don’t think he still has it. When I had my Hudson Hornet I would meet with guys with 50’s car and at that time I was 33… No one was near my age. The youngest guy was in his late 50’s. I don’t mind being with older people but to pretend that young guys are numerous in being interested in pre war (even pre 70’s) car is not being honest. Of course, there are some... but not nearly enough to keep the prices up in the long run.
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7 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:
In a private email the OP told me he is not interested in a car that needs work, none at all. So what he is looking for is an 80+ year old car in perfect condition, for half the going rate. And can't figure out why anyone who owns such a car, won't sell it to him . But is willing to wait until we all die or get Alzheimer's so he can pick up our cars cheap.
Seems fair.
I simply stated that I’m not interested in buying and restoring your car. A car that needs work is not quite the same as a complete restoration. But above all things why do you try to slander me like this... This is far from being adequate and mature behavior on your part. Are you 10 years old, seriously? I asked the community if they knew why the prices of pre war cars were so high and your first reply was to try and sell me your car… I’m not impressed.
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11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:
You are lamenting that there are no more cheap pre-war cars and that prices are "insane," but I think part of the problem is your definitions of "insane" and "cheap." There are no more nice Model As in the farmer's barn for $25. There have been multiple demonstrations of good cars for what, today, is not a lot of money, yet even those are "too expensive" for you. I don't know what your criteria are or your budget situation, but it looks to me like the problem isn't a dearth of cars but rather a significant disconnect between reality and fantasy. You're not going to get much car for $5000, and certainly not a ready-to-go car that won't need some work. You probably also can't buy a move-in condition house for $35,000. Or a lobster dinner for $5. You live in Montreal, that's an expensive place to live, but that situation should also have recalibrated your sense of value to something in line with 2018 rather than 1968.
Why lecture me that way as if I knew nothing? I’m far from being disconnected from reality… you’ve got some nerve man… I’ve owned many antique cars in the last 20 years and I’m far from being ignorant on the subject. I never stated I wanted a ready to run 5000$ car or a 25$ farmer’s barn model A, I know houses are not 35k and I know a lobster dinner isn’t 5$... this is quite insulting. Why some of you guys on the forum have the tendency to write thing in my stead as if I really think those things or as if you know my thoughts or intentions. You also decided that I lived in Montreal and that my expenses were high so I must ‘’recalibrate my sense of value’’… you have no idea about who I am and what my condition is so I’m really curious as to why you give yourself permission to write pretty much anything that goes true your head? Again, I asked a simple question ‘’why are pre war cars so expensive’’ and no one gave me a direct answer.
11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:Or you can sit on the sidelines and do nothing and bemoan that the world has treated you unfairly and how you wish it was like the good old days. But the bottom line is this: Money is relatively easy to get. Time is impossible.
I will simply buy something more recent, its that simple, and it will still be a lot of fun. As I have already stated, I’ve owned air cooled VW’s, a Hudson Hornet, Hemi Dodge, 60’s Ford… and I will continue to own other interesting cars without any doubt. Pre war will simply be put in the back of my mind and slowly fade away if the prices don't come down. I’ve never been on the sidelines and I’ve never complained the world has treated me unfairly and I never will so I don’t quite understand why you are stating this. This is ridiculous.
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3 hours ago, Buffalowed Bill said:
I'm not trying to be too critical, but I have not seen PreWarQc respond to the questions about what he's really locking for. Pre-war covers a lot of ground. Are you talking about late 30's fat fendered, late 20's-30's Classic era, 20's or earlier non Classic, or even earlier? What do you consider affordable? In the fifty years that I have been collecting cars, I have never seen the supply better, or the the prices more affordable then they are now. Are you looking for a turn-key or will you accept some level of a project?
I actually did not post this thread to seek an immediate solution for not having an (old) car. What I wanted was to understand why older guys refuse to lower their price when their car won't sell and why do they prefer to keep their car and watch them deteriorate. As I said, it is none of my buisness what people want to do with their property but I'm interested in understanding the behavior and I also want to point out the consequences of this behavior.
I don't really care about the money. If I knew they would keep their value (or even lose a bit), I would buy one today! The problem is, and this is why I refuse to buy one now, is that I know buyers will be extremely rare in the next 5 - 10 years and the prices will completely collapse. I mean, I love those cars but I'm not in the position where I can buy something 20-30k and see it reduced to barely nothing. Millennials and x's will not be buying those cars in big enough numbers to keep the prices up... and soon they will be the bulk of the potential buyers.
But to answer your question, I am looking for anything from that era. I'm passionate about them more than any other year because my view of the world is more closely related to the pre war society than to the present state of the world. The political world of those days, the social context and cohesion. The world before the war was better in my sense (not perfect) but better. I'm french-Canadian but the American model of government and society of those days is what I relate to the most; free market, small government, freedom and prosperity. I also prefer the style of the days... the attention to detail, the smell. So any car between 1900 and 1942 would be just fine.
3 hours ago, Buffalowed Bill said:It shouldn't come as a surprise that we old timers were young once too. We had to go through the same balancing act, that you are faced with today. I don't remember complaining about people who were unwilling to part with their cars, and at a price that I wanted to pay for them.
The economic reality of families today is quite different and have nothing to do with the past. Yes luxury items are less expensive be it tv's, computers, cars... but houses, food, education; all the basic goods are more expensive than in the past and when you add them up, there is not a lot left even if you have a high income. You can choose not to buy a new TV but you have no choice to buy when it comes to housing, food and education. Today you have to be very conservative if you want to be able to put money aside for retirement, pay your mortgage and raise kids with enough resources to make them productive members of the society. Most young people are swimming in debt and will be doing so much of their lives, I don't want to follow that path so I'm on a tight budget. As I said... I have enough money to buy most cars but not enough to see its value decline year after year for the next decades.
3 hours ago, Buffalowed Bill said:Whatever that price may be, in your case. Normally I would suggest patience, but in your case you have waited for ten years and still not been able to find what you want. I think that it might be time for some soul searching. This may not be a question of current owners and the market, but one of your ability to make a decision. The world is yours to make a choice from an amazing selection of cars available today, then it's a matter of determining what you can afford and getting to where you need to be, to get it into your garage.
There is no soul searching to be made. I've own a few antique/collector cars in the past 20 years from Air cooled VW's to a 1950's Hudson Hornet to a 60's Ford and a Hemi Dodge. I've enjoyed them all and when I needed to sell them to finance important projets I never had trouble. Presently I need to be more careful with money for many reasons but I can still afford something nice but it must retain most of its value in the years to come, this is the most important prerequisite. I don't have a crystal ball, but I strongly doubt pre war cars will hold most of their value in the coming years.
3 hours ago, Buffalowed Bill said:Have you considered financing? Credit is still very affordable and available. That's the way I bought my first Classic Pierce Arrow, some forty two years ago, when credit was much less affordable then it is today. I personally have always thought that it is strange that a person who will finance a $40K pickup, may never consider financing a $20K collector car.
I have no debt except for mortgage and I plan on keeping it this way... And yes, financing a 40k pickup is not the way to go, I agree.
3 hours ago, Buffalowed Bill said:I doubt that many of us old timers worried about what the market would be in ten years, or about the exchange rate of currency, when we started in the hobby. Most of us have had to pass on a car because we just couldn't get to where we needed to be.
I might be wrong but from what I saw online, antique cars were much cheaper before the mid 90's...
3 hours ago, Buffalowed Bill said:It also shouldn't come as a shock that no mater how old some of us get, that we still have our unfulfilled dreams.
I agree, unfulfilled dreams are part of life and one as to be in peace with that fact that some might never be realised.
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How bad is the collector market getting
in General Discussion
Posted
I don't see ''crap'' going on in the market... It is a really interesting hobby BUT it is a complicated one as you need A LOT of space, money and knowledge. All things that people have less and less of... There is also other factors that come into play for buyers; will I have parts support, will I get help from other club members, will the club even survive? Those questions were not asked 10-20 years ago because the answer was obviously ''yes''... but today, who knows if the Nash club will be around in 10-15 years. Am I willing to buy a 1929 Nash for 20 000$ knowing I might possibly be on my own in 10 years with 'nearly impossible to find parts' for repair? You don't ask yourself those questions if you are an 80yo owner... but if you are 30 or 40 and looking to buy and have a minimum of common sense, you will.
The hobby is not going away, but it will shrink... how much it shrinks (I think) depends partially on the current owners/club members behavior. And to witness such idiotic and infentile reaction because he did not get what he wanted for his car, does not look very good...for people peeking into the antique car world, people who might develop an interest for the hobby...