[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

Hi Janousek, I'm not asking for the shop to provide firm and binding estimates. The kitchen remodeler provides estimates and if they open the wall and it's gone due to termites, they aren't going to pay for it, the customer will. But let's be honest, the shops I spoke to don't want to provide any transparency... so I can only wonder why. Is it to take on whatever work they can to keep utilization rates high? not sure but the temptation is there. There's no risk on their part, they only benefit. I see no downside to the shop, only to the unsuspecting customer. If the industry wants better relationships (and there's room to improve), then they should use their expertise to provide as much clarity and information up front and most definitely after the blasting.

[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

Thanks Mercer09. I would have been happy with a ballpark estimate that was genuine (not a lowball for the sake of starting). It would have been a deciding factor as I wanted to invest $25K for the body, which I'm sure with more investigation, I could have found. Now I'm in and there's little I can do about it (I'm sure the shop realizes that). To me, it's a bit of a one way street. Shops say, we don't know what we don't know so it's T&M. All you have is the hourly rate to go by which means nothing. Once you are 40% of the way like mine is, you get the full picture and it's time to inquire as to whether this is fair. I didn't want the situation this way, the industry puts themselves in this. I have some friends that restored vehicles for a range of costs (18-50K) but that was mostly on condition and add-ons like the drivetrain, frame, etc. My car was really clean and the shop put it in the top 10 out of over 300 restorations. One would assume a less costly restoration but I'm not sure seeing it's going to fall over $40K. Believe me, I did a lot of research on the process and industry but in the end, had to pick the shop without knowing the level of quality and any cost estimation.

[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

Thanks Janousek but as a customer, I believe my questions are reasonable considering there is little to no transparency on the timing, quality, cost involved in the process. As I stated earlier, no other industry operates with a blank check, so questions are fair game. In my opinion, there is no reason a shop cannot estimate the disassembly and blasting and then once blasted, estimate the bodywork, paint and interior. Heck, they can probably run a magnet over the car and in under 3 hours of evaluation provide a reasonable estimate (they don't need exact, just caveat the estimate). This is the work they do/know, their the experts and I'm sure they know to a degree of certainty (+/- 15%) where the job will fall. They had no issues estimating the condition in relation to their prior jobs (top 10%). I have not engaged the shop in this dialogue (it's kinda sad I could not for fear of being "broomed out". This is why I reached out to the forum but I should be able to question them without "brooming my car from their shop". This means it's a one directional relationship and the customer should just shut up and stomach the cost/results. We're talking 40K+ and I would hardly believe any home remodeler would ever take that position. "Newbies" support the industry, likely at a higher rate than repeats, so they are a large part of the market. You can easily find lots of bad relationships in this industry and its an outcome from both sides - but for me, a little transparency (are you sure you want a concourse finish on a driver, this project will be over 35K, etc.) Also, let's not assume that all shops are honest and fair. like any industry, you have bad operators. Respect goes both ways and without the customer and newbies, the shop fails.

[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

Right on Jack M. It's the more acceptable option.

[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

Thanks for all the great feedback. Yes, I have to come to terms with the real cost but I'm confident I have the correct shop when you factor quality and precision. I did not want to buy a restored car even though I could do so for a lot less money. I wanted the experience of bringing the vehicle to what I want and to simply drive it (it drives awesome already). I'll slow the pace of the restoration to make it fit my budget. It may take another 12 months but I know I will be getting a vehicle that I will not have to touch for 20 years (aside from typical maintenance).

[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

Northeast in the metro area, so the cost for rent, labor, etc. is some of the highest. To chrome a bumper here is 1,500. it's steep.

[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

That makes sense Frantz, I appreciate that experience and agree that it's better to pay for high quality then expect high quality and get something less. I just need to come to terms with what I thought was a 25K job will be 40k+.

[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

It looks to be this type of quality. He's using the polyester primer, all metal, days of work on each panel to straighten. I'm confident it will be a very good body, just overkill for a driver. Thanks for sharing.

[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

I doubt you're getting screwed, but you're paying a top-quality shop for top-quality work. In the end, I think quality is worth the price, but I'm in a distinct minority in that regard. Only you can decide if you've got the financial resources to see this project through to the end at these shop rates. But I do think you'll get what you pay for and will be happy with the results.

This makes sense. I know they are doing concourse work (i didn't at the time I booked them) and I have no complaints about the quality. Just wanted to know if it's reasonable considering the straight and solid condition of the car going in (shop stated top 10 in condition). Scary to think if it were the bottom 50.... My only complaint is that shops vary in process and ultimately cost. The customer should have some indication on the differences to make a more informed decision. I can go to the store and buy a $200 dishwasher or a $2,000 dishwasher. In this industry it's not a known variable. If it were, maybe the final outcomes and cust sat would be better. Bad restos are historic and most because of cost (both sides are to blame). Again, in my opinion, the disassembly and blasting should be easy to estimate. Then when it's back from blasting, the body work, paint and reassembly should be easy to estimate. My shop has done over 300 restos, that's enough data to know where it stands but for some reason there's a reluctance to be transparent (even with the worse case). This is their mistake, it would reduce unhappy customers. From the customer side, I need to be more informed. I tried, did lots of researcher, spoke to 5-8 shops and read everything i could on it and in the end, figured it would be 25K for a solid paint job on a straight (top 10) project car. I still don't think that is unreasonable. My mistake was I went to a shop that does concourse work which increases the cost 75% (it will wind up over $40K) and since I'm driving this car, it will only stress me out when someone lets the shopping cart go and it dings the concourse body. There's learning on both sides here but I do think shops should be more transparent. No other industry that I know of let's a customer go into any project or service on a blank check, there's always some estimation, some transparency. I think it would benefit the resto industry to develop that discipline but... they may lose work once ball parks are remotely transparent.   

[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

Thanks, it makes sense. I guess what was missing was to understand some level of investment and the type/quality of work a shop does. They all aren't equal and if a customer wants a driver/decent job at the 25K mark, there's no way to know where to go. I spoke to 4 shops, all would not estimate at all (T&M period), so it's a guessing game and I guessed good/bad. Good that the shop is high quality and bad that it blows my budget away. The shop should provide a level of quality/typical cost and in my opinion they can provide a solid estimate on disassembly/blasting. Once it's blasted, they should be able to estimate the work/cost from that point forward. It's naked at that point and if they've been around long enough, they know what's involved from that point forward. All of the shops refused to provide any ballpark estimates which leaves the customer blindly choosing. I chose high in this case, which is a learning exercise I'm okay with. Question: would it be better to pull the car and look for another shop that isn't concourse quality or keep it in the current shop and possibly eclipse 40-45K for the body? Keep in mind I purchased all trim, reconditioned chrome, etc. for 12K and the car cost 8K, so leaving it in the current shop would bring the total cost to 60-65K for body and interior (not all interior) only.  

[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

This shop typically focus' on older antiques from 20's to 50's, so it's not a muscle car restoration shop. This may lend to the quality of work. The quality looks really good, just difficult to drive a car regularly with a 40K+ paint job. They provide detailed statements that come with pics but this doesn't indicate productivity or working on 2 cars at once (which was suggested by another expert).  

[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

I do receive detailed invoices and pics for all work but that doesn't answer my question. I had one expert suggest that it's possible they are working on 2 cars simultaneously on the same process (block sanding), which may explain why the sections worked on are so small (back and forth during dry time, etc.) But I don't know. I have no experience with this (first restoration) and no shop estimates work, so you don't know the ones that do good work at an efficient pace vs the ones that do concourse (or are not fair in their practice). I just figured body only on a solid project car could get done for $25K. I have no intention of showing the car and I've told the shop this. It's evident in the undercarriage and drive train (all work and are clean but are not being touched).  

[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

Thanks for the reply's. The car was always a driver and I conveyed that to the shop. The rate is $85 per hour (all labor). I'm just doing interior and exterior, did not disassemble the dash or remove the headliner (they were okay, not perfect but good for a driver). The shop gave me one option, eliminate the polyester primer (2K) but the rest of the work will be close to concourse. They would not quote or even estimate - I asked. I found no shops that would. At this stage (after 35% block sanded) they estimate 20K+ for the remaining work but I believe that's low considering paint ($7-9K) and everything has to be fitted back. I'm in at $16K now. My biggest concern was the 34 hours of filling on one quarter panel which was visibly straight (maybe 2 small dings after blasting - although there's always highs and lows). The cost of that quarter was over $3K to ready for paint. The shop told me my car was in the top 10% of those returning from the blasting. Little metal, straight, no plastic/all metal, etc. Then the block sanding started and it did not make sense to me. What is a car in the bottom 25% going to cost (80-90K)? 

[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

Thank you. It's an automatic, not a convertible. The car will have a value of 35K upon completion. The shop looks to be doing concourse work and no complaints with the quality. It's just that the body work alone (filler, block sanding, priming, small amount of patching) will come to over 20K. That seems high on a straight, all metal car.  

[69 GTO Restoration Costs]

I'm currently restoring an 69 GTO. The shop works on T&M only. The car was clean (3 small rust spots less than 3" and no big dents (only some small dings, creases.) The car is all metal, all original. The disassembly cost 5,500, the media blasting and primer/sealer cost 5,000 and the first stage of block sanding / straightening (right quarter,  roof, and partial left quarter) cost 5,500. I was not expecting to be 16K in at this stage with another 21+ left on the job and I'm not sure if this is reasonable/customary. For example, the straightening and block sanding of the right quarter alone (very straight to begin with 5-7 high/low spots/dings) was billed at 34 hours. The filler was put on in small sections (1'x2' or smaller) and done 3-5 times over. 40K to complete a very clean car with paint/reassembly (no frame off) seems high to me. This will put me in at 60K when I'm done (cost of car and parts). I did no mechanical work at all (the drivetrain was solid). The shop is supplying no parts, I purchased all moldings, interior, trim, weather stripping, glass, chrome, stainless, grills, bumpers, etc.). This job is frame on, body only to paint. Does 38-42K seem reasonable for this type of job.