X-Frame
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1974-1976 Mercury Cougar
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Jammers are illegal but boy do I wish I had one to knock others off the phone while they are not paying attention driving!!!!
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If anyone is serious about buying original sets of wheel covers (mostly premium versions) and hub caps of vintage cars (some '40s but mostly 1950s-1960s and a few later) please let me know. I have a friend in Newport News, VA that have hundreds of them and has gotten to a point in his life preparing for retirement and just need to now clear out his hobby of collecting them. If you are looking for a particular set let me know in a PM and I will see if he has them.
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I have a 1936 Chevrolet Coupe and a 1937 Dodge 1/2 ton truck that my father left to me. Upon registering the vehicles in my name there was no issue. The Titles were transferred with no issue. The issue that is coming is as follows. In North Carolina, the vehicle must be inspected. The vehicle number must be correct per the title. The issue is I haven't found the VIN numbers on any tag on either vehicle. Any recommendations on where to look?
Thanks
Tom C
Was any of the above helpful and were you able to title/register the vehicles?
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The 1937 Dodge PU:
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I have a 1936 Chevrolet Coupe and a 1937 Dodge 1/2 ton truck that my father left to me. Upon registering the vehicles in my name there was no issue. The Titles were transferred with no issue. The issue that is coming is as follows. In North Carolina, the vehicle must be inspected. The vehicle number must be correct per the title. The issue is I haven't found the VIN numbers on any tag on either vehicle. Any recommendations on where to look?
Thanks
Tom C
I don't have my NADA and Red Books at hand but searching Chevy info the 1937 is under the hood on the right side of the cowl panel.
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Not to hijack the thread but did want to ask here since I have a good Canadian and Aussie audience, does anyone have a workshop manual that shows the cabriolet (roadster) frame of the 1937-1939 Chevrolet with the added Holden X brace? Or is it even shown in them? It is unique to these years cars and no 1940 exported to Australia yet it too had a unique chassis configuration. Seeking photo, diagram, sketch of them if available. Thanks!
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That would not really be a plausible explanation as hidden wipers and Astro Ventilation was expanded to the Chev Caprice and some of the Impala line for 1968 along with the corresponding Canadian Pontiacs. Of course one could have purchased a '67 Grand Prix in Canada at the time, and it would have been the same as any U.S. market Grand Prix.
Craig
Oh well, it was just an idea
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No Canadian Pontiac had concealed windshield wipers, or Astro Ventilation like the Grand Prix. Even though the Grande Parisiennes LOOK the same as a Grand Prix, there are some differences such as having vent windows. As far as WHY that is, I cannot answer.
Craig
Wipers may have been due to the snows in Canada? I use to own a '67 Grand Prix as well as other GM hidden wipers and they can end up being encapsulated in the snow we get here in Virginia. Not sure about the vents other than possibly again weather since the front glass sets more flush to the body with them over time?
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Here is a link to the 1967 full-size Canadian Pontiac brochure. http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/Canada/1967%20Pontiac%20Brochure/dirindex.html
Craig
Okay... can see that the Canadian version of Grand Prix is Grand Parisianne but what I also see odd here... the Safari in Canada uses the Grand Prix front end (hide away headlights) while the American version is based on the Bonneville. Why the mismatch?
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On a side note adding to another thread here, did the 1940 Chevrolet built in Canada and exported to Australia - did the Cabriolet (cabriolet/roadster) have the same oddball chassis with the weird X-like brace as the American counterpart or was it swapped out with the Holden type X used in '37-'39?
I am going to answer my own question here where I got an answer on another forum. There were no 1940 Chevy Convertibles in Australia, only closed bodies. I understand there was one import and it still exists. Australia entered the war in 1939 and by 1940 the Holden body works were gearing up for the war effort.
It is just mind boggling to me how low the numbers of American designed cars are sold in countries that even built them. We in in the states are spoiled with our throw-away multi-car excess society. And even though we do have some areas of the country that are sparse in populations, places like Canada with their tundra and Australia's outback are vast and population centers are very confined (isolated). I suspect cars in the wilderness is not a necessity for everyday use but more for monthly trips or emergencies so they last longer? I am not sure but possibly like what we see in Cuba where people are still driving 1940s and 1950s cars today?
On a side note, in one Mad Max movie shot in Oz, there was a scene of a pile of junk cars with one showing a quite unique X on a car that is more of a squeezed H and it took a while but someone identified it as a Toyota Crown from the early 1960s. It had a massive frame overbuilt for the car and was not a good seller in the state because the frame weight made the car slow and sluggish. Just sharing a tidbit
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On a side note adding to another thread here, did the 1940 Chevrolet built in Canada and exported to Australia - did the Cabriolet (cabriolet/roadster) have the same oddball chassis with the weird X-like brace as the American counterpart or was it swapped out with the Holden type X used in '37-'39?
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That is what puzzled me about the GTO and possibly Firebird. They were the only Pontiacs sold in Canada that had Pontiac engines. This led me to believe they imported those cars but maybe they imported the parts and assembled them in Canada. That doesn't make much sense because they only sold a few hundred or at most a few thousand. Maybe some GM insider knows the answer.
Apparently they did make some GTO's at the Oshawa, Ontario and possibly the St. Therese, Quebec plant for 1970. Looking at the VIN number the seventh place will tell where it was built. 1 is Oshawa and 2 is St. Therese. If it is a letter then was built at one of the US plants.
Could be one of those situations where they swapped out one for one - one Canadian built car for one American import?
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"Any reason why they used the X frame on the Ford Ute?"
What year / model are you asking about?
Pre 1960 (the '50s models in particular)
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What engines were in the GTO's? That's the tale of the tale.
Not sure if that will help? Both Canadian and American GTO's in 1970 used the same engines - 400-cid standard with a 455-cid option.
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helfen, my example many have been a poor choice because I have seen body dimensions off by an inch or two depending on year/model. With the Catalina v. Parisienne the body dimensions are the same. Even though the 1961 American version had a new perimeter boxed frame while the Canadian still had the Tubular Center-X (two completely different style frames) both were still 119" wb. Obviously the American "wide track" was wider front and rear equal at 62.5" while the Canadian car had front: 60.3" and rear: 59.3" treads which accounts for the rear wheel profile in your photo above even if it is only about 3" total difference. But it goes back to my original question even though the playing field has changed. Chassis changes. At this point they could have probably switched to the new style frame since the wheelbase is the same and continue using it past 1964 which was their last year for the X use? Or to keep the rear axle from looking short, switch differential housing and axle shaft sizes - a simple fix? Thanks for the comparison pictures. Visuals often help. I should try and find a more mismatched sized example :cool:
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There is an amazing amount of knowledge around these parts........
American tractor builders did much the same thing in order to circumvent import/export duties/tariffs/taxes which was good for both countries.
It created a lot of jobs in Canada, a lot of revenue for American based companies and provided Canadians with products they needed and wanted at better prices.
Craig, we sure are blessed to have such minds who are willing to help answer questions. Sometimes mine get a bit technical but with good intent hoping someone will be reading that has the answers or know of someone who will. It just seems that the more I dig and the more people contribute, it often leads to new questions like mine above
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They saved money by paying $500,000 to tool up 1/10 of a car instead of $10,000,000 for a whole car. Then they saved more money by using cheap Chevrolet engines, trans, chassis, etc instead of more expensive Pontiac parts. Then they saved some taxes by building them in Canada rather than importing them from the US. Then they saved more money by not stocking and selling parts for 2 completely different cars.
I see your logic to a point but not 100% yet
What I am saying if the tooling was done for lets say a 1961 Pontiac in the states but Canada still wanted to use their Chevy chassis which is not a match size wise... why not alter a frame that can easily be modified rather than tool a second set of complete body parts narrower and shorter in size than the American counterpart? I would think modifying a frame to fit the American body would be cheaper than reinventing the wheel tooling all the Pontiac body parts over especially when you are talking such low sales numbers? Which is the lesser of the two evils? To me altering the frame to fit preexisting parts would be cheaper. Not importing American parts but using American ready engineered die designs to make them in Canada. Altering an existing Canadian Chevy chassis since they won't be going back in time but forward and the X will be dropped in a few years anyway?American Pontiac dropped the X in 1961. American Chevrolet in 1965. Canadian Pontiac didn't drop theirs until the same year Chevy did in America.
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This thread started by asking about the '50s and '60s. I'm going to throw in an observation from memory, which is fleeting and may be wrong.
In 1946 my father was transferred to the Canadian office of his company. Of course, the whole family went, too. I was 9, but already a car nut. Dad's car was a '41 Packard 110, bought just before the war and not yet replaced. The man who soon became his best friend in Canada (or anywhere else!) was driving a Canadian Pontiac, about a '39. I remember (correctly?? it's almost 70 years ago, and I was 9) him making a trip to the States in that car, stopping for some routine service, and being told to his surprise that it had Chevy running gear. If this is correct, the Canadian badge engineering started before WWII.
You are correct that Chevy based Pontiacs were built long "before" WWII. Here is a background history at the GM Heritage site:
https://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wiki/index.php/Canada_Only_General_Motors_Cars
Eric
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I find Australian Utilities fascinating. What I also find unusual they had a mixed bag of chassis frames. In the states we had the hybrid car-pickup trucks. Chevy's El Camino used the X while the Ford Ranchero did not. But in Australia the Ford utilities seems to have used the convertible (roadster) chassis frames with an X brace unlike our Ranchero. Any reason why they used the X frame on the Ford Ute?:confused:
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Thanks for all of the leads helfen! I believe I had contacted Jim in the past about other questions but not this one and will also look into the other people as well. Funny you mentioned a song about the GTO. I remember the song done in later years (1969) for The Judge model sung by Paul Revere and the Raiders. The former lead and keyboard artist Paul Revere died October 4th this year at his home in Idaho at age 76.
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Thanks helfen. I understand that part. I guess what I was saying (asking) is how did they see altering the tool molds to press smaller Pontiac body panels and parts that fit a Chevrolet chassis is cost effective? Or was it a cheaper alternative than using American dimensions and simply change the frame dimensions to accommodate the body. I know that Chevy and Pontiac used basically the same tubular center-x chassis with some suspension outrigger differences but still similar enough to make it work with minor alterations. Make minor changes to the chassis to mate with full size Pontiac body parts already tooled in America?
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Thanks everyone for all of the input. It helps clarify "why" except for one anomaly. I am still puzzled as how they felt like they saved money by basically retrofitting Pontiac skins to Chevy chassis especially when Pontiac switch to the wide-track configuration in 1959?
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There was a very good article about this subject in Collectible Automobile magazine. I'll have to see if I can find it. I think they did an article on Canadian Pontiacs. If not, they did one on Canadian Meteors, which explained the reasons at to why. Of course, Meteors weren't much more than gussied-up Fords. Not only did Pontiac have the Chevrolet frame and running gear, but the had Pontiac sheetmetal and interiors with Chevrolet dashes and steering columns/wheels.
Paul
Hope you can find the article. But with the Pontiacs they had to change the sheet metal too because they were an inch or two shorter than the American version Pontiacs. You know how an inch here or there can make a big difference in a lot of things
How did cops measure speed in early 1900s?
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by X-Frame (see edit history)
Wayne, by chance I am doing an article for our local monthly newsletter about the history of automobiles. As a matter of fact in 1899 here in Richmond, we were almost the first in the South to manufacture automobiles.
I am seeing the "golden rule" referenced two ways. One is letting violators off with a warning rather than giving them a ticket. The other is concerning the right of way at intersections. I guess it depends on who you ask but I am not seeing it as a common term.
As far as determining if someone was speeding, here is a link to a history given about that subject for New York. I know here in Richmond it wasn't until 1952 before the use of radar was initiated.
https://alansmysteriousworld.wordpress.com/2010/08/23/how-did-the-police-determine-the-speed-of-drivers-before-radar-was-invented-how-do-they-measure-speed-in-localities-where-radar-isn%E2%80%99t-allowed/