Tom M Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Why does the rear spark plug keep fouling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 check your compression on that cylinder first, could be bad compression, or really bad valve guides, also check that spark plug lead.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted March 29, 2002 Author Share Posted March 29, 2002 Al,<P>Thanks I will check the compression and wire once I get the car up and running from storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 I am missing something here...what Packard engine is a "319"....?<P>Pete Hartmann<BR>Big Springs, AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted March 29, 2002 Author Share Posted March 29, 2002 Would it be the 289? <P>I got the 319 from the Packard Club Site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 320, no 319. They lost a cubic inch someplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 The 289 came from the Studebaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 Can SOMEONE tell me what year and series Packard we are talking about ( just curious...!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 its probably a 1955 320 CID V8. We need more info about the engine and the type of deposits found on the p[lug to diagnose this.<P>In the mean time, try swapping the plug with one from another cylinder to see if the same thing happens. Has he tried OTHER plugs and heaast ranges?????? NEED DETAILS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted April 1, 2002 Author Share Posted April 1, 2002 I guess it would of been nice if I posted the year. <P>1931 Packard<BR>Series - Eighth<BR>Model - 833 Standard<BR>Style - 468 Coupe with Rumble Seat, Dual Sidemounts, Wooden Spoke Wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted April 1, 2002 Author Share Posted April 1, 2002 The plug turns black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 Hi Tom<P>A plug that is turning black, is most likley fouling because it is burning "too rich". I would also not rule out oil fouling from leaking rings.<P>The further back in time you go, esepcially with the UPdraft carbs your car was equipped with, the RICHER they burn. The solution is to re-ject the carbs - something you need a speed shop with a LOT of patience to do.<P>Pete Hartmann<BR>Big Springs, AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted April 2, 2002 Author Share Posted April 2, 2002 Pete,<P>The Carb that is on the car is not the original. It's a Linkhart and all brass.<BR>Do you think this carb can be jetted?<P>I just had it clean by a friend. I have not had a chance to put it back on the car because Mother Nature is not being kind to us here in the Midwest (burbs of Chicago). If I only had a three/four/five car garage. <P>[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Tom Malas ]<p>[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Tom Malas ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 Hi Tom !<P>Eat your heart out....here in Arizona...it gets so cold in the winter...sometimes we have to put a T shirt on when washing our cars....!<P>Tom...you DONT want to know how many years it has been since I worked on an up-draft carb....! I would be surprised, however, if a carb. shop would have any trouble re-jetting it for you - the problem, these days, is finding a competent carb shop ! They used to be all over - now, I suspect you will have to go thru Hemmings, or perhaps one of our fellow "chatters" in here knows of one - obviously, an ordinary carb. re-builder isnt what you need...any town large enough to be worthy of a coke machine and a pay toilet, at least in the old days, had a "hot rod tune up shop" with a guy who knows how to do this stuff.<P>If all else fails, and you are feeling brave and rambuctious, you could do it the way I have a few times - your main jets will be brass...figure out what drill size they are, and try a drill size about 2/3 of what was in there orig. Solder up the jet hole with hard silver-solder (not ordinary lead), and then drill it out to the smaller size. Dont get carried away leaning it - remember, those old fuel systems had LOUSY fuel distribution - "read" your LEANEST plug and base your re-jetting on that plug - you WILL find dramatic differences in spark plug electrode temp. just because of the poor fuel distribution inherent in old style manifolds and carbs.<P>Let us know how it turns out !<P>Pete Hartmann<BR>Big Springs AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 if its ONLY ONE plug thats turning black then i doubt its a carb problem. A carb problem should turn ALL of the plugs or most of them black and sooty. From a previous post i get the impression that only the rear most plug is fouling???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 the very first posty above says 'the rear plug keeps fouling'. If the rest of the plugs do not foul then its probably a plug problem. check the heat range on ALL of the plugs. the rear one mite be different or just a bad plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 is that brass Linkert an UPdraught or SIDEdraught carb?????? whats the number on it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 for Linkert rebuild parts contact an Indian or H-D vintage parts dealer. The old brass linkerts r amazingly simple carbs. if u think it needs rebuilding (about all that can be done to them is clean and adjust) try it yourself. DO contact a Vintage Indian or HD dealer for details, parts, pics etc. You mite want to go to Virtualindian@yahoogroups.com for further Linkert info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted April 3, 2002 Author Share Posted April 3, 2002 PackardV8,<P>It is just the back plug that turns black. I just purchase these plugs last year.<P>The carb is an updraft.<P>I don't have the carb number of hand but I will get it tonight. You are right about the carb being simple there is not much for settings on it. Thanks for the link.<p>[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: Tom Malas ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 On my Pat. it is #6 that will collect oil and foul from time to time if not driven often to keep it burned off. When the car starts missing, I immdediately go to ol' #6, pull it out, clean it with the little mini sandblaster and resinstall and I'm good to go again for a long while. It is not uncommon for rear plugs to be the ones that foul the most.....it is by design.....because they are usually rhe hardest to extract and replace due to heater core boxes, etc. One of the Murphy's law type things, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 I am "hedging" my advice about re-jetting because I failed to get from you a more detailed description of what KIND of fouling. Ordinary fuel/carbon fouling of SOME but not all plugs is typical of older cars due to their miserably un-balanced manifolding. If you have thicker carbon material, the logical conclusion is you are burning OIL, and that means a tear-down & re-ring (which on those simple engines is no big deal) (L head engines with the valves in the block can have badly worn guides, and not suck oil thru the guides, so dont worry if the guides are a little "sloppy".<P>Side note - the STANDARD eight Packards, if I recall, come apart like the Twelves - if memory serves, the rod is pushed up far enough to pull the pin clips out, then the pins, and the rod comes out thru the bottom . BE SURE YOU GET THE CON ROD OIL SPLASH HOLE GOING THE RIGHT WAY !<P>Pete Hartmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted April 4, 2002 Author Share Posted April 4, 2002 Pete,<P>It's a light black suit. I know it's not oil because my wifes 86 Buick had a cylinder where the plug would foul/get oily. The car only had 17,000 on it. A friend and I pulled the one head, dropped the oil pan and pulled out the bad piston. Replaced the rings, etc. and would you know no more plug fouling.<BR>Thanks for your input.<P>RHO,<BR>That's what I usually due. Pull number 8 and give it a cleaning.<P>If I didn't have this Internet thing here at work I would not of found intresting and wonderful people like you all. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted April 4, 2002 Author Share Posted April 4, 2002 Packard V8,<P>Here are some numbers I found on the carb:<BR>1-1/2 mod, R 197, D2 stamped on the mounting flange to the manifold.<P>Jet is stamped with 62.<P>Accelerator Arm has two numbers on it<BR>27<BR>1482 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 from what u describe it is MOST likely a bad plug. Check its heat range against the others. Try swapping with another plug from anither cylinder to see if it does the same thing. After collecting this kind of analysis u can then make a judgment as to wheather its the cylinder or the plug or....<BR>If u r not using AC or Motocraft or Autolite then u r wasting your time fighting plug problems anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted April 4, 2002 Author Share Posted April 4, 2002 PackardV8,<P>I will give that a try once the weather gets better.<P>Plug type. I don't remember. I will check tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted April 5, 2002 Author Share Posted April 5, 2002 All,<P>Went and pulled the Spark Plugs and guess what all of them were black. Normally it's just the back one. <P>I should of metion this early but when I disassemble the Carb before my friend took it to work to clean it I found a little piece of plastic in the bowl.<BR> How it got in there I have no idea?<P>The Spark plugs are Champion W16Y.<P>[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: Tom Malas ]<p>[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: Tom Malas ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 that W16Y sounds like a cold plug...but i'm not real sure because Champion has unreliable numbering schemas and change them so often. if the plug is too cold IT WILL GAS FOUL. U must determine the proper heat range of plug for the engine. I recommend trying a set of AC 44's but u will have to determine the reach depending on the engine. The Linkert shoudl Contain NO PLASTIC parts, none , zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted April 5, 2002 Author Share Posted April 5, 2002 PackardV8,<P>I'm not sure how the piece of plastic got in there. Maybe when I took the carb apart the last time for cleaning.<P>Just talk to the parts store I bought the last set of plugs and they have a set of the 44's. I will be picking them up tommorrow and hopefully someday get the car up and running. I will let you know how they perform.<P>Thanks,<BR>Tom<p>[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: Tom Malas ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted April 8, 2002 Author Share Posted April 8, 2002 PackardV8,<P>Went to parts store on Saturday to pickup spark plugs. The AC-44'S don't have that right size threads. The plugs I need have the larger threads. The part store is going to see if they can get the larger threaded ones. I think the number was AC55/57.<P>Does anyone have a converion chart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 if the 44 was too smal then u probably need 18mm plugs. the '44' means 14mm heat range 4. an '84' would be 18mm and heat range 4. The last number indicates heat range. the first number indicates thread size. i would stay with a heat range of 4 or 5. You need to get the AC book and STUDY it for your self to become familiar with the plugs and heat ranges. Its important when fighting a plug problem. AC has a consistant and reliable plug numbering system. The other manufactureres do NOT. Thats why KNOWING the plug is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 it was probably an 84 or 85 not a 55??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted April 8, 2002 Author Share Posted April 8, 2002 PackardV8<P>Thanks.<P>I will be picking up AC86'S tommorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 that 86 will be a HOT plug. thats ok. it should NOT gas fowl. BUT, it is fairly HOT. Meaning only it will have a somewhat shorter life span than a colder plug. U might get some spark knock in hot weather and then again maybe the plug life will be fine and no spark knock due to the Packard engines ran somewhat cold anyway. a '4' is midrange. '3' and below is COLD plug for extreme hi-heat service. '5' and above is a hot plug for colder run engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted April 9, 2002 Author Share Posted April 9, 2002 PackardV8<P>I will give the 86's a try and see what happens. If there is alot of knocking I will drop them down to 85's and so on.<P>Thanks for all your help on this matter.<P>Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted April 10, 2002 Author Share Posted April 10, 2002 PackardV8,<P>Pickup plugs yesterday. Got home and guess what, the threads on the AC-86's are smaller then the other plugs. The diameter of the threads on Champion Plug is .870. Any ideas <P>I do have some other Champion plugs the number on them are C16C. The only difference on these plugs compared to W16Y is the metal prong points to the side of the electrode instead of going over the top of it.<p>[ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: Tom Malas ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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