?#1,#2,#3...

[Guest]

What makes a car a #1,2,or3 car?<BR>Is the points system related to this and how does that work as well?

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

The numbering system you are refering to is often used to discribe an old cars condition, especially by people who are trying to sell a car. The main proponent of this system seems to be "Old Cars Weekly" which is a tabloid size old cars news and classified publication out of Iola WI. You might want to visit their web site.<P>I don't have a copy of OCW handy at the moment, so I'll try to paraphrase their system. Feel free to correct me, since I'm doing this off the top of my head.<P>A Number 1 car is "AS NEW" Showing no signs of wear, tear or abuse. <P>A Number 2 car is a car that is esentially new, but it has been driven a little. This is similar to your new car, just about the time the "new car smell" goes away.<P>A Number 3 car is a very good car that has been driven, but has no obvious defects or signs of abuse. This is roughly the equivalent of the car you would get today from a major car rental company like Avis or Hertz. It's nice. It's this years model, but you can tell someone has driven it before you. Most cars people describe in ads as a "number 1" or "number 2" cars, really belong in this category.<P>A Number 4 car is servicable and reasonably intact but in need some repairs. They often look best when viewed from 10 feet.<P>A Number 5 car runs, but needs extensive repairs and/or restoration.<P>A Number 6 car is a parts car.<P>Do these standards easily translate to a judging points system? Not really. Every car club has its own judging standards, so it's hard to be specific. In CCCA we are very concerned with authenticity as well as quality of restoration. If a car is exactly as it came from the factory in both appearance and authenticity, then we'd call it a 100 point car. A 100 point CCCA car would really be a Number 1.<P>Cars in the 90 plus point range would most likely qualify as Number 2 or Number 3 cars by the Old Cars Weekly standard. In our club, most 75 point or better cars would probably be at least a Number 4 car.<P>It is very doubtful that anyone would bring a #5 or #6 car for judging at any of our events, although they might show up either in the "Original Car" category, or just for exhibition. After all, it is possible for a car to need a total restoration, and still be really interesting to look at. It's always fascinating to see a car in the rough, before any restoration is attempted. <P>Of course, your milage may vary...

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

Here is the official word, copied from the Old Cars Weekly web site. I hope this answers your questions.<P><BR>#1 EXCELLENT: Restored to the current maximum professional standards of quality in every area, or perfect original with components operating and appearing as new. This is a 95-plus point show car that is not driven. In national show judging, a car in No. 1 condition is likely to win top honors in its class. In a sense, it has ceased to be an automobile and has become an object of art. It is likely to transported to shows in an enclosed trailer, and, when not being shown, it is stored in a climate-controlled facility. It is not driven. There are very few No. 1 cars. <P>#2 FINE: Well-restored, or a combination of superior restoration and excellent original. Also, an extremely well-maintained original showing very minimal wear. Except for the very closest inspection, a No. 2 vehicle may appear as a No. 1. The No. 2 vehicle will take the top award in many judged shows, except when squared off against a No. 1 example in its own class. It may also be driven 800-1,000 miles each year to shows, on tours, and simply for pleasure. <P>#3 VERY GOOD: Completely operable original or "older restoration" showing wear. Also, a good amateur restoration, all presentable and serviceable inside and out. Plus, combinations of well-done restoration and good operable components; or a partially restored car with all parts necessary to complete it and/or valuable NOS parts. This is a "20-footer." That is, from 20 feet away it may look perfect. But as we approach it, we begin to notice that the paint may be getting a little thin in spots from frequent washing and polishing. Looking inside we might detect some wear on the driver¹s seat, foot pedals, and carpeting. The chrome trim, while still quite presentable, may have lost the sharp, mirror-like reflective quality it had when new. All systems and equipment are in good operating order. In general, most of the vehicles seen at car shows are No. 3s. <P>#4 GOOD: A driveable vehicle needing no, or only minor, work to be functionable. Also, a deteriorated restoration or a very poor amateur restoration. All components may need restoration to be "excellent," but the car is mostly usable "as is." This is a driver. It may be in the process of restoration, or its owner may have big plans, but even from 20 feet away, there is no doubt that it needs a lot of help. <P>#5 RESTORABLE: Needs complete restoration of body, chassis, and interior. May or may not be running, but isn¹t weathered, wrecked, and/or stripped to the point of being useful only for parts. This car needs everything. It may not be operable, but it is essentially all there and has only minor surface rust, if any rust at all. While presenting a real challenge to the restorer, it won¹t have him chasing for a lot of missing parts. <P>#6 PARTS CAR: May or may not be running, but is weathered, wrecked, and/or stripped to the point of being useful primarily for parts. This is an incomplete or greatly deteriorated, perhaps rusty, vehicle that has value only as a parts donor for other restoration projects.<BR>

[Guest]

ABOUT JUDGING....and "POINTS"<P>11 Oct 2001<P>Let me add a hearty "second" to Chuck's comments, and take them a little further, so as to under-line what our CCCA is all about, and how it differs from so called "public" car shows. <P>MOST old car judging events are "competitive". THey have "people's choice" awards, and make a big fuss over which car has been more carefully turned into costume jewelry.<P>The Classic Car Club Of America's judging system reflects the purpose of our Club, which is to respect and advance the history of what the classic car movement was and IS all about.<P>"Competition" between cars, and/or pleasing audiences, is irrelevant to our purpose within the confines of this Club. While we do not physically run off spectators from our judging events, the pleasing of spectators is irrelevant. The primary purpose for the creation of our judging, was and SHOULD REMAIN to encourage historical accuracy i.e. "what where these cars all about when they were new."<P>At a Classic Car Club Of America judging event, there IS NO COMPETITION between the cars present. While it may be emotionally satisfying for someone to see a crowd "eewww" and "aahhh" about a car, the SOLE CRITERIA for a judge at a Classic Car Club Of America MUST be " HOW CLOSELY DOES THIS CAR RESEMBLE ITS CONDITION WHEN IT WAS DELIVERED TO ITS FIRST OWNER." Thus, the only "competition" a classic automobile has, is ITSELF as it was when new.<P>It is therefore entirely logical that at any Classic Car Club Of America judging event, NONE, SOME, or ALL of the cars present could score 100 points. <P>Again, a 100 point car is NOT perfect, with gleaming chrome and modern paint shining everywhere. I cringe when I see standard "production line" classic cars with chrome all over the place, and obviously hand-rubbed chassis parts. <P>In fact, chroming parts that were not chromed, overly finishing parts that were NOT overly finished, and the use of modern "two-part" synthetic paints, are a basis for point DEDEUCTION at our events, on grounds of authenticity.<BR> <BR>Thus a car that might be a "winner" at those car events that cater to ( and live off of ) pleasing a crowd, might well score LOWER at a well-administred Classic Car Club event, than a less spectacular car that ACCURATELY REFLECTS WHAT IT WAS WHEN NEW DURING THE CLASSIC ERA.<P>With that in mind, let me assure people interested in the Classic Car Club Of America, and its Regions, we welcome the participation of ALL "true classics", regardless of how "pretty" they are. My own personal prejudice is that those of us with so called "original" cars, have as much if not more fun, than the exhibitors of these expensive restorations ! It would be stupid, if not criminal, to take a freshly restored 100 point car out on a dirt road and thrash it just for the fun of enjoying the incredibly superior performance that separates the true classic from the ordinary old car of that era. But...if your "true classic" is like mine...presentable...but DRIVEABLE.......well...now.....tearing down the road in one of these engineering masterpieces........is TRULY a "classic" experience !<P>Pete Hartmann<BR>Big Springs, Az.<P><BR>

[Tom M]

Bravo Pete, I agree with on this your statement even thou I am a youngster:<BR>"But...if your "true classic" is like mine...presentable...but DRIVEABLE.......well...now.....tearing down the road in one of these engineering masterpieces........is TRULY a "classic" experience!"<P>My car looks good from a few feet away but up close you can see it needs paint and interior but for now I enjoy driving her to local cruise nights and runs to the local grocery stores. It feels wonderful when people come up to me and say you have a good looking car even thou the state that it is in.

[Guest]

Thank you gentelman, for this information. This will be verry useful in the future.<P>Thanks,<BR>XS SPEED