Guest Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Hi does anyone have a link or any experience building a water vapor injection system for a carburated eng? My 430 neeeeeeds you!!!! Its got a chicken bone stuck in its throut every time I give it the gas......I heard it can help to eliminate the knock??<BR> Any help is appreciated.<BR>Thanks<BR>Tom H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Re.water injection. I worked for Buick Motor Division for 30 years,and I well remember a bulletin issued at one point and time,the substance of it being "NO warranty on Buick engines if equipped with water innjection" BCA 2399 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rlbleeker Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 I ran a water injector on my '63 327 (11:1) for several years. Took care of the ping. The engine had quite a bit of blow by and the inside of the oil filler tube would get the white look on the colder days. Vapor getting past the rings and condensating in the tube. No real side effects though. Finally pulled the motor in favor of a 350 (mistake!). I think it was an Edlebrock, don't know if they still make them. I've still got it somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Yes thats what ive heard about the ping. I am running stock 10.5:1 on the 430 and even the high octane gas pings in the summer here in arizona. I was figuring on hooking it up with a throttle postition sensor to inject at the power setting that the pinging starts. I just need to get the basics on how to make it and set it up.<BR> Any help is much appreciated.<BR>I also heard you can add alcahol to the water and get a boost out of it till you run dry!! Hehe<BR> Thanks all for the posts<BR>Tom H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldtimer Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 be careful water doesn't compress to well. too much water in the mixture and you could be looking at more then a pinging problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 any chance you could lower the compression ratio with a thicker head gasket? that might get you by and be less of a hassle.<P>allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Somewhere in the pile of stuff I have laying around is an NOS water injection kit from a company called Spearco. I had bought two and used one, so I still have one more. It worked OK but not sure that it really helped with the ping. What you may want to do is check your distrutor and see if the advance stop bushing has fallen out or disintegrated from age. This may be causing over-advancing and the ping. Also, how hot is the motor running? That will send it into ping as well.<BR>Look at those things and if you want the water injection kit, please email me and we can agree on a price.<BR>Good luck<BR>Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rlbleeker Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 If I remember correctly, the one I had connected to the distributor (RPM) and to the carb (vacuum) and determined the amount of water based on that. There were a couple little knobs you could turn to adjust it. You started with it basically off and turned up the water until the ping stopped. Mine worked when I pulled the engine, you can have it if you want it. You can also install a bigger cam to kill some of the compression. Moves you power band, may or may not be acceptable depending on your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2000 Share Posted December 2, 2000 Actually the motor is a fresh rebuild..stock.. it runs good in the winter until I mash the throttle... In the summer if i pull out a bit fast from a light it pings. Gas is only 92 octane here(high test) and the road temp is up to 150 degrees in the summer. Im running a 4 row radiator. Its just too dang hot here!!!!!! Need more octane!!!!<BR> If anyone has a kit they wish to sell let me know. I may have to modify it or whatever but at least I will have the basics.<BR>Thanks <BR>Tom H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2000 Share Posted December 2, 2000 RLBLEEKER:<BR> Yes I am interested in your old kit. Please mail me at......oldies1955@home.com.<BR> I dont want to go the cam route as I am running 4:11 gears in the rear now and turning the motor too fast for what I need. Its a cruzzzzer. Im trying to get the pinging under control before I change rear ends.<BR>Thanks !!!!<BR>Tom H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 4, 2000 Share Posted December 4, 2000 Yah srry bud the dern cable went toast for about 3 days!!grrr ya got a mail in your box!<BR>Tom H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rlbleeker Posted December 4, 2000 Share Posted December 4, 2000 Tom, I tried to email you at oldies1955@home.com and it bounced. You can email me at rbleeker0@hotmail.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2000 Share Posted December 8, 2000 Spearco still makes them. I got some information from them, but I don't have it here at college. I can look at it and post there address and phone number in the future if you like.<P>Tomsriv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2000 Share Posted December 8, 2000 Yes please,Thank you in case bleeker cannot find the parts<BR>Tom H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 The have a website at <A HREF="http://www.spearcointercoolers.com" TARGET=_blank>www.spearcointercoolers.com</A> <BR>You can ask them for more info, because they don't have much of a picture or info.<BR>I will look for the info they sent me and post it on Friday.<BR>Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 I use alcohol injection on my '87 TR and it eliminates knock under boost up to about 21psi with 93 octane gas. Plain old isopropyl alcohol (70%-90% depending on where I get it). Alcohol actually burns, not just quenches, and increases octane. I have a small tank from a osmosis water purification system in the trunk. It has a schrader valve for air in the base and you pour the alcohol (or water) in the top then attach the pipe (copper in my case) to it. Pump it up with a cheap Wal Mart air compressor to about 90psi. It has a Nitrous Oxide solenoid then a NOS fitting with changeable jets. It's activated by a pressure Hobbs switch at 10psi boost. You could change that to be activated in some other way (vacuum? manually?). Anyway, works for me. Several alcohol injection kits are manufactured by Turbo Buick specialists that could be adapted to your purposes. See <A HREF="http://www.gnttype.org" TARGET=_blank>www.gnttype.org</A> and search the archives for alcohol injection.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Keith Hansen<BR>'87TR<BR>12.34@113.33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2000 Share Posted December 21, 2000 Tom, water injection properly installed will definitely help to eliminate your pinging problem. I have used the Edelbrock water injection system on three different 70 Buicks with 455 engines. All told I have racked up near 75,000 miles using water injection on these cars. I am currently using one and as yet have not experienced any problems. If you decide to use one be sure that your water reservoir is mounted low enough so that when parked on a steep hill water won't syphon into your engine. Early Edelbrock systems had two adjustments--- one for vacuum and one for RPM. The adjustments allowed you to set the conditions when the water was to be injected. I believe this was preset on later systems. One word of advice if using the Edelbrock system. Later bulletins from Edelbrock suggest mounting the control unit inside the car to prevent device failure. Another suggestion: You need to be sure that your distributor's mechanical and vacuum advances are working properly. Check for too much 'total' advance. For my current 455 I found that an initial ignition setting of 3 degrees BTDC gave the best results with premium fuel. Another alternative would be to lower the compression. Doing this will give you a slight drop in performance and economy. Hope this is of some help to you.<BR>Good luck!<BR>Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2000 Share Posted December 21, 2000 Yes Jerry Thank you It does help. I am getting a set up from Bleeker. Hes gathering all the parts up.<BR> Tks for the advice!I will probably need one for my 425 nailhead also when that gets built up.<BR>Tom H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2000 Share Posted December 22, 2000 Hi Tom:<BR>I thought I might mention several other things you could try in eliminating pinging or spark knock. First, a 180 degree thermostat. This will lower combustion chamber temp somewhat. I would not go any lower because of possibility of sludge buildup in the engine. Then a set of dual exhaust. This will help in the scavaging of exhaust byproducts, namely 'heat'. And lastly, the elimination of combustion chamber hot spots by a light grinding and polishing. You could try this on future engine builds.<BR>Good Luck.<BR>Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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