engine noise?

[Byromax]

My 2.2 8v has rumble noise in the engine.

I thought it was the lifters but after changing the oil pump I noticed it more in the crank area.

I have to admit I dont know a lot about typical (what's normal and whats not.)sounds this typ of engine makes?

I do remember my mother in laws old 2.5 making a rumble.

Can anyone tell me if this is normal or do I need to be concerned?

Ialso noticed under turbo my air turnes to heat it some how defaults to open the heat valve and my air cant make up the differance. can anyone lead me to resolve these questions.

Thanks.

[TwinCamFan]

The 2.5 motors have a very short skirt design on the piston (to clear that long stroke crank) that leads to 'piston slap' noise at a much lower mileage than a 2.2 Usually it's worst in that first 3-4 seconds at cold start up. If a 2.2 is making that same sort of sound, I'd pull the rod bearing caps... Although to me you sound like a guy who would know rod knock when he hears it. Compression check out alright? I had a the little wire circlip that holds the piston pin in place go missing before. Drove it like that gently for 3-4 weeks before I discoverd the wrist pin was banging inot the cylinder wall <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Alan

[Guest Jeffn]

I had a wristpin in a small block that slid out and grooved the cylinder about 1/4" before problems arose...

[Byromax]

The compression is good.

I think I have found the noise i pulled the valve cover and it sounds like the problem is there.

Now knowing that I'm not sure what to do about it.

I cant see anything obvious,all of the rollers look good,no worn places on the cam.(none i can see without pulling it)

I dont know if it is in the journals or the cam bearings.

I did see a new Clevite cam at Northern auto parts but it has .020 oversize Bearing journals and i dont know what that would in tale. Do any of you guys have any Ideas on what i should do without BREAKING Tne Bank.

[Guest LouZ]

An old trick we used to use was to take a piece of wood (one without any loose splinters) and cut to a size that is comfortable to push on, but not too large to interfere with more than 1 valve at the time. with the engine idleing 1st push a little pressure on the valve end, then on the roller end.. If you hit the bad rocker the noise will stop. Next the valve spring, put a screwdriver in the space in between spring coils, twist it to put pressure on the coils, again if you hit a bad one the noise will stop... Good luck,, Lou <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[Byromax]

Thanks,Louz

If it stops raining here Ill try that.The only problem is the oil bath me and the car will take.Do you think I should just replace the cam hydraulic adjusters and roller arms?I cant stand to half way do something.This engine was supposed to have been rebuilt about 10000 miles ago.But that was taking the guys word on it.They may have used old at the time good parts too? If I find the problem is a spring or worn roller rocker would you know where I could order a new set?

Thanks again.

[TwinCamFan]

If the noise you describe is more like a tick tick tick sound then yeah, suspect a lifter (lash adjuster) The rollers should always be in contact with the base circle of the cam, if you have one that you can easily move into/out of contact with the cam, then that is you bad lifter. I have used J-yard lifters in a pinch but you can get them by the onesies for about $8. each from a parts store. You wnt have to pull the cam to replace them if you just overcome the valvespring pressure enough to slide the rocker off to the side with a suitable implement. best to have an extra set of hands for that trick. If you are removing the cam, do each cap a bit at a time or the spring pressure can bend the cam. Try to get a name brand lifter like Melling if possible. The over size journal would require substantial machine work and I don't advise it. if you do remove the rockers to change lifters or whatever, try to turn the cam over by hand (belt removed) it should turn freely with no binding or 'hard spots' if it does bind, the head has been overheated and you have a serious warpage issue. OFten times machine shops when remanufacturing a head will cut the face nice and flat but the warp will still exist in the cam journal alignment. SOme shops specialize in heating/realigning by pressing them back into shape but it is nearly easier to find another head to work with.

The stock rollers can crack but basic inspection of each should reveal that esily, usually they break clean in half at the race for the bearing ( the pin) and then you are running on three cylinders.

I can see how the wood prybar trick would work but there is SO MUCH oil splashing around even at idle, I don't recommend it. I fabbed up a 'windowed' valve cover for just such diagnostics years ago and it was still a big mess <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I still have that old cover, maybe I'll send it to Lou as I don't have any more 8V cars <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Alan

[Guest LouZ]

Hey Alan,

Don't do me no favors. At 71 & arthritic, (new hip. new shoulder, pills for spine) I might remember the old tricks, but someone else has to do them <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, Lou

p.s. Sometimes I don't even remember Good <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Byromax]

All rite gentlemen went off the deep end and called Cindy at FWD performance.She recommended A F1 cam package (NEW cam,new roller lifters,high rpm adjusters.)I bought because I may be poor but Im easy.She said it would arive Wednesday depending on work,weather and general laziness I hope to have the install done by next weekend.Do you guys have any more suggestions on anything I should check while its apart?I will turn without belt to check for binding.Thanks Twin cam fan.(great idea) Thanks again.

[Guest LouZ]

Go for it !! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Good Luck, <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Lou <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[TwinCamFan]

If you are replacing the cam, lifters, and rockers and your noise is in the top end, you will likely have it resolved.

If you are doing all that, it would be nice to have fresh valve seals... There is a tool (blue point makes one, Snap On makes one) that can remove the valve springs and retainers while the head is still on the car. It does involve compressed air (although I have talked to some who have fed a few feet of small cord/rope into the spark plug hole then turned the motor to Top Dead Center)to hold the valves shut but once springs are off, seals are very easy to change. A bit involved and you need the tool but it would probably only add an hour or so if the cam is already out. Fresh seals can solve some oil consumption issues or make a marginal car pass emissions testing.

Alan

[Byromax]

You know I thought about that But Ive never replaced them while the head was on.I would definitely go with compressed air although I'm not sure how to keep the air seal on the cylinder I'm working on at the time? do they make threaded connections for the spark plug hole? This car doesn't use a lot of oil but that's still the rite way to go.( I'm trying to convince myself) Well why I'm at it should I replace the springs Or do you think that is unnecessary? Does this tool you were speeking of take care of the problem with keeping the cylinder charged with air so I dont drop a valve?

Thanks.

[TwinCamFan]

Yep, that tool comes with the air fitting exactly as you surmised.... Once I used too much line presure and the motor began to turn over with the air <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Scared me a bit.

The turbo springs hold up pretty well unless you are going with a much bigger cam. They are not part of FWD's STG I package? Then they must not be reccomending changing them...

Alan