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413 V8 ???

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I never knew Chrysler ever built a 413 V8. Can someone tell me what years and models they were used in.

Piston diameter and distance of pin from top of piston. Flat top pistons???

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The 413 was introduced in the late 50's and was the "big" engine for the New Yorker & Imperial until 65. In 66 the 440 was introduced. I'm not sure about the type pistons and other technical questions you asked, but I'm sure someone else will add that info.

The 413 was also used in truck & motor home chassis until the late 70's. It was a very good engine! The basis for the original Max Wedge engines in 62 & 63.

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The 413 debuted in '59 and ran through '65 in the Chrysler New Yorker, 300, and Imperial.

Bore for the 413 is 4.188"... oversizes were available up to .060"

Will have to dig out my '60 Chrysler shop manual for the "crown to piston-pin" distance.

They are flat-top pistons.

(Be advised, if you're thinking of using 413 pistons as a "cheap" substitute for another make, they ain't so cheap anymore... or common.)

The Chrysler 413 is a fine engine... tons of torque.

<img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

(My '60 Windsor has what is essentially an "under-bored 413": the RB-383; used in Chrysler Windsor & Saratoga ONLY, 1959 & '60 ONLY... talk about pricey pistons!)

All the B / RB motors were "wedge design", first example was the De Soto B-350 in 1958, revised as the B-361 for '59.

The main difference between the B and RB motors is the "deck height" and stroke: the RB-motors have a deck/stroke that is 3/8" longer than their B cousins. The RB motors also have larger diameter rod journals.

The RB-block was also adapted to become the 426 Hemi.

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Thanks Frank and Bob. Yes, i'd heard that the 413 pistons would fit the Packard V8's. The 352 Packard is a 4 inch bore, 374 Packard V8 has a 4.125 bore. Pistons have a 2.072 inch pin to deck height. Flat tops.

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DeSoto Frank--the 413 pistons may not be cheap, but at least they are available, which is not the case with V8 packard pistons. We can buy billet-machined pistons from the "E" company, but they aren't the same as cast invar-strut OE pistons. What would you venture to guess a set of 8 Chrysler 413 pistons (as above) would cost?

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Price? Post a "wanted" to Moparts.com. 7000 members, you'll find some. Or, go to the Q&A and ask for a source.

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Mr. PB,

Depends on how much the "300" boyz willing to pay for them these days... Probably "way too rich for my blood"...

( Kind of like trying to buy parts for the '46-'48 Chrysler eights; you have to pay "Town & Country prices"...)

When I had my RB-383 torn-down to overhaul in '05( due to bearing destruction from failed headgasket allowing coolant to contaminate the oiling system. Previous owner had no clue... just kept adding coolant and driving until the "man with a hammer" started inside the motor... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> ) the machine shop informed me that the cylinder walls showed less than .003" taper ( shop manual allows .010" before mandating a re-bore), so the shop recommended knurling the piston skirts and honing the cylinders, along with the requisite crank work, cam bearings, and such.

The only pistons I could find of the shelf at the time were from Egge, at $450... I did not find any sets of NOS pistons at that time.

If I were going to rebore one, I would look for NOS factory pistons or go to Ross for forged.

The "B" motors did use a 4.125 piston ( the B-383 that ran from '58-'7?), and these pistons are still common and "cheap" ( but not Small-block- Chevy-cheap!)

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never knew Chrysler ever built a 413 V8. Can someone tell me what years and models they were used in.

Piston diameter and distance of pin from top of piston. Flat top pistons??? </div></div>

Never heard of the Max Wedge??? Where were you in 62? <g>

First 413 was 1959. Last passenger car 413 was 1965, replaced by 440 for 66 (413 was replaced in mid size cars by 426 in 63). Motor homes continued to use 413s for several years.

The only readily available off-the-shelf 413 pistons are cast and are only going to have a compression height of 2.00 (sealed power) or 2.019 (Silvolite). Regardless of the advertised CR of these pistons, they end up quite a ways below deck on a 413 (.080 in mine). Some of the original HC forged pistons would have had significantly more CH (compression ratios of 11:1 or 13.5:1 in 413 max wedges), but AFAIK, there are no off-the-shelf forged pistons for a 413 today. As for the pin diameter, many racers run .990 pins, but the standard Mopar big block pin diameter is 1.094.

BTW, a 383 bore is 4.25 - same as a 426. 361s had a 4.125 bore - same as the big Packard. Don't have the CH info on them at hand, though.

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I do NOT know why anybody would need a forged piston for a street engine, especially a stock-spec engine. If you go to the www.kb-silvolite.com website, you'll find LOTs of interesting information on pistons and other engine items--more than you'd ever suspect.

When I went in there, using the drop-down menu for "Products" and then "Pistons", and then "By Manufacturer", the "Chrysler brands", and then "By Diameter" (or size), you end up with a list of all Chrysler pistons for various applications, with pictures and spec. The only 413 piston listed is for "truck" applications, but there is a detailed picture with detailed specs on the piston itself and also the rings that fit it.

I'd highly recommend that anybody needing pistons look around on that website first, unless the ones needed are more "speciality" than normal stock-type items. If something other than stock-type cast pistons are needed, the "KB" section (meaning "Keith Black") has the hypereutectic pistons which will use cast piston clearances with strength approaching forged pistons.

A key consideration is that in all metallic interfaces, there is usually one of the "unlike" metals that will sacrifice itself to keep the other one from being worn or damaged. In this case, the softer piston can wear and keep the cylinder block's bore from being overly worn, rather than being hammered by a harder piston (and the greater clearances needed to run forged pistons).

Now, if we take the 413 bore of 4.188 and go .060" over, that's basically 4.25" bore diameter, really 4.248", but if you're going to bore the block anyway, that little bit would not matter as you'd bore and finish hone "to size" rather than "to spec".

There are also other piston websites not related to the old car hobby per se, which also have listings and specs if you might be looking for an "alternative" piston. One would be the Sealed Power website, too.

A reason that Ross became a larger supplier of B/RB Chrysler pistons is their weight. When you add up the spec weight of a B/RB (especially a 440!) piston, and the weight of the piston pin, seems like it can get to about 1000+ grams real quick, which is a huge amount of weight for a drag race motor to have slinging around on the end of a connecting rod. Enter Ross and their lightweight pistons, into which you can used smaller piston pins to get a lot of reciprocating weight "out" of the motor, resulting in more power getting to the flywheel.

When you get into the kb-silvolite.com website and look around at the various links and tech items, you might find much more interesting stuff in there then you ever expected about engines. Being an "informed shopper" is always a good thing, plus looking around at the other piston manufacturer websites (other than specific "hobby" suppliers, with all due respect).

I checked RockAuto.com and they show Sealed Power pistons for the '59 Chrysler New Yorker 413 for about $70.00 each. Some specs (compression distance and crown style) are also listed. When I tried for a Sealer Power online catalog, that venture didn't work out as I wanted it to.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

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NXT and guys, thanks for the info. I know that Packard V-8 was the original poster on this, but we Packard V-8 guys are starting to need to line up suppliers as our engines age and wear. OE pistons for these engines are unobtanium, no more to be had, and the only real option we've had is the "E" company's product. I think V-8 and I are on the same page, we would like to find a big-three piston that fits that would allow us to buy a well engineered set of pistons for our engines. One thing Packard did in much of their engineering is design for smoothness and silence of operation. I have heard rebuilt engines using "those" pistons that are pretty noisy cold--not happy until they are warmed up. will look at these sites.

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A cast piston should be quiet at all times, unless there is too much skirt clearance. A cast piston generally needs about .002" clearance whereas forged aluminum pistons need about .004" (which will be a little noisey when cold).

I do know of a situation where a set of TRW pistons for a Pantera (Ford V-8) has an incorrect alloy in them. When first put in, they were quiet, but got noisey after several thousand miles. TRW ended up warrantying about three sets of those pistons. This was about 10 years ago. Seems they were "shrinking" with use, enough to get noisey. The engine builder/machinist was an accomplished engine builder and did the machine work correctly, so that was not a factor.

It's always better to try to get an in-production piston to deal with than probably getting one custom built . . . unless it's a special-use race motor (where Ross comes in, typically). A key thing would be the piston weight as it would need to be reasonably close to the original Packard piston so you would not have to do many "theatrics" in getting the rotating assembly balanced with the new piston. The other thing would be the "compression distance" and piston pin diameter (which Ross could do well, too).

I suspect that there's enough meat in the Packard block to allow for the normal .060" overbore?

I'm curious as to if there also might be a way to use non-Packard connecting rods if needed? Without getting some custom-forged? Just curious about a real "outside of the spec" deal. I'll admit this is new territory to consider, but I know that in some cases, the original application is not as important as what the sizing might be.

Another source for Chrysler 413 information is the National Hot Rod Association database. They have piston part numbers which they "approve" for an engine that they allow to race in their eliminations at national meets. You might be able to find that on their website, but it is usually updated and published (not for all engines at once!) in "The National Dragster" newspaper they publish. This might be an additional place to look for 413 pistons, but most will probably be for the 413 drag race motors of the early 1960s--they might all be forged pistons rather than cast, though).

Since the focus of this deal is Chrysler 413s, you might also look in one of the major Mopar magazines for race piston sources (which would probably include a Ross ad). Where the Ross pistons usually come in is due to their lighter weight than the standard Chrysler-type piston (their original claim to fame). There's also a guy in the upper midwest that owns Hughes Engines. I met him at a Mopar Nats in Indy, in the later 1990s. He's a pretty sharp guy, so he might have some ideas and possible sources for pistons that would not cost a huge amount of money, which you might use.

When you go prospecting, having the original Packard specs on the pistons might be good to have with you. Piston Pin diameter, bore diameter, compression distance, valve cut-out reliefs, piston crown configuration (flat, dished, beveled, etc.), weight of the bare piston (with or without the piston pin installed). Finding an old "embedded" machine shop and/or auto supply with very vintage paper catalogs might be good, if you can, whose catalogs might yield old part numbers and manufacturers whose part numbers might be crossed with other piston manufacuters--buy I guess some of y'all have already done that (I went back and re-read the orig posts after I wrote this).

On the compression height . . . one of the prior posts noted a difference between two different brands of pistons. What happened was when high lead fuels started vanishing, some piston makers started making their pistons (and the 10.0+ CR engines they were in) more low-octane-tolerant by decreasing the compression distance, effectively lowering the compression ratio slightly. That probably explains the .020" (basically) difference in the two brands. Such a small loss in CR would not be felt, but would allow more-normal spark advance to be used with existing fuels (back when 91 Pump Octane was "the best").

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

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