Jump to content

Small Emblem 65 GS Question


Guest BJM

Recommended Posts

I have seen more then a few posts refer to the 65 Riviera GS "small emblem" version as seeming to be more desirable then the large GS emblem version.

Why is this? Is the small emblem version built is much lower numbers? Are there any other differences?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK Jake: Here's my take on this one. The small emblem one is affectionately refferred to as a "Baby Grand". I believe it was an early production thing much like the script on a 66 Wildcat (most 66 Wildcats featured WILDCAT in letters). As far as more value....yes there is more mythology and in my book mythology adds up to $0.00.

I've read that the 64 Riviera doesn't habe the BUICK emblem or the tri-shield emblem on the body because the Buick people wanted this car to be known as a Riviera. I personally thought that odd. perhaps similar mentality contributed to the evolution of the Riviera Grand Sport.

One last thing. I have owned my 65 Riv GS since 1976. It was my dream car in High School and I got a chance to ride in a new one when I was a teenager. For a kid to like Buicks in that era was kind of a rogue thing and for Buick, my brand,to come out with such an awsome car I was really taken!

Mitch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest imported_65gs76limited

Jake,it's early production and i believe only in Dec,64.Tom Mooney has been tracking the small emblem cars trying to get a guess-ta-ment on total production numbers.I hope he sees this and will chime in with his knowledge on the subject.Something like 325 or 350 cars produced and from what i've heard the cars are worth more. Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting comments. Not even sure why Buick would go to a larger GS emblem unless it was shared with the GS Skylark, which I don't think it was. It is interesting to note that it is one of the 1st things an owner or seller mentions, if it is a small emblem car - it would as you say, be an early production car.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Hi Jake,

We dont know the exact number of Baby Grans produced but when making some very straightforward assumptions we can guesstimate approxiamately 350 cars were produced by the end of Dec `64. It seems the transition from the original issue small emblems to the larger 2nd type emblems was made over the holiday break at the year end `64. One of the 2nd type emblems is the same as used on the Skylark GS cars so there was some financial/logistical incentive due to parts interchange that may have been a consideration. Otherwise, I`m sure the change was a design decision for cosmetic reasons.

The early emblem cars are obviously rarer but I have not seen a substantial effect on values. I think any preference for the first or second types is purely in the eyes of the beholder. Hope this helps,

Tom Mooney ROA #56

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 12 years later...

These are indeed very rare although they are slept on for value and rarity, I actually own one of these with every single manufacturer and dealer option, I also have the compass that is very rare and it is impossible to estimate what it is even worth considering rarity and what not. Probably a very rare car I am in possession of but won’t receive its full worth if I were to sell which is u fortunate 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bondzmen said:

These are indeed very rare although they are slept on for value and rarity, I actually own one of these with every single manufacturer and dealer option, I also have the compass that is very rare and it is impossible to estimate what it is even worth considering rarity and what not. Probably a very rare car I am in possession of but won’t receive its full worth if I were to sell which is u fortunate 

Sounds really cool. Do you have any Holiday pictures to show?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The small emblems are a bit more subtle but it is all a matter of personal preference.  I like the placement of the small emblem on the rear of the car because it mimics those mounted on the fenders.  To me, it has a more coordinated look.  As far as values go, I don't think there is a measurable difference between the small or large emblem cars.  Overall condition and options will dictate what the car is worth. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Bondzmen said:

These are indeed very rare although they are slept on for value and rarity, I actually own one of these with every single manufacturer and dealer option, I also have the compass that is very rare and it is impossible to estimate what it is even worth considering rarity and what not. Probably a very rare car I am in possession of but won’t receive its full worth if I were to sell which is u fortunate 

To quote Ed Raner...........If there are no photographs it didn't happen!

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, telriv said:

Doesn't have ALL the options. I don't see any RALLY'S.   Got any pics of the data plate on the firewall???  Interior pics??? etc. etc.

Bondzmen claimed his has all the options, not me. But I do have the Road wheels for it too. I’m just showing a good example of what a small emblem looks like.

FD539451-058B-4E6D-AE56-8565A7F69586.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My guess, and a guess only, is that Buick changed to the larger Gran Sport emblems at the end of '64 to make the car more identifiable on the street.  The GS option was almost $300, a fair chunk of change those days, so bolder brand identification was likely tried to boost sales.  The UAW began a nationwide strike against GM on Sept 26, 1964, just as the new '65's were introduced, including the new Riviera Gran Sport.  Here from a New York Times article published that day:
 

The strike halted domestic vehicle production at General Motors, which had been turning out about 16,100 cars and 2,600 trucks daily. The company had produced about 300,000 of its 1965 models, which were introduced in dealer showrooms yesterday. About 125,000 of its 1964 models were still unsold at the dealers. A spokesman said General Motors dealers would probably run out of 1965 models in about 12 days and all cars in 18 to 20 days.

 

This GM strike lasted until October 25, 1964.  Perhaps the Buick marketing managers kept busy coming up with ways to spur sales once production resumed after the strike.  Bolder branding of the Riviera GS was probably a result, including the larger "Gran Sport" emblems.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My Dad's 65 Riviera which he ordered in July 1964 was the only 65 Riviera that the dealership got in before the strike.

They lied to my Dad telling him that it didn't come in so they could keep it on the showroom floor to  show potential customers.

This ruse went on for two weeks until my Dad dropped by the dealer to check on the order and saw his car on the showroom floor.

At first the salesman actually tried to convince him that the car was not his, even though it was the exact colors and options that he had ordered.

Eventually they admitted that it was his car and we picked it up the next day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Seafoam65 said:

My Dad's 65 Riviera which he ordered in July 1964 was the only 65 Riviera that the dealership got in before the strike.

They lied to my Dad telling him that it didn't come in so they could keep it on the showroom floor to  show potential customers.

This ruse went on for two weeks until my Dad dropped by the dealer to check on the order and saw his car on the showroom floor.

At first the salesman actually tried to convince him that the car was not his, even though it was the exact colors and options that he had ordered.

Eventually they admitted that it was his car and we picked it up the next day.

Jeez, talk about questionable ethics and poor customer service!

I hope your Dad took his future automobile business elsewhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Seafoam65 said:

My Dad's 65 Riviera which he ordered in July 1964 was the only 65 Riviera that the dealership got in before the strike.

They lied to my Dad telling him that it didn't come in so they could keep it on the showroom floor to  show potential customers.

This ruse went on for two weeks until my Dad dropped by the dealer to check on the order and saw his car on the showroom floor.

At first the salesman actually tried to convince him that the car was not his, even though it was the exact colors and options that he had ordered.

Eventually they admitted that it was his car and we picked it up the next day.

Good story Winston.

 

Is your dad's car the '65 you own today?  What options did your dad special order from the factory?

 

Love those old car stories...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

      No, my Dad decided to sell the car in 1986. I wanted to buy it......I loved that car.....I learned to drive in it in 1967 and used it

in high school on special occasions. My first wife would not agree to my purchasing it, so my Dad wound up selling it to a guy in

my Pontiac club. He only had it a few months when he started having electrical problems where the car would just cut out and die intermittently.

After trying everything he could think of he got frustrated and sold it to another guy in my Pontiac club, who quickly figured out that the clamshell

motor was shorting out intermittently causing all the problems. New relays and a motor fixed it right up. Right after that, a relative from Ohio called,

saying he had a friend who was looking for a 65 Buick Riviera, but all the ones up in Ohio were rustbuckets and would he be willing to sell the car to

him. He was offered substantially more than he had paid for it so he flipped it and it left Texas for Ohio. The car was a nice solid 100K car with the only rust 

being in the rear window channel, with no dents and in need of a paint job. The interior was still very nice. It was Arctic White with a saddle base interior.Options were power trunk release, AM radio with rear speaker, rear armrest, floor mats, tinted glass, A/C, and wire wheel covers. The guy who bought it said he was going to completely restore it and change the exterior to black. After I divorced my first wife in 1990, I started looking for the car to buy it back, but the  relative of the guy who sold it had passed away and we had no idea who to contact or where the car was. I looked online for the car for many years and finally gave up and bought my Seafoam Green

car in 2013. I'd still like to find the car......I'm fairly certain that the VIN was 494475H900633. Here are some pics of the car. The first one is me and my Mom standing in front of the car on Easter Sunday 1965.......The second is a pic of my younger brother in front of it in 1967. The other pics are from right before it went to Ohio in 1986. You'll notice in the interior pic that it was built with a 1964 glove box Riviera emblem from the factory. I figure the car was built in the first week of production.

SAVE0002.JPG

SAVE0001.JPG

SAVE0005.JPG

SAVE0004.JPG

SAVE0003.JPG

Edited by Seafoam65 (see edit history)
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That car is a 421 Tri Power 4 speed Bonneville convertible that his Mom bought new. He still has it and finished

a frame off resto on it 5 years ago. It has a white leather interior and the exterior color is the same as my Seafoam Green

Riviera only Pontiac called it Palmetto Green. It is indeed an awesome car. The trunk on that car is larger than the bed on an S10 pickup.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Winston,

 

Great story on the '65 Riv your Dad bought brand new.  I'm sure that car is out there... somewhere.  Perhaps one day you'll be reunited with it.  I've always loved 1st Gen Rivieras painted white.  Very classy.

 

Happy New Year!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/4/2007 at 3:20 PM, 1965rivgs said:

Hi Jake,

We dont know the exact number of Baby Grans produced but when making some very straightforward assumptions we can guesstimate approxiamately 350 cars were produced by the end of Dec `64. It seems the transition from the original issue small emblems to the larger 2nd type emblems was made over the holiday break at the year end `64. One of the 2nd type emblems is the same as used on the Skylark GS cars so there was some financial/logistical incentive due to parts interchange that may have been a consideration. Otherwise, I`m sure the change was a design decision for cosmetic reasons.

The early emblem cars are obviously rarer but I have not seen a substantial effect on values. I think any preference for the first or second types is purely in the eyes of the beholder. Hope this helps,

Tom Mooney ROA #56

Do we know when the very first Gran Sport Rivi was made? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Rivdrivn said:

Do we know when the very first Gran Sport Rivi was made? 

Hi Steve,

  I believe that Andy Starr`s Samoan Bronze car is the earliest documented example. I have period press quotes from Ed Rollert regarding both the Skylark and Riviera GS cars but they are somewhat contradicatory and contradict the existence of Andy`s car. The cars tell the real story and not the paper....keep in mind the strike no doubt significantly reshuffled the GM deck,

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't there a Gran Sport registry that is maintained by an ROA member?  In the Riview,  think it's listed on the page with the tech advisors and other registries. Perhaps he can at least give you an idea of the earliest Gran Sport he has registered without disclosing any personal information. Or perhaps one of his registry questions deals with the size of the rear emblem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...